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Muspellsheimr
A list of new spells I am working on for one of my characters.

Please post if you think the spells are balanced, underpowered, or overpowered, & why. Suggestions on changes to balance them appreciated.

EDIT: Added By-the-Book drain values, added the spell Gelid Aura. Now looking primarily on advice for any Ad-Hoc drain values.
EDIT 2: Adjusted the wording of spells, modified my listed thoughts on spells.
EDIT 3: Added Ad-Hoc drain values for spells, added two spell concepts - prevent healing & monitor health.

Health Spells

Contagion (Negative)
Type: M Test: O (BOD) Range: T Duration: P DV: (Force / 2) + 3

This spell infects the subject with a Pathogen. A version of the spell exists for each pathogen. The pathogens power is equal to the spells Net Hits, and affects the subject immediately upon becoming permanent (initial onset unresisted), but otherwise follows the normal rules for that pathogen. No pathogen inflicted with this spell is incurable, but if no known antidote exists, must be overcome with a bodies natural resistance.

Net Hits can also be used to reduce the base time for the spell to become permanent; each hit spent this way shaves off one Combat Turn (hits can be split between power and reducing time as the caster desires).
Drain: (F / 2)
+1 - Physical
-2 - Touch
+0 - Sustained
+2 - Negative Effect
+2 - Ad-Hoc: Reason Unknown


Spell is Physical because it 'creates' living organisms. Initial onset unresisted, once the spell becomes permanent, essentially means the pathogen has a power of the spells hits, and the initial resistance test is Body+Counterspelling, made before the pathogen even takes effect.

Has high industrial and bio-warfare potential, but otherwise a fairly weak spell due to the long time intervals of pathogens. +2 Ad-Hoc drain to compensate for the versatility of pathogens. In-game "legitimate" reason needed for increased drain (game balance & 'it just does' do not count)



[Pathogen/Toxin] Immunity
Type: P Test: S Range: T Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) -2

This spell grants the subject Hardened Armor against pathogens or toxins equal to (Hits x 2). This spell does not reverse the effects of previous exposure, although may alleviate the side effects, at the game masters discretion. This spell will not cure the subject of a disease, although if sustained during a resistance test will help the subject overcome the disease. A separate version of this spell exists for each pathogen and toxin.
Drain: (F / 2)
+0 - Mana
-2 - Touch
+0 - Sustained


Mana spell because it increases immune system instead of modifying it. Duplicates the effect of the Immunity power against the selected pathogen/toxin, using Hits in place of Magic. May need +1 to +2 Ad-Hoc drain modifier.



Regeneration
Type: M Test: S Range: T Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) + 4

This spell accelerates the subjects natural rate of healing, allowing for rapid regeneration of damage. A the end of each Combat Turn, the subject makes a Body + (Spells Hits) test. Each hit heals 1 point of Physical or Stun damage. If the subject has already taken enough damage to enter into Physical Damage Overflow, the subject is not considered dead until it has had a chance to make a Regeneration Test. After a subject has mad a Regeneration Test, if the damage overflow is still greater than the subject's Body attribute, then the subject is dead.

Some damage cannot be healed with this spell. Damage to the brain or spinal cord (from a called shot to the head, for example) cannot be healed this way. Damage from Drain cannot be healed with this spell. If the subject has an Allergy, damage cannot be healed until the allergen's presence is removed. Finally, wounds affected by another healing spell cannot be further healed with this spell, and wounds affected by this spell cannot be further healed with another healing spell or First Aid.
Drain: (Force / 2)
+0 - Mana Spell
+0 - Sustained Duration
-2 - Touch Range
+2 - Ad Hoc; Heals Stun Damage
+4 - Ad Hoc; Prevents Death


Duplicates the Regeneration power, using Hits in place of Magic. Further, it has the additional ability to heal damage from magical sources, but is restricted by the normal limits of multiple healing spells.

An obviously powerful spell, this is the only one to have been tested in-game, and I am looking for a way to reduce it's power somewhat without making the spell underpowered or leaving the basic concept. I would rather not remove the ability to affect magical damage as I believe the power should also not have that restriction.



