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vladski
First off, I would like to say the character below is already created and has been played a few sessions. I like him and he's been "playable." I am posting this mostly because folks seem to think the Mystic Adept is broken or useless. For me, this guy was built as a survivable, fun character more than a study in "pwner-ship."

First, here's his "Backstory"
[ Spoiler ]


And here's the character:

[ Spoiler ]


So, let me know what you think. He's pretty much a solid BBB build; the only exceptions are his used bike (from Arsenal and using the "used" rules.)

ETA: Following Fortune's catch of my mistake, I amended the above character by doing the following: removing 20 BP of Edge (reducing it to2) and removing the Pos. Quality: Astral Chameleon and the Neg. Qualities: Mild Addiction Cram and Bad luck. These ammendments bring the character into Canon Build alignment without changing the character in any dramatic way.

ETA2: Following Muspellsheimr's comments I adjusted the Fixer to remove the two extra points for contacts and I had miscalculated the build points, only adding two points to charisma for being an elf instead of 3. I took this additional point and re-added it to Edge for a new total of 3.

ETA3: Okay, I think we have finally got it straight. Due to a misunderstanding of the rules I had taken more spells that allowed by my spellcasting. Therefore, I am taking ten build points away from Edge (reducing it to a 2) and bumping Spellcasting up to a 5. With the two remaining build points, I am increasing my fixer contact back to his original levels.

ETA4: After the "elf" miscalc, I have balanced out my sheet...finally.

I reduced the Fixer back to 1/3, reduced my Spellcasting to 4(+2), Reduced my Counterspelling to 1(+2), lost 2 spells: Glue and Mana Barrier, and reduced my Willpower to a 4. I also dropped my weapon focus +2. I lowered my Lifestyle to Street. I upped my Mag Sequencer to R4 and my Autopick to R3 and my Medkit to R4
The sheet should now balance! And the character still resembles himself. nyahnyah.gif

Vlad
Fortune
QUOTE
Qualities (-35BP)
Mystic Adept
Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Astral Chameleon
Criminal SIN
Alergy Mild/Common (Sunlight)
Addiction Mild (Cram)
Bad Luck
Sensitive System


According to canon, a character can only have 35 BP worth of Negative Qualities in total, not a 'net gain' of 35 BP. You have a total of 60 BP in Negative Qualities.

In fact, I'm not sure how you came up with that 35 BP figure, since you only have 15 BP worth of Positive Qualities, which would lead to a net gain of 45 BP.
Muspellsheimr
That's 20 points of Positive Qualities, not 15. Regardless, -35BP is off, and more than 35 bonus points (total, not net) from negative qualities is forbidden by RAW, as Fortune said.

EDIT
QUOTE (vladski @ May 14 2008, 08:22 PM) *
Attributes (200BP)
Body: 3
Agility: 5
Reaction: 4(5*)
Strength: 2
Charisma: 4
Inutition: 4
Logic: 3
Willpower: 5

190 Build Points, not 200.

QUOTE
Contacts (10BP)
Talismonger 4/2 (Ramses, blind Raven Shaman)
Fixer 2/4

12 Build Points, not 10.

Also, you have 10 spells listed, with a maximum starting of 6 (Spellcasting x 2). So unless you purchased four of them with karma in the few weeks you have been playing, that is also against RAW character generation.

I didn't even bother checking equipment, but the skills look fine.
Crusher Bob
Seems to know too many spells for a spellcasting of 3, as well.

Also, thats a lot of points spent on specializations (24!?), those 24 BP could just raise your skills outright, and wait for the specializations with karma.
Fortune
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ May 15 2008, 06:11 PM) *
That's 20 points of Positive Qualities, not 15.


Right! embarrassed.gif

Funny thing is that I originally knew that, but spent so much time on counting and recounting the negatives that I messed it up in the end. biggrin.gif
ornot
I liked the background story, although the last part (about making dark whispers) was confusing, although I guess it was about the characters runner handle.

