My mind has been racing with the implications of the combination of astral perception and AR, simsense, and all other sorts of constructed/technological perception in SR, and I was curious if anybody could point me towards some definitive answers or offer their own opinions.

1) The first issue I have deals with the actual sensory information that an astrally perceiving character processes: the synaesthetic descriptions of the astral plane seems to imply that the information is not taken into the body via any of the traditional five sense organs, although it is processed in the brain as if it were one of these senses. Are astral stimuli the "same" as other physical stimuli (smell touch taste sound sight), only "astral" versions? Or does astral sight depend on a kind of special "astral light" (essentially an astral wavicle) that is reflected by an astral form and perceived by an as yet unspecified astral sense organ? (how many times can I actually use the word "astral" in one sentence?)

2) Does an astrally perceiving character look at the astral in the same way they look at everything else: that is, with a standard first person view?

3) What happens to the sensory data from an astrally perceiving characters other senses? Is the astral perception "overlayed" on top of the actual physical senses, creating what is essentially a hybrid view of the world? Or do the astral senses supercede the physical ones in the same manner as ASIST?

4) Can someone with the right 'ware record physical stimuli (either as audio/visual data, or as simsense) while she is astrally perceiving and then play them back later and compare the recordings to her own memories of what she was astrally perceiving at the time?

5) What do you think would be the results of running a PET scan on a mage while subjecting her to the same battery of stimuli observed using both mundane senses and then again while she is astrally perceiving?

I realize that since we are dealing with MAGIC that all of these things can be hand-waved away fairly easily; I am mostly curious about approaching these questions as would an actual researcher in the SR universe, although canon/rules based responses are appreciated as well

Simsense can't record astral perception.

Thank you for promptly and succinctly answering a question that I didn't ask.

Everybody knows (or should know by now) that simsense can't record astral perception; I am more interested in the circumstances surrounding WHY it cannot. What are astral stimuli, how are they perceived, why are they interpreted as other physical (emotional?) senses by the brain, etc...

'cause handwavium and unobtanium cannot be caught in any kind or way . .
it is that way simply because . . what would stop people from fitting out some mage with full simrig and have him broadcast his astral perception to every security guard so they can all see the ghosts/invisible runners?
it's a part balancing and a part of making magical characters unique in their ways . . no in game reason given as far as i know . . closest to something like that was the mana active film for cameras and the actual mana-tech in arsenal

First, welcome to Dumpshock.

1) This is not fully explained as far as I know, but it has been clearly stated that astral perception works independently of the other senses. Like you said, it is probable that the sensory information is delivered in some magical form that is interpreted by the brain as vision, etc. I don't know of any canon references to other special senses (hearing, smell, taste) but since astrally active constructs have substance on the astral we can infer that there is some analog of touch. Also the subjective experience might be different for magicians of different traditions.

The astral is permeated by an astral glow that emanates from the earth- essentially the earth's living aura illuminates the astral plane.

2) Again, it could be different for different magicians, but I would assume it is first person. Could also be a feeling of disembodied omnipresence I suppose, but that makes game mechanics a bit sketchy...

3 and 4) Sensory data is probably still intact and transmitted to the brain. The magician just doesn't perceive it. Since the physical plane casts astral shadows there is an overlay effect to some extent. I would imagine that a simrig could continue to record physical sensations, especially if you are using astral perception (i.e. not projecting). Your body continues to sense its surroundings and can even react automatically to noxious stimuli if you are unconscious. But as AH said you won't get anything from the astral, except you might record your own emotional responses to astral stimuli. Whether that occurs with projection is certainly up for debate.

5) Who knows. If the brain is doing the bait and switch thing (interpreting magical stimuli as vision or whatever) you would probably detect activity in the appropriate cortex (visual) just like the person is seeing physical stimuli.