Regrowth
Type: M Test: S Range: T Duration: P DV: (Damage Value) + 2

This spell restores the body to its full genetic health template. The spell will restore damaged organs and re-grow severed limbs (including the spine). The casters hits must equal the damage value of the desired regrowth, as shown on the following table (add the values together for multiple regeneration effects in a single casting).

The forced regrowth is excruciating for the subject. If the damage value exceeds the targets Willpower, the target is rendered helpless. Otherwise, the subject suffers a -2 modifier to all actions (treat as nausea, p. 245 SR4) for the duration of the spell. The -2 nausea penalty persists for a number of minutes after equal to (Damage Value - Willpower). If the caster does not meet the required number of successes, the spell fails and the caster must resist drain as normal. Implants that may be easily removed from the body may be rejected, at the game masters discretion, if the magician is unaware of their presence. This rarely ruins the implant (it may be re-installed with no penalty).

DV
1: Skin/Hair
2: Finger/Toe
4: Eye
6: Organ (non-vital)
8: Organ (vital)
6: Hand/Foot
8: Full Limb
12: Spinal Cord
+2: Target has healed (naturally or magically)
-half: Re-attaching severed limb.
Drain: (Damage Value)
+0 - Mana Spell
+0 - Permanent Duration (Health Spell)
-2 - Touch Range
+4 - Ad Hoc; Regenerates organs/limbs


A powerful spell, it is limited by the high drain value, high number of successes required, and limited usefulness. It is designed primarily to avoid spending months in gene therapy when someone looses a limb & cannot or will not get a cybernetic replacement. It's tendency to incapacitate the subject also limits it's use on the caster.



Wither (Negative)
Type: P Test: O (BOD) Range: T Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) + 1

This spell causes the subjects body to begin consuming itself. For each Net Hit on the spellcasting test, the subject takes one point of Physical damage at the beginning of each Combat Turn (unresisted). Every (Force) Combat Turns, the subject may make a new Body + Counterspelling Test, reducing the spells Net Hits by hits achieved. If the spells hits are reduced to 0, the spell ends.
Drain: (F / 2)
+1 - Physical
-2 - Touch
+0 - Sustained
+2 - Negative


Wither has the advantage of potentially being able to cause massive damage at any Force, with the disadvantage of it being slow to do so. In most combat situations, combat spells are strictly better. This spell was designed primarily for flavor purposes.

Cannot be classified as a Combat spell - Combat spells cannot, by RAW, have a sustained duration. The ability to cause sustained damage is balanced (partially or fully - undecided) by removing Force from the damage code.


Manipulation Spells

[Element] Immunity
Type: P Test: S Range: T Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) +1

This spell grants the subject Hardened Armor against elemental attacks equal to (Hits x 2). The subject receives the full rating against effects normally resisted with half Impact. A separate version of the spell exists for each element.
Drain: (F / 2)
+1 - Physical
-2 - Touch
+0 - Sustained
+2 - Ad-Hoc: Elemental Effect


Duplicates the effect of the Immunity power against the selected element, using Hits in place of Magic. It has potential abuse problems due to Metal being an elemental effect (p. 164, Street Magic).

Elemental Effect drain modifier classified as Ad-Hoc due to not qualifying by RAW (requires damaging effects)



Gelid Aura
Type: P Test: S Range: - (A) Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) + 5

This spell creates an aura of arctic cold around the caster, dealing (Hits) Cold damage to everything within range at the beginning of each Combat Turn (resisted normally). This spell covers everything in its range in a thin coating of ice (follow the rules for Ice effects, p. 164 Street Magic). The caster is immune to the damage and secondary effects caused by this spell. Effects caused by the spell outside of it's dirrect control (damage & ice coating) will still affect the caster normally.
Drain: (F / 2)
+1 - Physical
-2 - Very Restricted Target (Caster Only)
+2 - Area Effect
+0 - Sustained
-2 - Environmental Manipulation
+2 - Elemental Effect (Ice)
+4 - Ad-Hoc: Caster is immune to spells effects.


To powerful without the Ad-Hoc drain modifier. To difficult to use if it affects the caster.

