Rules help
First, is gymnastics used in addition to or in place of dodge for either melee or ranged combat? I thought I read that somewhere, but when I looked I couldn’t find anything about it.

Next, I’ve got a number of questions regarding spells and modifiers.

1. What are the most common environmental modifiers you use?
2. Do mana spells ignore all cover, walls, etc? So for example, can a mage drop a manaball spell on their side of a door and take out things on the other side?
3. Do LOS area of effect spells require actually seeing an actual target or can they just target a point in space and treat them as “grenades� effectively?
4. Contacts/glasses with lowlight, thermo and vision magnification (I forget the exact enhancement) are fairly easy to come by. What sorts of modifiers are reasonable to throw at mages to decrease their spell casting pool to make life a bit more challenging for them?
5. Can mages make use of ultrasound vision for targeting?
6. What are the most common effective tactics to use against mages / spirits?
7. What vision enhancements do projecting mages get? Can they only see as if with normal light? If they naturally have low-light or thermo, do they get that as well? Do living things “glow� and effectively allow them to paint targets even in complete darkness or make out clear details?
8. Do people find the lower drain for summoning spirits in SR4 to be balanced in general (i.e. virtually a non-issue) or do you go with double force in dice for the hits for drain?

Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat

We don't talk about the Gymnastics dodge, not since the "injury". Seriously though theres a few topics if ya do a search,takes some reading but lots of possible clarifications there.

in place of dodge! you can roll reaction + gymnastics for full defense against ranged attacks and reaction + gymnastics or reaction + melee combat skill + gymnastics for full defense against melee attacks...

1. Visual mods always seem to be most common at our table.
2. All spells require line of sight to target, that being said mana spells would only effect "living" things.
3. IIRC Errata may have cleared this up, have to have primary target?
4. Any distractions,wounds,range modifiers....don't forget enemy counterspell.
5.
6. Against Mages/Spirits. Geek the mage first! Other mages/spirits. Sic the Adapt on spirit. Background count. Counterspelling/wards.
7. Auras glow with color, astral has always been described as filled with shadow. Manifesting I'd say apply any normal vision mods and only allow spell enhanced vision to spot things.
8. From what I've seen lower drain values on the whole have allowed casters to stay in the fight longer when casting/summoning on the fly.


Edit: For number 5 in the past only real eyes,magical enhancement or eyes paid for with essence would help with targeting for spellcasting. With the thought that an electronic image is no good for spell targeting but optics like binoculars or magesight goggles would work as well as cyber eyes paid for with essence.

Edit2: As a side note, touch spells don't require LOS just a successful touch.

lighting, cover, movement


The mage needs to actually see some part of the target to effect them with a direct combat spell. So if a guy is completely hidden behind a wall, for example, the mage can't hit him. Also note that the spell will fry all the other living things the the mage can see (in the AOE), like plants.


For indirect combat spells, he mage only needs to see the center point of the spells AOE. After that, the spell acts like a grenade going off at that point. Even stuff the mage can't see can get burnt.



Note that only natural vision enhancements (orks low light vision, for example) or enhancements paid for with essence can generally be used to assist with spell targeting. You can also use anything that directs natural light, for example, optical telescopes and mirrors. But computer enhanced images such a the low light displays provided by contacts, goggles, etc won't help at all. Also note the mage sight goggles, as these use a fiber optic cable to deliver the original light to the mages eyes, they can still be used to do spell targeting with. For example, the mage can stick the end of the fiberoptic under the door and blast people in the room.


No. And not the radar based cyber sensor either.


Break visibility. Use Thermal smoke grenades and flashpacks. Do stuff that increases their visibility penaties (cover, lighting).
Against spirits, make sure you are carrying something with a high penetration total (base damage + armor penetration) to defeat the spirirts immunity to normal weapons. For example, a super warhawk loaded with APDS does 6(-6) damage, enough to get past the immunity of even a force 6 spirit with one net hit.


Astral perception is not actually sight. So no sight based modifiers are used. The sight metaphors are mostly used to make it easy to explain.


Summoning drain can be quite variable. A force 6 spirit has roughly a 10% chance of producing 8 or more drain when summoned. It's the risk of high variable drain that makes calling up instant spirits risky, not the low average drain.

Thanks for the quick responses. I still have questions though.

1. Is gymnastics in place of dodge in any circumstance an official rule or simply a house rule?
2. For the spells and LOS to target, is it LOS to the center of the effect or line of sight to the actual target? Mage A is in a room and knows there's an opponent on the other side of a short wall but can't see the individual. Can the mage target a point at the base of the wall with a 6 meter spread and have it effect the target on the other side? Can the mage target the air above and just behind the wall to effect the target?
3. Living things in a pitch dark room will be 'visible' to an astrally perceiving character due to the auras, correct? How would low essence effect it? Visual perception check at a threshold of 7-essence? Die penalties would still be in place for cover or things like smoke which provides a non-light based obstruction, correct?
4. Is the mage's longevity in combat balanced? Also, what's the impact of the extra cash in the mage's pocket? There's far less reason to bind spirits to have a mini-army when you're only down a spirit for an initiative pass at worst.

Thanks!

With a sweep of his...

Hat

Reference?