In addition to the excess -ve qualities I'm not sure what an unarmed specialisation in martial arts actually restricts. IIRC it is an option listed in the RAW, but I worry that some of the options listed in the RAW require some explanation.

I thought spells known was capped by logic or magic, but I've not got my book on me. Regardless there are too many spells known. It's always tough to choose the right spells when making a magic user.
Fortune
QUOTE (ornot @ May 15 2008, 06:53 PM) *
I thought spells known was capped by logic or magic ...


QUOTE (SR4 pg. 85)
The maximum number of spells your character can learn during character creation is equal to twice the highest rating of your Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting skills.
vladski
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ May 15 2008, 03:12 AM) *
Seems to know too many spells for a spellcasting of 3, as well.

Also, thats a lot of points spent on specializations (24!?), those 24 BP could just raise your skills outright, and wait for the specializations with karma.


According to the BBB under Assigning Resources, pg 86 it says:

"The maximum number of spells your character can learn during character creation is
equal to twice the highest rating of your Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting skills."

My highest rating is 3(+2) for manipulation spells for a total of 5, allowing me a total of 10 spells. Am I misunderstanding this?


And I really prefer the specializations . I find they give a starting character a LOT of bang for their buck and the fact they stay useful as you build the character up.


Vlad
Fortune
QUOTE (vladski @ May 15 2008, 07:18 PM) *
My highest rating is 3(+2) for manipulation spells for a total of 5, allowing me a total of 10 spells. Am I misunderstanding this?


Yes you are.

Specializations do not add to the actual Skill, but are Dice Pool modifiers. As such, the do not actually raise the skill level, and are not counted when calculating things based on the skill itself. Specializations are no different than a Smartlink or Vision Enhancement, in that they add their rating when the situation calls for it, but are not otherwise relevant to the Skill in and of itself.
vladski
QUOTE (ornot @ May 15 2008, 03:53 AM) *
I liked the background story, although the last part (about making dark whispers) was confusing, although I guess it was about the characters runner handle.

In addition to the excess -ve qualities I'm not sure what an unarmed specialisation in martial arts actually restricts. IIRC it is an option listed in the RAW, but I worry that some of the options listed in the RAW require some explanation.

I thought spells known was capped by logic or magic, but I've not got my book on me. Regardless there are too many spells known. It's always tough to choose the right spells when making a magic user.


Thanks for the first positive comment. smile.gif

Yes, the final part was to demonstrate why he took the street name Dark Whisper. The character started in my mind as a hoarse, soft spoken sorta Clint Eastwood "Hang Em High" kinda guy and grew from there. And I agree, the write up was a little clunky at that portion.

On the other hand, it was jsut a character write up I did over maybe 45 minutes to let my GM know who the guy was and why he had and could do what he did. And to give the GM some stuff to play with for background as he ran my character. I personally have no idea who the runners that "killed" him were, nor why they were running for his boss. It's completely open to my GM. Hell, I don't even know what Comtech makes, builds, designs or runs. Or who they are owned by. It was all generic filler for my GM to go with in any direction he wanted.

Vlad
vladski
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 15 2008, 04:25 AM) *
Yes you are.

Specializations do not add to the actual Skill, but are Dice Pool modifiers. As such, the do not actually raise the skill level, and are not counted when calculating things based on the skill itself. Specializations are no different than a Smartlink or Vision Enhancement, in that they add their rating when the situation calls for it, but are not otherwise relevant to the Skill in and of itself.


Okay, this is not good. This means a bit more than jsut juggling a couple numbers. I chose those spells very specifically. I suppose I could take the ten points that were "found" and add them to my Spellcasting instead of my Edge... that would give me 5(2) with 2 BP left over to stick...somewhere... oh! back into my contacts.... Cool that works!