Cannot be classified as a Combat spell - Combat spells cannot, by RAW, have a sustained duration. The ability to cause sustained damage is balanced (partially or fully - undecided) by removing Force from the damage code.



Nullify
Type: M Test: O (WIL) Range: LOS Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) + 4

This spell creates a targeted background count in the target's aura for each Net Hit scored by the caster. As with normal background count, nullify impedes magical activities (see p. 117, Street Magic. This also affects any active bonded foci & spells on the subject, as well as spells targeting the subject while it is sustained.

Some spells targeting the subject will not be affected. Any spell that does not directly affect the subject or his aura, such as Indirect Combat attacks, will not have their Force reduced. Further, this spell will not affect any wards or barriers the subject attempts to pass through. This spell will not affect Spirits bound to the subject, Spirits attacking the subject, or spells the subject is sustaining affecting another.
Drain: (F / 2)
+0 - Mana
+0 - Line of Sight
+0 - Sustained
+4 - Ad-Hoc: Reason Undecided


It's increased versatility is balanced by it's singe-target effect and the opposed test. Drain increased to match Mana Static. In-game "legitimate" reason needed for increased drain (game balance & 'it just does' do not count)


Prevent Healing
Negative Health spell (sustained, touch, opposed). Reduce the ammount the subject is healed by Hits. This applies to all forms of healing.

Monitor Health
Detection Spell. Detect Life spell with the additional effect of identifying the subjects state of health - wounds/damage, toxins, disease, etc. Pretty much anything a biomonitor can do. Amount & detail of information gained determined by Hits.

Game stats are in the works. Suggestions on mechanics welcome. Drain to come after mechanics are worked out.
WeaverMount
On the whole it looks totally legit. My issue with Nullify is a knee jerk balance issue. You took a one of the most powerful spells in the game and did something to it. That makes me twitch. I haven't though through all the implication though. Contagion I have a little more beef with. I would honestly be ok with a mana spell that lowered resistance rolls or a mana spell that cursed people in a way that looked like a disease, but to actually infect someone you have to create a virus or bacteria. I don't really feel like that is an SR spell. Plus it would have crazy industrial application.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Apr 30 2008, 01:18 AM) *
On the whole it looks totally legit. My issue with Nullify is a knee jerk balance issue. You took a one of the most powerful spells in the game and did something to it. That makes me twitch. I haven't though through all the implication though. Contagion I have a little more beef with. I would honestly be ok with a mana spell that lowered resistance rolls or a mana spell that cursed people in a way that looked like a disease, but to actually infect someone you have to create a virus or bacteria. I don't really feel like that is an SR spell. Plus it would have crazy industrial application.


Actually, you really wouldn't have to "create" anything. There's already the 'Shapechange' spell, so we know we can transform one type of critter into another. And the healthy (meta)human body is absolutely teeming with microorganisms, both beneficial and harmful-but-held-in-check.
Cabral
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ Apr 29 2008, 09:13 PM) *
Actually, you really wouldn't have to "create" anything. There's already the 'Shapechange' spell, so we know we can transform one type of critter into another. And the healthy (meta)human body is absolutely teeming with microorganisms, both beneficial and harmful-but-held-in-check.

So essentially, it's not cause disease, it's reduce pathogen resistance. Sort of like magic AIDS. It's the AIDS that kills you, it's the pathogen you no longer have the ability to resist ...

Rather than define a specific pathogen, just make an ambiguous, contact vector pathogen that kicks in when the spell goes Permanent.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Cabral @ Apr 30 2008, 04:30 AM) *
So essentially, it's not cause disease, it's reduce pathogen resistance. Rather than define a specific pathogen, just make an ambiguous, contact vector pathogen that kicks in when the spell goes Permanent.


