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Mickle5125
What negative qualities have your characters been given by GMs? I don't mean minor crap like an addiction to BTLs... I mean crazy stuff like addiction: tentacle Porn. That was fun.

The most entertaining flaw my GM gave out, however, had to be Grim Servant of Death, which was given to the only character in our game who constantly sought nonlethal means to deal with the runs. Every time this character pulled out a weapon, something died. sometimes it was the target, sometimes it was a friend, sometimes it was the little old nun driving the bus full of orphans to the church. Granted, said character also developed a medium addiction to alcohol... ^_^
CanRay
Ah that ol' Deadlands Hinderance GSoD! I loved it! One group wanted everyone to have it!

Anyhow, "Signature" is one that I particularily love for Deadlands... Always gotta let everyone know who did it.

I love how the Cannon character, Kane, does it best!
Mickle5125
Signature... a 5 point negative quality, perhaps?

*plots and plans yet another character concept*
Hatspur
I was pretty bummed that there were no rules for "enemies" in negative qualities. It could be done so easily alongside your contacts. Instead of Loyalty/Connections it would be Hatred/Connections. You could roll dice equal to the contact's hatred at the start of each session and the number of hits refers to how badly he guns after the character this session.

Mind you, I could see this taken to the extreme. One character with 2 6/6 enemies would really detract from any plan the GM may have, but it would make an interesting chase game.
CanRay
Oh, another rule I have in game is that you can take the "Cortex Bomb" disadvantage (+20 BP), and it doesn't count towards the maximum amount of Negative BP you can take.

But you have no idea how it got there, no black outs, or memory loss, nothing... Just hit the friendly neighbourhood Alley Doc one day for a check-up, tune-up, and bullet removal, and (s)he asks, "Hey, when did you get the Cortex Bomb installed?"
Stahlseele
if they did not start out with the problem, my characters sooner or later got the mild common phobia of dogs . . 'cause i as a player can't stand them . . i ain't really afraid of them, but i HATE them with a passion . . i'm more of a Cat-Person . . it got kinda silly, when my Combat-Monster-Troll suddenly was afraid of a poodle . . but meh, there's more than flight . . there's fight as a response to fear too . . after i had shot the poodle with a called shot burst from an viper slivergun, the GM decided that critters were going to get armor no matter what . . so i switched to Savalette Guardian and ExEx next time ^^
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 2 2008, 05:10 PM) *
. . but meh, there's more than flight . . there's fight as a response to fear too . .

Humans have a Fight or Flight mechanism, just like most animals. One of my friends 'Flight' response happens to be broken.
CanRay
Freeze is also there, for camouflage.
Stahlseele
heh, i can relate . . combat monster ain't SR only . .
Mickle5125
QUOTE (Hatspur @ May 2 2008, 05:09 PM) *
I was pretty bummed that there were no rules for "enemies" in negative qualities. It could be done so easily alongside your contacts. Instead of Loyalty/Connections it would be Hatred/Connections. You could roll dice equal to the contact's hatred at the start of each session and the number of hits refers to how badly he guns after the character this session.

Mind you, I could see this taken to the extreme. One character with 2 6/6 enemies would really detract from any plan the GM may have, but it would make an interesting chase game.



Enemy

5-30 point negative quality.

Somebody, somewhere, wants you dead. Treat just like Contacts, except the enemy has hatred instead of loyalty. Every point of hatred is worth 2 points, and every point of connectivity is worth 3. Therefore a H1, C1 enemy would be a 5 point negative quality, and a H6, C6 would be a 30 point negative quality.


Only problem I see with this set up is that any enemies that aren't equally hateful and connected would have negative quality points that aren't divisible by 5. H3,C4 = 18, for example. Any ideas for better point dispersal? question.gif
Lionhearted
Weirdness magnet.. nuff said
Fortune
The main problem with the Enemy Negative Quality is that it essentially turns into a Team Flaw™. Additionally, when a resolution is reached (read enemy is killed) , and it almost certainly will be, then the GM either has to go through logic hops to extend the flaw (or arbitrarily explain how the character 'paid off' the flaw with Karma after the fact), or the character basically gets free Build Points.
Mickle5125
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 3 2008, 06:11 PM) *
The main problem with the Enemy Negative Quality is that it essentially turns into a Team Flaw™. Additionally, when a resolution is reached (read enemy is killed) , and it almost certainly will be, then the GM either has to go through logic hops to extend the flaw (or arbitrarily explain how the character 'paid off' the flaw with Karma after the fact), or the character basically gets free Build Points.