*reduces Edge back to 2 and raises Spellcasting to 5 and adds 2 points back into his Fixer contact.*

Thanks!

I will have to sit down with my GM and show him our mistakes. This has been helpful. smile.gif

Vlad
Wasabi
You've sure put a lot of love into making this character. Its wonderfully written!

You had mentioned you aren't going for pwnership and that its playable so in light of that I think its a strong character. SR4 is typically all about specialists which this character isn't so its not for just any game but if its power level is appropriate to the game he's being played in I'd say you've worked out a lot of versatility! smile.gif
vladski
QUOTE (ornot @ May 15 2008, 03:53 AM) *
<snip>
In addition to the excess -ve qualities I'm not sure what an unarmed specialisation in martial arts actually restricts. IIRC it is an option listed in the RAW, but I worry that some of the options listed in the RAW require some explanation.

<snip>

It is indeed a BBB RAW. It's listed as a specialization under Unarmed Combat and I think one or several of the Sample Characters have it.

They way we have always handled it, when going by "core book" rules, a Martial arts specialization comes into play when the character is capable of relatively unrestricted movement and the "martial arts" is sort of your generic, cinematic style of kung fu fighting. It encompasses many styles and simply represents extra special training in unarmed combat. You need to be able to move around a bit and use both your arms and legs. If a character is unable to do this, he doesn't get to use the specialization. Obviously, most PC's take this specialization as it's quite often usable. The balance is, as a GM, I frequently give MA to moderately trained security guards, nearly anyone with a military fighting background and most higher level melee fighting types.

Vlad
vladski
QUOTE (Wasabi @ May 15 2008, 05:00 AM) *
You've sure put a lot of love into making this character. Its wonderfully written!

You had mentioned you aren't going for pwnership and that its playable so in light of that I think its a strong character. SR4 is typically all about specialists which this character isn't so its not for just any game but if its power level is appropriate to the game he's being played in I'd say you've worked out a lot of versatility! smile.gif

Hey, thanks for the nice comment (and compliment!) Yeah, my group tends to play more "rounded" characters and less "super specialists." We also try to sorta back each other's characters up, not liking to put all our eggs in one basket.

Personally, I wanted to play an "assassin".. not some super high end jackel guy... jsut a guy that doesn't mind doing wet work. So, this guy was born... a PC that started out pretty common and decent and has a reason for now being a fairly cold blooded killer. He lost his compassion when leading a decent life showed him none. I chose Raven for the whole "profiting from other's misfortune" deal... and the bonus to manip spells wasn't a turn-off. wink.gif

The other characters that compose the running group with this guy are:
A mage... heavy on the combat and manip spells.
An adept, heavy on the physical and good with guns and a tolerable electronics guy. also a decent face.
A streetsam gunbunny muscle chick. With some hacking.

The entire party are elves, as that was a requirement of the GM for a story background he is wanting to run. I personally think it has somethign to do with the Tir Tairngire and a revolution. But, we havent got there yet and it's only a guess from a few clues that have been dropped.

Vlad
Crusher Bob
Looks like you spent 430 points:

Elf 30
Merits 15
flaws (35)
Base Stats 190
Special Stats 75
Skills 96
Spells 30
Contacts 12
Gear 17

Total: 430

You can lower magic to 5 (saving 25 points) and buy synaptic 1, muscle toner 2, and nictitating membranes (or something) for 98,000 Y (20 BP). You'd gain 5BP, +2 AGL, nictitating membranes, and 2,000Y. You'd also have a magic of 4, rather than 6, letting you raise it once without needing to initiate. Dropping your AGL by 2 points saves you another 20 points (but still leaving your effective AGL at 5), leaving you only 5 points over.
vladski
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ May 15 2008, 05:28 AM) *
Looks like you spent 430 points:

Elf 30
Merits 15
flaws (35)
Base Stats 190
Special Stats 75
Skills 96
Spells 30
Contacts 12
Gear 17

Total: 430

You can lower magic to 5 (saving 25 points) and buy synaptic 1, muscle toner 2, and nictitating membranes (or something) for 98,000 Y (20 BP). You'd gain 5BP, +2 AGL, nictitating membranes, and 2,000Y. You'd also have a magic of 4, rather than 6, letting you raise it once without needing to initiate. Dropping your AGL by 2 points saves you another 20 points (but still leaving your effective AGL at 5), leaving you only 5 points over.