The book does in fact do a terrible job of this. In 3rd edition, it talks about how it is a psychic sense, a sixth sense, an innate knowledge of the nature of things. It then goes on to describe it as though it's just a visual overlay. Given the mass of rules and pictures about it, I think it's safe to assume that the writers intended for it to be that; a visual overlay. However, now and again they'll remember it is a sense unlike any other you've had, and so sometimes they'll say that when you're dealing with a particular magical item, you might smell or feel something, get an innate sense for its history, have a full sensory experience based off of it, and all of these are through astral perception.

So the answer is it matches all of them and none of them.

Astral sight does not depend on any sort of waves, particles, etc. It is life and magic, and for some reason is restricted by LOS.



Yes, your perceptions are still restricted by where your astral or physical self are, in a first-person view.



By the rules, an astrally perceiving character gets a penalty for any action relying solely on mundane sight, implying that astral perception and normal sight conflict, one distracting you from the other. However, while astrally projecting, the character can still hear everything normally, implying that astral hearing and physical hearing are the same (and therefore cannot be conflicted). Smell, touch, etc. are mostly left unclear; no penalties while perceiving, but you don't smell or feel normally while projecting.

While you can't astrally perceive while going fully into ASIST, like while decking or rigging, I don't know what happens if you're not fully in, but still getting input, like through virtual dashboards (driving with a datajack) and a smartlink. Assumedly they just confuse you.



You can record normal, mundane data while astrally perceiving. You won't pick up the astral data, but the mundane data should come through fine.



The PET scan would most likely reveal the mage is not a pet.

(Okay, real answer, as far as I'm aware it's never been addressed. It would not be unreasonable to say that some parts of the brain are activated during astral perception that aren't activated otherwise.)

Actually, by the rules, an Astrally Perceiving character gets a penalty for any non-Magical physical action, whether it is based on sight or not.



This would technically include Perception tests based on hearing, etc., as Perception is considered a Physical Skill in SR4.

We agree that the sense(s) that constitute astral perception are different from the physical senses which simsense is designed to record, and therefore are beyond the ability of simsense to record and/or transmit.

However, simsense is designed to record emotions as well. Astral perception contains a significant emotional component which has no analogue in the physical world, yet is perceptible to the astrally projecting person. How do we know that simsense cannot record those 'perceived' emotions?

And even if those 'perceived' emotions are beyond the technology to record and transmit, the projecting person's own emotions are certainly not beyond the technology, otherwise it could not record them in the physical world either. So, if an astrally projecting mage is scared silly by something he encounters in the astral plane, why would the technology not be able to record and transmit that emotion?

Peter

If the mage is astrally projecting, the simsense recorder gets nothing, as though he were in a coma. If he's perceiving, and is scared silly by something, the simsense recorder would get that he's scared silly, but not the cause of that.

Hey, that might be how they get the emotional overlays for the editing into Simsense!

Just send the Mage astrally into an area with a high emotional content, (s)he'll feel the spillage of it, and get just the base emotion recorded! Perfect thing to edit onto the Simsense to boost the gain! Even better for BTL!

Example, hitting a Rave in Astral to get feelings of lust and excitement!

Has that been stated in canon? I'm curious because it would really depend a lot on how the technology works and I doubt they've ever explained it in enough detail to be certain. But the amygdala, for example, is integral in the experience of emotions (which we know are recorded on simsense) and is fully capable of functioning without consciousness (as evidenced by certain responses in people in persistent vegetative states- wakefulness and consciousness are actually separate states). I guess it would also have a lot to do with the nature of a projecting magicians connection to his body... interesting stuff to think about.

Yes, in Shadowbeat and a couple of other sourcebooks since then.

Interesting... I guess I could bear that horrid cover long enough to look it up... -->

Do read Shadowbeat. Really, it's one of the best sourcebooks put out by Shadowrun, back in the glory days when people played rockers and burnt-out mages. You know, proper cyberpunk characters, not just fire mages and souped up street-sams.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Burnt-Out Rockermage! Keith Richards with Magical Powers!

But... but... isn't he magical now??

No, he's in the Spirit World, but that's only because he's drunk.