Ultimately, it's up to how the GM plays the enemy... a low connectivity enemy would probably die fairly quickly, but a high connectivity one might never actually be seen by the players. The Enemy flaw would give the GM a nicely sized plot hook to play with... *shrugs* it could just turn into a "GM handout only" flaw.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Lionhearted @ May 3 2008, 08:54 PM) *
Weirdness magnet.. nuff said

best "flaw" ever *g*
i wish my GMs were imaginative enough so i could actually earn such a thing ^^
Daier Mune
there's always the best quality from Fallout: Bloody Mess. people around you tend to die in the most violent way possible. i guess for shadowrun that doesnt mean much, since people are usualy sporting high-explosive machineguns and monofilament whips.
Stahlseele
heh, good idea . . i'll have to look into porting some of the Fallout-Things into SR3 *g*
but i am not sure if THAT particular one is an EDGE or an FLAW *g*
Lionhearted
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 4 2008, 09:22 PM) *
best "flaw" ever *g*
i wish my GMs were imaginative enough so i could actually earn such a thing ^^


Had a guy in my last group that always picked that quality, and had Characters that themself could have qualified for showing up with that quality.. such as a Biker Satyr with an Elvis totem and a geas to sing Old Elvis hit's whenever he used magic, yeah he had a Alamos 20k biker jacket aswell "Even the devil has pointy ears" (Hey! that looks just like me!)
Cain
This *really* happened.

A player wanted to take a mild allergy, like cigarettes. But then, he wanted to take Addiction: Cigarettes as well. cool.gif

Individually, each of those may be too mild for the rules. But together, they should be worth a heck of a lot more. I thought that was a clever use of the Flaw rules.
Stahlseele
how did he want to get addicted to something that made him physically ill?
combining allergy common mild dogs and phobia common light dogs i can understand . . but that? O.o
or did he beomce allergic because he overdid it? best way to cure an addiction is probably getting sick of the stuff you're addicted to . .
DreadPirateKitten
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 4 2008, 05:18 PM) *
how did he want to get addicted to something that made him physically ill?
combining allergy common mild dogs and phobia common light dogs i can understand . . but that? O.o
or did he beomce allergic because he overdid it? best way to cure an addiction is probably getting sick of the stuff you're addicted to . .


I have a friend with lactose intolerance that LOVES ice cream.

She eats it often, and then has vicious cramps, and gets violently ill.

I dunno what to tell you. It happens.
Daier Mune
well, niccotine is an addictive drug, after all.

whiskey has gotten me sick more than once, but that doesn't make me like it any less (although it has made me be smarter about my drinking habits).
Stahlseele
yeah, liking something you don't accept is easy . . but getting ADDICTED to it?
Daier Mune
*shrug* people are dumb and routinely make poor decisions in thier lives?
Cain
I know people with athsma who smoke. Not to mention smokers with emphysema and lung cancer, but that should be obvious. *Shrug* It's an addiction, and addictions are usually harmful to you. As for the allergy part, I can see him taking a drag, then going into a coughing fit. That'd be worth all the negative modifiers. It doesn't need to be a strict according-to-Hoyle allergic reaction to count.
Earlydawn
QUOTE (CanRay @ May 2 2008, 06:03 PM) *
But you have no idea how it got there, no black outs, or memory loss, nothing... Just hit the friendly neighbourhood Alley Doc one day for a check-up, tune-up, and bullet removal, and (s)he asks, "Hey, when did you get the Cortex Bomb installed?"
I laughed hard. rotfl.gif
Coldan
QUOTE (Mickle5125 @ May 3 2008, 08:50 PM) *
Only problem I see with this set up is that any enemies that aren't equally hateful and connected would have negative quality points that aren't divisible by 5. H3,C4 = 18, for example. Any ideas for better point dispersal? question.gif


Only give GPs for the connection rating of the enemy. If the enemy is killed (and something just won't let him die easily) replace the enemy or the character has to buy off the handicap. If he don't do this, replace the person as mentioned before.