No, it is "cause disease". Because you're taking some random, innocuous e.coli strain, and magically transmuting it into Anthrax. Now, clearly, that Anthrax will turn back into e.coli when the spell ends - but if you sustain it long enough, it's already undergone mitosis. And its offspring won't revert, so now your target has Anthrax. Same deal with MRSI, malaria, etc. - think of it as a "polymorph germ" spell, that gets away with being stuck in the Health domain instead of the Manipulation domain because they're so small, and partially-integrated with the subject's aura.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ Apr 29 2008, 08:34 PM) *
No, it is "cause disease". Because you're taking some random, innocuous e.coli strain, and magically transmuting it into Anthrax. Now, clearly, that Anthrax will turn back into e.coli when the spell ends - but if you sustain it long enough, it's already undergone mitosis. And its offspring won't revert, so now your target has Anthrax. Same deal with MRSI, malaria, etc. - think of it as a "polymorph germ" spell, that gets away with being stuck in the Health domain instead of the Manipulation domain because they're so small, and partially-integrated with the subject's aura.


Pretty much my train of thought, and due to my inability to effectively explain crap, I thank you for doing so. And as for it being in the Health domain, I honestly think making a Health version of Shapechange would be a viable spell, but makes more sense in Manipulation. Vice-versa for Contagion.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 30 2008, 04:52 AM) *
Pretty much my train of thought, but due to my inability to effectively explain crap, I thank you for doing so. And as for it being in the Health domain, I honestly think making a Health version of Shapechange would be a viable spell, but makes more sense in Manipulation. Vice-versa for Contagion.


Exactly. One of the best things about SR4 was putting "Damaging manipulation" spells into the Combat category. The thing about spell categories is, a lot of them could go either way - Combat or Manipulation, Health or Manipulation, hell - Illusion or Manipulation (think about it - if a physical illusion spell bends light, isn't it just a 'Control Element' spell with the 'Light' elemental effect? Likewise, is an 'Illuminate' spell a Physical Illusion or a Manipulation? How about Healthy Glow?) You could really argue that there's only two fundamental categories of spell:

- Detection
- Manipulation

Three if you want 'Health' to be a seperate category from 'Manipulation'. Looking at a 3-domain system, 'Direct Combat' spells are just Health spells (they're the reverse of 'Heal' in the same way that 'Decrease Attribute' is the reverse of 'Increase Attribute'), while 'Indirect Combat' spells are just Manipulation spells. The only spells that *really* work differently than anything else are Detection spells, as they convey information instead of manipulating the environment.

But, the 5-domain system works reasonably well, too, so long as you're willing to put things where they thematically go. Which is why Damaging Manipulation spells became Indirect Combat spells, for example, but spells like 'Freeze' and 'Ice Sheet' and 'Flame Wall' didn't.
Muspellsheimr
I actually like the concept of a tri-domain spell system. But due to all the changes that would be neccesary, I don't think it will make it into any games frown.gif

I am also open to any more spell ideas. Particularly those that fall into the realms of Necromancy (life, death, life force/spirit) & Abjuration (protection & antimagic), as those are what my character uses (very focused character - will not use a weapon, and although having plenty ways of killing, cannot affect objects/drones)
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 30 2008, 05:11 AM) *
I actually like the concept of a tri-domain spell system. But due to all the changes that would be neccesary, I don't think it will make it into any games frown.gif

I am also open to any more spell ideas. Particularly those that fall into the realms of Necromancy (life, death, life force/spirit) & Abjuration (protection & antimagic), as those are what my character uses (very focused character - will not use a weapon, and although having plenty ways of killing, cannot affect objects/drones)


*nods* Actually, here's something that may help a bit:

I've stopped using the standard SR4 categories for spells altogether, except where they match the character's Tradition.

So, for my character (as an example), Fire spirits can be used to Aid Study or Aid Sorcery for any spell with an Elemental aspect of Fire. This means Fire-based combat spells, Fire-based Manipulation spells, Fire-based Illusion spells, and the like. Different kinds of spells get assigned to one type of spirit, like so:

Fire - Fire, Light, and Heat Elemental Effects
Air - Lightning, Smoke, and Blast Elemental Effects, Smell-based Illusions, invisibility-type Illusions, levitation-type Manipulations
Water - Water, Acid, and Ice Elemental Effects
Earth - Sand and Metal Elemental Effects, direct-damage spells against physical objects, physical-based Transmutation Manipulations, physical barrier spells
Wood - most Health spells, Detection spells that detect plants (or generic 'living things'), direct-damage spells against living objects
Beasts - Mana-based Transmutation Manipulations, Detection spells that detect animals
Man - Thought-based Controlling Manipulations, Detection spells that detect metahumans
Guidance - Spells involving magic (mana barriers, detect magic-type spells, etc.)
Task - Manipulation spells which repair or augment man-made objects

Now, many of these can be 'combined' if you wish. For example, Task spirits and Guidance spirits could be seen as just a special kind of Spirit of Man; Beast and Wood spirits could be lumped together as Spirits of Nature. Which gives you a neat pseudo-eastern system of six elements: Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Life, and Man.