Also note the mage sight goggles, as these use a fiber optic cable to deliver the original light to the mages eyes, they can still be used to do spell targeting with. For example, the mage can stick the end of the fiberoptic under the door and blast people in the room.




I understand that lighting based modifers wouldn't make a difference. Cover would effect how much of a person and their aura you could see so I would expect that would have an effect. I'm also assuming that as you can't see through walls, physical effects such as smoke or rain would obscure astral vision though I could go either way on it.

With a sweep of his...

Hat

Not any circumstances. Dodge is normally a skill used for non-combat characters. Especially since it has the ranged specialization available. You can replace dodge with gymnastics and a close combat skill.


There are two sorts of combat spells.
For direct spells (stunball, manaball, powerball), you need to see (or touch, or astrally perceive) the target to effect them. This includes targets in the AOE, you need to see them too.
For indirect combat spells (fireball, lightning ball, etc), you only need to see the center of the AOE. Then the spell goes off like a grenade, and anything in the AOE is likely to get hit.


Even low essence guys are alive enough to notice. Things like smoke still provide penalties to astral perception, yes. So noticing the only living thing in a pitch dark room is pretty easy. Noticing the guy standing in the middle of the jungle is difficult, because there's all the other living stuff. Also note that the infiltration skill still works vs astral perception.


Balanced vs what, exactly? The main limiter on mages is that everything takes a complex action to do. A guy with an MGL-12 can lay down 2 airburst grenades every action, a mage can only lay down one AOE in the same time. And the grenade launcher dosen't cause drain.

BBB page 173, Step 3: Choose the Target(s)

Gymnastics dodge option is last paragraph in Full Defense section. PG 151 BBB

(Official FAQ) You do need the see the primary target of the spell. However, as noted in the errata, Indirect Combat spells will affect other targets that are unseen by the caster as long as they are caught within the spell's area of effect.
Note that the same ruling for grenades applies to Indirect Combat spells cast "at the ground" -- if the attempt is to catch targets in the spell's effect radius, treat it as an Opposed Test, no matter where the spell is actually aimed.

Astra sight can be odd, not a "sight" so much as perception, dont need eyes or so lead to believe. But is an person/aura can still be hidden from perception by other objects? PG 182 BBB clears up some stuff under Astral Perception section.

Mage balance really depends on how there played I think. Money spent on armor or binding, definetly focus's. (Could definetly take some time and expand on this point.)

Targeting reference for spellcasting. PG 173 BBB

Basically, the way to think about Auras is this: The actual photons that the mage uses to 'line up' the spell have to travel directly from a piece of material emanated from within the target's aura, to a piece of material infused with the mage's aura. Anything which absorbs photons and then re-emits different photons won't work.

Line of sight has historically been a point of contention on the forum. Things discussed before (and not completely resolved) include:

• I'm in the middle of a room surrounded by people. While staring straight ahead, I cast stunball with ground zero size inches in front of me. Are the people behind me affected? I didn't see them, but they might be considered to still be in LOS since there are no visual obstructions between me and them.
• Am I always considered to have LOS to myself?
• Can I set up my AR goggles to block out the images of my teammates in order to eliminate LOS to them so they aren't effected by my stunball?
• Can any part of me acheive LOS if I stick my hand over the top of a wall do I now have LOS to the people on the other side?
• Does the answer to that change in any way if I'm astrally perceiving?
• The Arsenal entry for magemasks indicate that the hood covering your head blocks LOS. Would a blindfold (which covers the eyes but not the whole head) also block LOS?
• The BBB has a set of 'touch range' spells that require you to have physical contact in order to effect your target. Do touch range spells work when you don't have LOS? (e.g. I've got the magemask on, but no magecuffs - can I target the guard by grabbing him?)
• Conversly, does physical contact allow spellcasting for normal spells (not designated as 'touch range').

Hopefully this will clear up some doubts (these answers are as official as you'll get until something is printed in a FAQ):

Direct line of sight is required for LOS spell targeting. So, no, people standing behind you are unaffected, just like anyone standing behind a wall.


Yes. Unless some visual impediment obscures your body from direct LOS (such as a mage mask or even low-light goggles/contact lenses).


No. What happens when you target a direct combat spell is that you instinctively sync the mana you are channeling in the spell construct to the target's aura/shadow. It is not entirely a physical sense, but in metahumans it is linked to the sense of sight.


No. In metahumans spell targeting is linked to either the sense of sight or the "astral sense."


The simple answer to that is no. Astral perception is deeply rooted and linked to the seat of metahuman consciousness, the mind. Think of it as a "third eye." Whether its because the human brain is hardwired to process sensory stimuli in a certain way, or for some yet undetermined mystical reason, astral perception is just as directional as a character's normal dominant sense (usually vision, but sometimes hearing).


Yes. And no, managing to glimpse the side of your nose under the blindfold should not be enough to establish a LOS targeting link (though your GM may allow it with the appropriate cover modifiers I know I have).


This is unclear and will appear in the FAQ.


No. They are not interchangeable.

LOS Requires you see your target. Touch spells don't require LOS just a touch. Can't substitute one for the other. Indirect combat spells effect all in there range (based on force) using first target for opposed test.

Edit: Hmm that Synner fella beat me lol.