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Sombranox
Okay, this is something that's been bugging me a bit and I was just curious how you all handle it.

How well can cyberware scanners recognize internal components of cyberware that have capacity?

Eyes and limbs specifically can have things which are restricted or forbidden, but the description below doesn't _really_ say whether the thing can recognize internal workings or not.


BBB 255:
Millimeter wave detection systems, also known as
cyberware scanners, process video taken in the millimeter
wave spectrum to identify the energy signature of cyberware
and concealed items (specifically weapons) on a person.
These devices can “see through� thick layers of clothing and
other concealment to identify items from a distance of 15
meters away. To determine if the detector scans cyberware
or a prohibited item, roll the Device rating and compare
the hits scored to the thresholds given on the Cyberware
Scanner Table. Millimeter wave scans can detect any nonbiological
item by its shape and composition, assuming
the item is listed in the device’s database. If the threshold
is reached, the scanner detects the item/implant and notes
its general locations and type; additional hits provide more
detail (function, model, grade, etc.).


One way to look at it would be that the "additional hits provide more detail" part is where seeing sub-components comes into play, but since there's no actual stated rule of what that means, it comes purely to GM interpretation.

Example:

Someone with an alpha cyberarm with various custom attributes, a few innocent gadgets, a spur and a gyromount. They need to roll at a threshold of 2 to detect them.

So say they get one sub-component per success over 2 (total house rule but one interpretation of additional hits) and they roll four successes.

A nice GM might say they detect the custom attributes and the attribute enhancements. All fine and dandy. Restricted if body or strength enhancements, but nothing to go to jail for.

A mean GM though, could say they detect the gyromount and the spur, both forbidden items. And suddenly you have a lot bigger issue on your hands.



It's just all vague like so many things, and so I thought I'd ask how you all handle it. Thanks for any info or better interpretations you can give.
Sponge
I would say to roll separately for each item of interest inside the cyberlimb. Pieces of cyberware inside a cyberlimb are still distinct pieces of cyberware in their own right (although customizations to the limb itself, like attribute enhancement, could use the method you suggest).

DS
Sombranox
QUOTE (Sponge @ May 5 2008, 02:22 PM) *
I would say to roll separately for each item of interest inside the cyberlimb. Pieces of cyberware inside a cyberlimb are still distinct pieces of cyberware in their own right (although customizations to the limb itself, like attribute enhancement, could use the method you suggest).

DS


Oy, do you roll separately for every piece of cyber and every weapon and non-bio item on the person?

That would definitely make it harder for things to find consistently, but I've always just rolled once and compared that roll to each item's threshold. Doing thirty rolls per person would be painful.
Sponge
QUOTE (Sombranox @ May 5 2008, 02:34 PM) *
Oy, do you roll separately for every piece of cyber and every weapon and non-bio item on the person?

That would definitely make it harder for things to find consistently, but I've always just rolled once and compared that roll to each item's threshold. Doing thirty rolls per person would be painful.


If someone's walking through a scanner with 30 pieces of restricted or forbidden equipment, I'd just say "yes it detects something", and then they'd be searched more thoroughly wink.gif Your original example was about just a spur and a gyromount, though. I don't have a hard and fast rule for all situations.

DS
Sombranox
I somehow forgot about this thread I started when it slipped back to page 2.

I guess my issue is less with actually walking through manned scanners and more about constantly walking past streetlight scanners in non-barrens areas. It's one thing for those scanners to recognize weapons or that the person has a pair of cyberarms and query his commlink for proper permits, and another for it to have a constant chance to recognize internal components of those arms when not in use.

Of course, if playing it a little less "Big Brother is Watching", it's not as much of an issue.

I guess 30 is a bit high. But a licensed gun or two, couple clips of ammo, armor modifications like an autoinjector, contacts, glasses, earbuds, commlink, a piece or three of tech like a sensor or WNG, maybe a minidrone or two in the pocket, licensed wired reflexes, skillwires, datajack, and a pair of cyberarms with gyromounts is a lot to roll against. Especially when the gyromounts inside the arms are the only forbidden item really.

I guess I would prefer a system where you roll once and compare difference pieces overall but it requires an operator actually focusing the sensor on specific capacity items to try and sense sub-components. Or something.

Anyways, how have the rest of you handled your cybered-up sammies walking down the street with spurs or gyromounts or the like? Just handwaved as not detected until its dramatic or kept them to the barrens where they can't get in trouble, or just have them getting pulled over daily and bribing cops to leave them be?

JeffSz
-WHEN- does everyone normally have scanners checking for cyberware, and where?
One of my players just made a Troll character with an extra-capacity obvious cyberarm, and an internal SMG. I'm really not sure what to do to him (if anything) when he leaves the Barrens.

O_o
Sombranox
The way I look at it, a rating 6 cyberware scanner costs 450 and can be put inside an RFID sensor, thereby effectively invisible. If you wanted to go all out Big Brother, you could have them mounted every fifteen meters (their max range) in AAA neighborhoods and by sheer probability of having to do a roll every few meters, _SOMETHING_ is going to trigger.

Then again, that's just mean. I've handwaved it a lot at my table just because the rules aren't terribly clear to me (which is why I started this thread to get others experiences) and most of my sessions are set in areas where it's not a huge issue, so the only time it comes up is when someone is trying to sneak into some secure facility that would check that sort of thing.
Cthulhudreams
Pretty much all of my characters have a mad scanner and a cyberware scanner stapled too them. It's like... free. This makes it basically awesome.

I assume that the entrance to any secure facility/building/area is much the same though maybe not a great sensor. Only stuff with AV12 or less is common in every day life in my world, so I can justify the 'av12 are starting creation'. Stuff with 13+ never shows up outside of the hands of select law enforcement and military.

To me that explains why yo cannot just go, say, peel a R6 scanner off a wall.
Sombranox
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 6 2008, 07:32 PM) *
Pretty much all of my characters have a mad scanner and a cyberware scanner stapled too them. It's like... free. This makes it basically awesome.

I assume that the entrance to any secure facility/building/area is much the same though maybe not a great sensor. Only stuff with AV12 or less is common in every day life in my world, so I can justify the 'av12 are starting creation'. Stuff with 13+ never shows up outside of the hands of select law enforcement and military.

To me that explains why yo cannot just go, say, peel a R6 scanner off a wall.


True, i didn't take avail into account. In general I almost never used higher than rating 4 ones out in streets though. Still, a rating 4 with +3 for 6 or more items is still seven dice to toss against a threshold of 1 or 2. Which makes it fairly stupidly to hit those thresholds.

What I'm still interested in is how people treat the "additional hits provide more detail (function, model, grade, etc.)." part of it. It identifies by "shape and composition" and gets more information past the threshold. Whether that means it can see through the structure of a metal cyber arm to recognize a retracted cyberspur or gyromount or not is still up in the air.

One way proposed to handle it is do the scan for each subcomponent individually. Anyone else have any ways they handle this?
Earlydawn
Wasn't there a table in one of the third edition books that had an assensing-like table for cyberware scans? Might be useful if I'm remembering correctly.
Sombranox
QUOTE (Earlydawn @ May 7 2008, 02:43 PM) *
Wasn't there a table in one of the third edition books that had an assensing-like table for cyberware scans? Might be useful if I'm remembering correctly.


I'm not sure really. I can't recall that, but I'll have to go digging. anyone else remember something like this and know which book it was in?
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