Oh fraggin HELL! *hangs head and sobs* I created an Excel sheet to calculate all this stuff.. and what did I forget? To add a BP entry for being a M***** F***ing ELF. Where the hell am I gonna come up with 30 BP without trashing my concept? *whimpers, albeit in a manly sort of way.*

Thanks for the suggestion Bob, but what you suggest is not the character I had in mind. I wanted no cyber at all. And a Magic of 6 to be split evenly as a Mystic Adept. Well, surely I can carve out 30BP without completely trashing the guy. wobble.gif Back to the drawing board.

Vlad
vladski
OKay, I took care of the "elf" miscalc. All the changes are noted in the ETA4 below the character sheet. I think he balances now. And he still looks pretty much like the concept guy, albeit closer in time to the end of the background story. wacko.gif
vladski
You know, I am going to kick my GM in the nads.. and insist on going over everyone else's character sheets in this campaign. nyahnyah.gif He looked at this guy for at least 10 minutes and approved him. At the very least, the spell cap thing needs to be looked at for the mage, because we were jsut simply doing htat wrong.

Vlad
Fortune
If it is a GM requirement that everyone play an elven character, then it isn't unreasonable to ask him to waive the BP cost for race, as everyone would be on the same page race-wise.
Wasabi
Specializations are as cheap after creation as during creation (2 BP ea versus 2 Karma ea) so if it were me I'd get those two spells and point in spellcasting back at the expense of specializations. You may not be as good for a few runs but really... if you're gonna do spells you should DO spells... smile.gif
Backgammon
Cost of Full Mage with Magic 3 with Wired Reflexes 1: real cost of 38 BPs (15 magician + 20 Magic lost due to cyber + 3 for 15k)
Cost of Mystic Adept with Magic 3/3: real cost 40 (10 Mystic Adept + 30 Magic)

Not a bad tradeoff. You are 2 BP more expensive than an equal full mage build with wired reflexes. The advantage, and why I think Mystic Adept is better, is that you do not have illegal cyberware in your body. But you can't project.

Hm, wait a sec. You maxed out Magic at 6. That means your final point cost 25BPs. Which means he real cost of your Mystic Adept is 55 vs 38 for full mage.

Nope, I take back what I said. Your build is greatly disadvantaged compared to the mge + cyber route.

Well, that once again proves Mystic Adepts are not a min-maxer's friend, as they are inferior.

EDIT: Been thinking. IF you plan on Initiating and buying more Adept powers, on the long run, this is a better build than a mage build, as getting more powers would probably be cheaper than buying more cyber, considering an equal rise in power (i.e. it's cheaper to just increase Adept power then have to increase Magic to compensate for cyber magic loss AS WELL as buying cyberware. Interesting.)
Drogos
That's why Full Magicians with Augmentation Addiction are completely hosed...and make great toxics.
vladski
QUOTE (Backgammon @ May 15 2008, 12:35 PM) *
<snip>

EDIT: Been thinking. IF you plan on Initiating and buying more Adept powers, on the long run, this is a better build than a mage build, as getting more powers would probably be cheaper than buying more cyber, considering an equal rise in power (i.e. it's cheaper to just increase Adept power then have to increase Magic to compensate for cyber magic loss AS WELL as buying cyberware. Interesting.)


That was the "plan" for this character as he grew: boost the Adept side of things. Really didn't plan on enhancing the Mage aspect much, other than learning a new spell here or there.

Vlad
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