Example:
Have killed the police officer at your district, your enemy is gone, but his best friend is now the police officer. So the enemy is still there, only with another face.
Larme
Yay, an opportunity for me to rage about The Worst Flaws Ever from SR3: Distinctive Style + Vindictive = "You are so cool that you look unique and awesome, and everyone will remember you, and you also remember everyone who ever wronged you and totally get revenge on them, and everyone remembers your revenge because you are so unique and awesome and cool looking, and you get points just for being cool." I hated those two, the system treated looking cool, and being vengeful, two traits of the most awesome cinematic anti-heroes, as flaws. Totally stupid sleepy.gif

Another stupid but fun flaw was Liar. I had a half-sane, machine gun wielding elf, who was Ugly and Didn't Care, with the Liar flaw. He got away with murder in broad daylight, because he was really good at that, and anyone who came looking for him never made it back. But try and let him have a normal conversation with someone? No dice. He went to a church to investigate some deaths I think it was, and though they initially took pity on him as a homeless bum, and he only told them the truth, they ended up slamming the door in his face. At which point he noticed that a crowd had started to gather around the trunk of his car, where he had stashed someone, for some reason that I can no longer remember, who had started to make noise... But anyway, it got to where he just grunted instead of answering questions because that was the only way not to make a roll for his Liar flaw biggrin.gif
HentaiZonga
Heh. My biggest complaint about positive/negative qualities (and gear, and other suchness) was that when the Good Stuff goes away, you get nothing in return. When the Bad Stuff goes away, you have to buy it off.

Then again, I had GM's that LOVED for characters to spend a bunch of BP in Qualities, Attributes, Contacts, and Gear, so they could behind-the-scenes blow up everything they owned, kill off all their friends, burn their Magic down to mundane, kidnap them and extract their 'ware, and then inject them full of Doom to burn all their attributes down to 1.

"There. Now you're a 50-BP Character."
Glyph
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 4 2008, 09:37 PM) *
Then again, I had GM's that LOVED for characters to spend a bunch of BP in Qualities, Attributes, Contacts, and Gear, so they could behind-the-scenes blow up everything they owned, kill off all their friends, burn their Magic down to mundane, kidnap them and extract their 'ware, and then inject them full of Doom to burn all their attributes down to 1.

"There. Now you're a 50-BP Character."


Wow. Sounds like you had some really pathetic GMs. My attitude would be:

"No, you have a 50-point NPC. Bye, loser."
Mickle5125


QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 5 2008, 12:37 AM) *
Then again, I had GM's that LOVED for characters to spend a bunch of BP in Qualities, Attributes, Contacts, and Gear, so they could behind-the-scenes blow up everything they owned, kill off all their friends, burn their Magic down to mundane, kidnap them and extract their 'ware, and then inject them full of Doom to burn all their attributes down to 1.

"There. Now you're a 50-BP Character."


And that, my friends, is a great example of why some GMs should have their GMing license taken away.
Mickle5125
QUOTE (Larme @ May 5 2008, 12:32 AM) *
Yay, an opportunity for me to rage about The Worst Flaws Ever from SR3: Distinctive Style + Vindictive = "You are so cool that you look unique and awesome, and everyone will remember you, and you also remember everyone who ever wronged you and totally get revenge on them, and everyone remembers your revenge because you are so unique and awesome and cool looking, and you get points just for being cool." I hated those two, the system treated looking cool, and being vengeful, two traits of the most awesome cinematic anti-heroes, as flaws. Totally stupid sleepy.gif


eh... They really are flaws. Distinctive Style means that your handiwork is ALWAYS identifiable. People know it was you, which makes lying low really hard. Vindictive... well, that can really screw you over too. True, they are awesome and completely required for cinematic anti-heroes, but that doesn't change the fact that they're character flaws.