The key here is paradigm. Ideally, each Mage's Tradition should be a full several-page write up. One thing I've always encouraged my Magician players to do: any starting Awakened character is allowed to begin the game Initiated for 5 BP, but you must take the Thesis Ordeal, and you must hand me, the GM, a copy of that Thesis, annotated with game effects - including precisely at what times your Totem/Mentor Spirit provides bonuses or penalties, precisely what kinds of Spirits, Spells and Elemental Effects correspond to each other, and why.

It really, really aids gameplay when the Awakened characters have spent a few days pre-game thinking about how their characters think about their mojo.
Muspellsheimr
Interesting idea. I may or may not use it (as I don't GM, it's more of a group choice, if I bring it up).

As for a few days pre-game deciding how the character thinks about magic, not an issue with this one. She has been my favorite character, used in multiple game systems, for several years. In Shadowrun terms, a Hermetic (very scientific) mage drawing heavy influence from Black Magic, with an obsession of the nature of Life & Death, seeking more the meaning of death than that of life, as well as ways to conquer death (prevention, immortality, & resurrection). Non-magically, a semi-follower of the Aesir, she pays homage to Odin (god of death, magic, poetry, & runes - all strong aspects of the character).

Maybe I should actually write up her tradition's specifics...

Also, if you ever get your Earthdawn/Shadowrun game going, are running it online, & I get a spot, this is the character I would be playing.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 30 2008, 06:13 AM) *
Interesting idea. I may or may not use it (as I don't GM, it's more of a group choice, if I bring it up).

As for a few days pre-game deciding how the character thinks about magic, not an issue with this one. She has been my favorite character, used in multiple game systems, for several years. In Shadowrun terms, a Hermetic (very scientific) mage drawing heavy influence from Black Magic, with an obsession of the nature of Life & Death, seeking more the meaning of death than that of life, as well as ways to conquer death (prevention, immortality, & resurrection). Non-magically, a semi-follower of the Aesir, she pays homage to Odin (god of death, magic, poetry, & runes - all strong aspects of the character).

Maybe I should actually write up her tradition's specifics...

Also, if you ever get your Earthdawn/Shadowrun game going, are running it online, & I get a spot, this is the character I would be playing.


Sounds fun. wink.gif And yes, DEFINITELY write up those specifics. All the way down to, for each spell she knows, which of the Aesir and their servants are responsible for the effect's domains.
WeaverMount
>No, it is "cause disease". Because you're taking some random, innocuous e.coli strain, and magically transmuting it into Anthrax.


I thought about that, but I would think you would need LOS to the e.coli aura, and well if you have that, well your target has bigger issues
Muspellsheimr
Working under the assumption that the e.coli aura is part of the target's aura, so you won't actually need to *see* it. Similar to how you do not need to see someone's Muscle Toner to reduce their augmented Agility with Decrease Attribute.
HentaiZonga
Hide Aura (Illusion, Single Target)
Type: Mana / Range: LOS / Duration: S / DV: -1
Mana Cloud (Illusion, Area Effect)
Type: Mana / Range: LOS / Duration: S / DV: +1
Hide Spell (Illusion, Single Specific Target)
Type: Mana / Range: LOS / Duration: S / DV: -2

Hide Aura is a spell which hides or disguises an astral aura from Assensing, in the same manner as the Initiate power of Masking. This spell may only hide or mask the auras of living beings, foci, or sustained/quickened spells with an Essence, Magic rating or Force less than or equal to this spell's Force. This spell must get a minimum number of hits equal to its own Force to hide itself (otherwise it would project a huge "HI THERE I'M HIDING SOMETHING!!!" sign to anyone who cared to assense); each further net hit reduces the number of hits for all Assensing tests by 1.

