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Shinobi Killfist
Anyone know why it costs more Karma to bind a focus if you make it yourself on average, than if you just buy one off the street. Sure you save some money but a lab costs 100,000, and then there are the materials or time if you got them yourself.

Sure I can gimick this a lot to make it way cheaper in karma but making multiple low level focuses with lost of radicals and orichucalum(sp?), but at its core its a good deal more expensive like force x7 instead of forcex5 for a power focus.
Tanka
Because you can make the foci for free. biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
Orichalcum.

~J
Zazen
I vaguely remember that there's also some sort of enchanting roll that can reduce the karma necessary to bond it.
Tanka
QUOTE (Zazen)
I vaguely remember that there's also some sort of enchanting roll that can reduce the karma necessary to bond it.

Yup.

QUOTE (MitS @ p. 44)
The enchanter may also make an additional Enchanting Test upon completing the creation of the focus to lower the Karma cost for the first bonding.<snip>Every 2 successes scored by the Enchanter lowers the Karma cost by 1.
Lilt
Not to mention the fact that with 3 units of radicals that listed price is dropped by 4.

If you are making a particularily complex focus then you may even be best doing a circulation of orichalcum beforehand (28 days, 48K input) which should reduce your karma costs by 3 at least.

[min/max=munchkin]
If you really want to be a good enchanter then be sure to pick-up centering metamagic and an ally/familiar spirit. Be sure to give the ally a good Talismongering skill and possibly the enchanting skill itself.

Although you can't add power foci dice to the use of the enchanting skill itself, you can center when performing any active magical skill and the dice from an ally's aid power ability can be added to any magical skill test (As centering is a magical skill, it qualifies). I am assuming that the fact that the ally acts as a power focus means you can't add the dice directly to enchanting...

With Centering and an ally/familiar spirit (the higher the force the better) you can reasonably hope to doubble your output from an orichalcum circulation and the test to reduce the karma for bonding the focus.[/min/max]
Namer18
For low force foci on average it should cost less karma to bond ones you make yourself. For high level foci, (greater then force 6) your better off buying them. Also the lower the multiplyer in the basebook for the karma the better it is to not make your own focus. Since the cost to bond a focus that you make yourself can at minimum be the force of the focus for a specific spell focus or a sustaining focus you can never make a focus that costs less karma to bind then one you purchase, however, it can cost more karma to bind. The big advantage I see in making a focus yourself is if you want to have a low level weapon or power focus, or if you want a focus to look like something in particular. IF you wanted a sustaining focus that is a gold necklace with a potato charm on it, it might be easier to simply make it yourself, instead of shopping around for someone who made a sustaining focus just like that. Yup I think that sort of makes sense.

Namer18
Bearclaw
While I realize the system in SR2 was broken (I made a rating 6 power focus and spent 7 karma on it) it would be nice to come up with a system somewhere in between. Making it yourself should have a much lower karma cost than bonding one made by some one else. This should be obvious.
I understand that game balance makes it necessary to charge large amounts of karma for foci, but really, if you make it yourself, and pour your blood sweat and tears into it, it's already attuned to you. At that point, you just need to give it the karma to power it up.
Is my logic flawed here?
tisoz
QUOTE
Lilt
Not to mention the fact that with 3 units of radicals that listed price is dropped by 4.

Isn't that 3 units * Force?

QUOTE
Lilt
Although you can't add power foci dice to the use of the enchanting skill itself, you can center when performing any active magical skill and the dice from an ally's aid power ability can be added to any magical skill test (As centering is a magical skill, it qualifies).

Enchanting is a magical skill. Why can't it add directly to enchanting?

And while you are using the enchanting rules, why not hire an enchanter to do the enchanting? Let them pay the karma to bind it to you. 5000 nuyen.gif /point.smile.gif
Adarael
My answer's pretty simple.

Because sometimes when you want a specific kind of focus, you can't find it if your contacts aren't good enough. Say you want a Force 6 combo Reflecting/Drain focus. Where are you gonna be able to get that from? It's a pretty unusual combo, so I'd impose an auto +2 on the availability.
So you enchant it. 's what I'm gonna do.

Reason #2: You're making it for a friend, but want to split the karma cost with them because it's a christmas present ICly. I did that with a weapon focus 4.
Lilt
QUOTE (tisoz)
Isn't that 3 units * Force?
No, that's a blunt 3 units. In the example they use a unit each of 3 different radicals to get a -4 bonus.
QUOTE (tisoz)
Enchanting is a magical skill.  Why can't it add directly to enchanting?
It says specifically in the decription of enchanting that power foci dice can't be added to enchanting skill rolls.
QUOTE (tisoz)
And while you are using the enchanting rules, why not hire an enchanter to do the enchanting?  Let them pay the karma to bind it to you.  5000 nuyen.gif /point.smile.gif
Hmm. That's a good point actually. A dammn good point...

Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (Bearclaw)
While I realize the system in SR2 was broken (I made a rating 6 power focus and spent 7 karma on it) it would be nice to come up with a system somewhere in between. Making it yourself should have a much lower karma cost than bonding one made by some one else. This should be obvious.
I understand that game balance makes it necessary to charge large amounts of karma for foci, but really, if you make it yourself, and pour your blood sweat and tears into it, it's already attuned to you. At that point, you just need to give it the karma to power it up.
Is my logic flawed here?

That's what I'm thinking. Making it on your own should at the worst cost the same in Karma, just limit the amount of screwing around you can do with the cost by adding radicals and the like. As is you can still get absurd deals if you just limit the force or the items a bit. Instead of a force 6 power focus have 3 force 2 power focuses, and then hey you get to add in those radicals for each focus.

If you could get the radical modifiers not as a set number but by a number times the force of the item being made, with some provision about how much is possible to reduce it by like no more than 1/2 the initial cost in karma, I wouldn't mind the cost so much. As is though I'm having trouble coming up for a reaosn for any mage to take enchanting other than for character development.
Tanka
Another reason: To earn extra money. Make the focus, then go sell it to the highest bidder. A pretty high level power focus could net you quite a bit of cash.
Bearclaw
I would never allow a PC mage the kind of time it takes to do that. It's really not something I would worry about.
If some one wants to create an enchanter/mage who makes oricalcum all the time, that's fine. Detail it, make a bunch of contacts, including a couple of PCs, and we'll place it. It's an NPC.
I'm not going to GM real life. I live real life. I'm hear for the violence and the dirty dealing
Tanka
I wouldn't allow them to do that as their runs. They could easily take Day Job and do that every day for an alloted time.

When it's run time, it's run time, no questions asked. In the offtime, however, they can make some orichalcum to sell off to the highest bidder.
Bearclaw
I've only allowed that much downtime between runs once.
Doesn't it take better than 2 months to make orichalcum if you do it all yourself?
Lilt
It depends on what you're prepared to pay. if you want to pay 11k then it'd take almost 6 months, 22k'd take 5 months, 44k would take 1 month...
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