QUOTE (Larme @ May 5 2008, 12:32 AM) *
Another stupid but fun flaw was Liar. I had a half-sane, machine gun wielding elf, who was Ugly and Didn't Care, with the Liar flaw. He got away with murder in broad daylight, because he was really good at that, and anyone who came looking for him never made it back. But try and let him have a normal conversation with someone? No dice. He went to a church to investigate some deaths I think it was, and though they initially took pity on him as a homeless bum, and he only told them the truth, they ended up slamming the door in his face. At which point he noticed that a crowd had started to gather around the trunk of his car, where he had stashed someone, for some reason that I can no longer remember, who had started to make noise... But anyway, it got to where he just grunted instead of answering questions because that was the only way not to make a roll for his Liar flaw biggrin.gif


Oh, now that could be a fun flaw to bring into the game... definitely a social flaw... maybe 5 (10 for face) point negative quality?

Ultimately, the best way to get an interesting and fun character is to play the flaws rather than the strong points. A Troll street sam with 15 strength and 15 body is a melee tank. wonderful. He's also boring. Now, make that troll be an impulsive liar and a kleptomaniac with no real skills in stealing things. Much more entertaining. Now, take away those flaws and replace them with Addiction: Tentacle Porn. Even more fun, no?
Sir_Psycho
I once played a game using the full Amnesia flaw, where I got to write his character sheet for him, and he didn't even know his skills or cyberware. But that's not the funny flaw I gave him.

He woke up in an alley, bleeding to death from multiple gashes, with broken ribs and no hand. That's right. An awesome flaw. No hand. The character has a stump, and can only perform one handed actions, until they can buy the flaw off with a cyber-hand. Of course, he started off with no money and no contacts, so it would have taken him a while. So many funny situations where he would be holding a knife in his one hand, and then would get attacked by some-one he didn't want to kill. He'd go "oh shit, I defend myself non-lethally, without the knife" and I'd say "what, with your stump?"
Moon-Hawk
QUOTE (Mickle5125 @ May 5 2008, 09:45 PM) *
eh... They really are flaws. Distinctive Style means that your handiwork is ALWAYS identifiable. People know it was you, which makes lying low really hard. Vindictive... well, that can really screw you over too. True, they are awesome and completely required for cinematic anti-heroes, but that doesn't change the fact that they're character flaws.

Yes, they're flaws, but more often than not they punish the other players, not the player who actually took it. Flaws like Vindictive, as well as many of the behavior-related totem restrictions (I'm really thinking of SR3 here, but some of the same applies in SR4) allow a certain type of player to act like a complete asshat, crap all over the game, and then feel entitled to extra karma for roleplaying their character, hiding behind those flaws/limitations like a shield.
It's the certain-type-of-player's fault, not the flaw's, precicely, but the flaw is an enabler.
Kerberos
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ May 5 2008, 09:40 PM) *
I once played a game using the full Amnesia flaw, where I got to write his character sheet for him, and he didn't even know his skills or cyberware. But that's not the funny flaw I gave him.

He woke up in an alley, bleeding to death from multiple gashes, with broken ribs and no hand. That's right. An awesome flaw. No hand. The character has a stump, and can only perform one handed actions, until they can buy the flaw off with a cyber-hand. Of course, he started off with no money and no contacts, so it would have taken him a while. So many funny situations where he would be holding a knife in his one hand, and then would get attacked by some-one he didn't want to kill. He'd go "oh shit, I defend myself non-lethally, without the knife" and I'd say "what, with your stump?"

Or with the hilt of the knife.
Stahlseele
if he were hardcore he'd go without hand and just have some blade implanted onto the stump . . or one of those hook-hands you can get for cheap *g*
Fortune
QUOTE (Kerberos @ May 7 2008, 04:23 AM) *
Or with the hilt of the knife.


Or his feet. wink.gif
Nigel
QUOTE (Cain @ May 4 2008, 12:59 PM) *
This *really* happened.

A player wanted to take a mild allergy, like cigarettes. But then, he wanted to take Addiction: Cigarettes as well. cool.gif

Individually, each of those may be too mild for the rules. But together, they should be worth a heck of a lot more. I thought that was a clever use of the Flaw rules.


Yeah, that was pretty funny. The best part was when he then wanted to take Addiction: Allergy to Cigarettes (in this case). Burn out within a week!
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