Hide Spell is a more restricted version of this spell which only works on other spells.
darthmord
The only issue I have with the Regeneration spell is that neural tissue *DOES* repair itself via natural healing processes just like the rest of the body's cells do. They just do it slower. You could easily reflect this by making any neural damage healed back cost more hits.

But, whatever works in your game. Go forth and happy shadowrun.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Apr 30 2008, 02:25 AM) *
Working under the assumption that the e.coli aura is part of the target's aura, so you won't actually need to *see* it. Similar to how you do not need to see someone's Muscle Toner to reduce their augmented Agility with Decrease Attribute.


yes, but muscle toner cost essence as is now explicitly "part of you". e.coli though is not so cut and dry. They are there own organisms, that can easy survive outside of you. They have there own genome, and reproduce separately. To me that firmly puts them on the "not part of you" side of the line.

(BTW IRL, I wouldn't even talk about this. I'm a stone cold materialists, and think that there are no sharp lines between the world and one's body. The e.coli big is just a consequence of Auras and essence)
Fortune
Personally, I wouldn't allow any of these spells in my game in their current form.
Muspellsheimr
That doesn't help much. Suggestions on how they should be altered, & Ad-Hoc drain modifiers?


QUOTE (darthmord @ Apr 30 2008, 07:38 AM) *
The only issue I have with the Regeneration spell is that neural tissue *DOES* repair itself via natural healing processes just like the rest of the body's cells do. They just do it slower. You could easily reflect this by making any neural damage healed back cost more hits.

The reason I chose for it to not heal neural damage is because it essentially duplicates the Regeneration critter power, which also does not heal neural damage. The only two differences is the spell can heal magical damage (the power should as well, but doesn't by RAW), and the spell substitutes hits for magic.
WeaverMount
QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 30 2008, 05:22 PM) *
Personally, I wouldn't allow any of these spells in my game in their current form.


Pathogen Resistance is ok
Geilded Aura or whatever is ok if you uncheese the drain code
Fortune
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ May 1 2008, 09:26 AM) *
Pathogen Resistance is ok


Shrug. True.

QUOTE
Geilded Aura or whatever is ok if you uncheese the drain code


Um ... no! A sustained, damage-causing Manipulation spell that covers a radius of Force x Meters is not something I want anywhere near my games.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 30 2008, 04:37 PM) *
Um ... no! A sustained, damage-causing Manipulation spell that covers a radius of Force x Meters is not something I want anywhere near my games.


But how else are we supposed to get our AoE dps up now that they nerfed mp cast?
HentaiZonga
Also, a thought on the Regeneration spell, given how SR healing magic works:

1. Rather than (Body + spell hits), I'd use (Force + spell hits). Additionally, I'd require a Threshold equal to the total number of wounds sustained (Stun + Physical). Each net hit beyond the threshold heals one box of Stun damage; once all Stun damage has been healed, every 2 additional net hits heal one box of Physical damage.
2. Any time the (Force + spell hits) check glitches, any wounds that haven't been healed by this spell get 'locked in', and won't be healable by this spell or any other magical means
3. While this spell is being sustained, and after this spell stops being sustained, any damage which hasn't been taken care of can not be further healed by magic.
Fortune
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 11:02 AM) *
But how else are we supposed to get our AoE dps up now that they nerfed mp cast?


If by 'mp cast' you mean multicasting, you might want to look again. Multicasting rocks if you work it right.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 30 2008, 08:01 PM) *
If by 'mp cast' you mean multicasting, you might want to look again. Multicasting rocks if you work it right.


I know; I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek, what with the mmorp-speak and all.
HentaiZonga
How's this sound for a lower-powered Regenerate spell:

Regeneration
Type: M Test: S Range: T Duration: S DV: (Force / 2) + 4

Regeneration is a powerful Health spell that constantly restores a willing subject’s health for as long as it is sustained. Each turn in which the subject is wounded, they may make a (Force + Spell hits) test vs. a threshold equal to their current number of damage boxes (Stun + Physical). Bioware and cyberware severely interfere with this process; subtract one die from this roll for each full point of Essence loss. Each net hit beyond the threshold restores one box of Stun damage. Every 2 remaining hits convert one box of Physical damage into Stun damage. This spell is not without its drawbacks and limitations, however. Any damage which is the result of Drain or Fading cannot be healed by this spell, nor can damage which has already been affected by any other Healing magics, or damage which is the result of an allergy. Direct spinal and brain injuries are also untreatable. Additionally, if this spell’s (Force + Spell hits) test glitches, any remaining damage is ‘locked in’ and may not be further healed in later turns, Additional damage, sustained after the glitch, may be affected normally – but the ‘locked in’ damage still applies when making the (Force + Spell) hits. Finally, while this spell is in effect, and after this spell has ended, any remaining damage may not be healed by any magical means – including further applications of this spell.
Muspellsheimr
The problem with that Hentai, is it becomes virtually worthless for anything other than minor wounds, which can easily be treated with Heal (significantly lower drain) or First Aid. I designed the spell with heavy-combat situations in mind, and based it off the Regenerate power. Although the bit about it not healing damage already affected by magical healing was assumed, I should probably include it in the description.

I have been using it for the last six weeks, and am aware of just how powerful it is, which is why I posted it here asking for suggestions, but it has not (yet) been a game breaker. I would like to bring it to a more reasonable level without altering the core of what it does, and without making it useless (as your thresholds would). Although I like the idea of using Force in place of Body, that would make it more powerful in normal circumstances.

QUOTE (Fortune @ Apr 30 2008, 05:37 PM) *
Um ... no! A sustained, damage-causing Manipulation spell that covers a radius of Force x Meters is not something I want anywhere near my games.

Combat spells cannot be sustained, which is why I put Wither & Gelid Aura in health & manipulation (and took Force off the damage code). I am aware that these spells still likely need adjustment, and Nullify in particular, may need a higher drain. That is my reason for posting them here to begin with asking for opinions and suggestions for Ad-Hoc (non-codified, by-the-book) drain modifiers. Nothing you have posted has addressed my questions, and so would appreciate it if you provide why you don't like them, and suggestions on how to modify them.
Fortune
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 2 2008, 05:38 AM) *
Nothing you have posted has addressed my questions, and so would appreciate it if you provide why you don't like them, and suggestions on how to modify them.


Seriously, if you can't tell just by looking at them (let alone playing with them for 6 weeks) that they are way too powerful, then nothing I say is likely to make that any clearer. It's your game, and I don't have the right to tell you how to run it. As such, my only really worthwhile comment is to state what would or would not be acceptable in my games.
Muspellsheimr
You don't seem to get it - if I thought they were all balanced as-is, I would not have posted them asking for advice on how to make them so.

While I do not see a problem with some of them, other's obviously have balance issues I am trying to fix, and you saying they would not be allowed in your game, without explaining why, or what you would alter to make them so, is not at all helping.

And in case you have not yet looked at the first page, I clarified the wording on some of them, and adjusted my thoughts on them.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 1 2008, 12:38 PM) *
The problem with that Hentai, is it becomes virtually worthless for anything other than minor wounds, which can easily be treated with Heal (significantly lower drain) or First Aid. I designed the spell with heavy-combat situations in mind, and based it off the Regenerate power. Although the bit about it not healing damage already affected by magical healing was assumed, I should probably include it in the description.

I have been using it for the last six weeks, and am aware of just how powerful it is, which is why I posted it here asking for suggestions, but it has not (yet) been a game breaker. I would like to bring it to a more reasonable level without altering the core of what it does, and without making it useless (as your thresholds would). Although I like the idea of using Force in place of Body, that would make it more powerful in normal circumstances.


Combat spells cannot be sustained, which is why I put Wither & Gelid Aura in health & manipulation (and took Force off the damage code). I am aware that these spells still likely need adjustment, and Nullify in particular, may need a higher drain. That is my reason for posting them here to begin with asking for opinions and suggestions for Ad-Hoc (non-codified, by-the-book) drain modifiers. Nothing you have posted has addressed my questions, and so would appreciate it if you provide why you don't like them, and suggestions on how to modify them.


Well, then, I'd at least keep the Essence threshold modifiers and the interference with further magical healing (as I recall, all Health spells require this), and keep the 'locking in on a glitch' mechanic and the 1 hit = 1 Stun; 2 hits = 1 Physical -> Stun system. This way, it takes 3 net hits (over 2 turns) to completely negate one box of Physical damage, without gimping it too bad. Since you're rolling Force + Hits, a typical spell (Force 5) will be rolling 7 dice per turn; this is likely to heal 2 boxes of Stun per turn, or if all Stun is gone, convert 1 box of Physical into Stun. The first time the character takes serious injuries, they're probably blowing Edge on their regeneration roll; this will push an average character into 10 exploding dice per turn, which statistically will heal 5 boxes of Stun or 2 boxes of Physical right then and there. This is significantly better than the best cyberware in the game, and means that a character virtually needs to be taken down in one hit to not be ultimately unstoppable. I'd also probably include an explicit note that the spell automatically stabilizes anyone in Overflow damage whenever it gets at least 1 net hit on the (Force + Hits) Regeneration test.
Fortune
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 2 2008, 08:22 AM) *
You don't seem to get it


I 'get it'. I just don't care to make any other, more specific comments on them at this time. I don't feel obligated to do so, and while not doing so I am still posting on topic. I don't see the problem. It isn't like I am forcing you to discard the ideas. It isn't like I am posting things detrimental to the idea or thread at hand. Others have posted points that I agree with, but having been posted I don't feel any driving need to post a 'me too' comment about it. I am simply posting my own personal opinion on the matter. If you don't like it, don't read it.

That being said, I lied! I will make a comment on Resurrection. I do not think it should be possible to heal Drain via Sorcery (or technically any Magic).
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 1 2008, 05:46 PM) *
That being said, I lied! I will make a comment on Resurrection. I do not think it should be possible to heal Drain via Sorcery (or technically any Magic).


"Resurrection" was never one of the spells I listed - although it is a spell my character is researching, that is purely for flavor and I would be extremely surprised if it makes it into any game. If you are referring to Regeneration, then it has always been listed as being unable to heal drain.
Fortune
Right, Regeneration, sorry.

As for the Drain bit, I misread one of your other posts discussing 'magical damage' and got a bit confused. As far as I know there is no mechanical difference in SR4 between 'magical damage' and 'gun damage' and 'lead pipe damage', assuming it is physical, or 'magical damage' and 'fist damage' and 'electrical damage' if it's stun. I was under the impression that Drain is the only type of 'damage' that is differenciated for healing purposes, but I may be wrong. If I am, can you give me a quote?
Muspellsheimr
The Regeneration Critter power is unable to heal "damage from a magical source" - weapon foci, spells, drain, etc. So, in that instance at least, the game does separate them. As well as the Immunity to Normal Weapons power.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 1 2008, 05:46 PM) *
I 'get it'. I just don't care to make any other, more specific comments on them at this time. I don't feel obligated to do so, and while not doing so I am still posting on topic. I don't see the problem. It isn't like I am forcing you to discard the ideas. It isn't like I am posting things detrimental to the idea or thread at hand. Others have posted points that I agree with, but having been posted I don't feel any driving need to post a 'me too' comment about it. I am simply posting my own personal opinion on the matter. If you don't like it, don't read it.

That being said, I lied! I will make a comment on Resurrection. I do not think it should be possible to heal Drain via Sorcery (or technically any Magic).


I'd also like your opinion of my re-write of it, if you feel inclined.
Fortune
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 2 2008, 11:19 AM) *
The Regeneration Critter power is unable to heal "damage from a magical source" - weapon foci, spells, drain, etc. So, in that instance at least, the game does separate them.


Fair enough. I went back and reread the post, and have come to the conclusion that I shouldn't read this thread any more without sleep.

It's not a great rule, but I can see why it is made in regards to the Power.
Muspellsheimr
Made another update to the spell list, adjusting the drain values some. I am still looking for advice on these spells - if you think they are balanced, underpowered, overpowered, and why you think so. Suggestions on changes to bring them to a balanced level are welcome.
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