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Jonny Reload
Coming from 3rd edition, Riggers didn't have half the problems they now face with Hackers hijacking and disrupting the control of their Drones.

For starters I'm not even clear how the process begins to have your drones tampered with. Does the Hacker have to hack into your Commlink first or does he just hack into the Drone itself? Does the Drone have to be somehow loaded onto the Matrix or can you be in a dead zone with no AR or hotspots around and still just directly control the Drone (Not rigging it) with your Commlink?

Finally, are there any methods to use some sort of laser/alternative form of broadcasting that wouldn't be picked up by normal Signal Hacking?
Blade
It's impossible to have tamper proof drones for one simple reason: that'd also mean that the PC can't hijack drones, which would mean that there would be no reason for them to be able to hack things like security cameras, which would mean that they can't do much.

Moving on to your questions:
1. A drone has a node and so does the commlink. Both can communicate directly with each other, or they can relay their signal through other nodes if they are too far apart from one another. Everything can be hacked to successfully hack the drone: the commlink's node, the drone's node, the signal itself and any node in the way.

2. Yes you can use a cable, but that's not very easy to use. Laser can be done too, but you'll need to have a direct LoS to your drones.
Cthulhudreams
Another option is to pre issue the drone with a bunch of instructions, then break out your high visibility jacket and air controller paddles, or just shout at the thing. If it requires shouting the magic password (and make it a one time pad of passwords you know and it knows so that you an toggle it on and off at will as required) will get you there!
Jonny Reload
QUOTE (Blade @ May 23 2008, 02:42 PM) *
It's impossible to have tamper proof drones for one simple reason: that'd also mean that the PC can't hijack drones, which would mean that there would be no reason for them to be able to hack things like security cameras, which would mean that they can't do much.

Moving on to your questions:
1. A drone has a node and so does the commlink. Both can communicate directly with each other, or they can relay their signal through other nodes if they are too far apart from one another. Everything can be hacked to successfully hack the drone: the commlink's node, the drone's node, the signal itself and any node in the way.

2. Yes you can use a cable, but that's not very easy to use. Laser can be done too, but you'll need to have a direct LoS to your drones.


Can the Drone's pilot run a Stealth Program to make it harder for a Hacker to even find the Drone via the Matrix in the first place?
Nightwalker450
QUOTE (Jonny Reload @ May 23 2008, 09:57 AM) *
Can the Drone's pilot run a Stealth Program to make it harder for a Hacker to even find the Drone via the Matrix in the first place?


Stealth only hides someone in a node. It doesn't hide your signal. Operating in hidden mode does (Threshold 15+ to find using Scan program)
DireRadiant
Your drones will be at risk. If they weren't, where would the fun be?

You can give your drone some commands, tell it to ignore any signals till after it's done, but then you are relying on the drone pilot to do the job correctly. Who needs to be a rigger to do this? No one.

You can actively monitor and defend your drone from hack attempts. You do need to be a Hacker/Rigger to do this. Yay! Something for a rigger to do!

You can make an anthropomorphic drone, have it ignore any external signals, and only accept your skin link signals and control. Wow, something really cool a rigger can do.

What fun would SR be if everyone only shot at things that couldn't shoot back? smile.gif
Blade
A few things you can do to make it harder to hack your drones:

* Rely on the drone's Pilot and turn off the wireless connection
* Run the nodes in hidden mode (harder to find)
* Encrypt the data transfers (with an encrypt program)
* Require admin access for controlling the drone (+6 threshold modifier to hack the drone)
* Load high rating pilots/firewalls on the drones
* Adapt the drone's signal to the distance you are from the drones: no need to have it connect to nodes 300m away if you are only 50m behind it.

This should help.
Jonny Reload
QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ May 23 2008, 03:00 PM) *
Stealth only hides someone in a node. It doesn't hide your signal. Operating in hidden mode does (Threshold 15+ to find using Scan program)


That's what I needed, thanks! (Although no node can stay hidden for long, since the extended action for Scanning happens every round.)
Jonny Reload
QUOTE (Blade @ May 23 2008, 03:16 PM) *
A few things you can do to make it harder to hack your drones:

* Rely on the drone's Pilot and turn off the wireless connection
* Run the nodes in hidden mode (harder to find)
* Encrypt the data transfers (with an encrypt program)
* Require admin access for controlling the drone (+6 threshold modifier to hack the drone)
* Load high rating pilots/firewalls on the drones
* Adapt the drone's signal to the distance you are from the drones: no need to have it connect to nodes 300m away if you are only 50m behind it.

This should help.


Now that's a very useful list! I appreciate the advice!
Cthulhudreams
Also, as ever drone is a node, you should have a R3 agent which you crack and then load onto everything you own, and arm it with analyze and attack which it can manage around the drone's autosoft requirements.
Backgammon
You could also run a wire from your commlink to the drone. That may sound silly, but in some situations it could actually work.

'Course the opposition may figure it out and cut the wire.

Also, you could instruct the drone Pilot to operate without wireless signal, but to turn it on every 20 minutes or so and check for new orders from you, or to transmit a status blurp (if doing recon). Limits your window of vulnerability.
Nightwalker450
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ May 23 2008, 10:39 AM) *
Also, as ever drone is a node, you should have a R3 agent which you crack and then load onto everything you own, and arm it with analyze and attack which it can manage around the drone's autosoft requirements.


Just note drones usually have a system rating 3
Agent, Analyze, Attack, Pilot = 4 Programs, reducing response/system
And this is without having any autosofts running...

Loading agents into drones usually doesn't work too well.
nezumi
Yes, you can make your drones 100% tamper proof. Simply fire them into the sun.

In truth, no, it is effectively impossible to make any system secure in that, to be secure, it must not be able to do any process it is not 'supposed' to do, and the only way to guarantee that, is to make sure it can't process anything at all (unless, of course, it is supposed to continue doing something, in which case you're stuck there too because a failure of availability is a security failure). So your goal isn't to make it completely secure, but rather to make sure the cost of breaking into the drone is less than how much the drone is worth.

There are a lot of ways of doing this (and one is to reduce the worth of the drone. Generally your drone's worth is based not on how much you can sell it for, but the value of the job it is doing. Therefore, if you reallocate your resources such that is is not responsible for high-value jobs, your entire system becomes more secure because you've reduced the impact of that particular vulnerability being compromised.) Another way is to stop transmitting your orders through the public air-space. It's pretty well established in Shadowrun that encryption is worth very little, however encryption is THE #1 tool used for secure transmissions right now. So whenever possible, avoid allowing wireless communication.

I'm going to assume here that you have a drone which cannot be any cheaper than it is, changing its particular duties increase the overall security risk or cost of the job, and you cannot completely eliminate the necessity of wireless communications. So instead let's go with this...

Firstly, make the drone as independent as possible. Higher pilot rating, better orders, etc. Also, consider turning off your drone's transmitter, or have it only transmit as necessary - i.e. the situation has changed. If the transmitter is off, it can't be wirelessly hacked. The downside is you won't get data from the drone, so you better trust it's been set up right.

Secondly, like I said, reduce how much the system has to transmit. If it only transmits when something has changed, and sends only a single, still picture, it will be hard to get a trace on it. Similarly, if you don't ever give orders, no one will have enough of a sample available to crack the encryption. Radio silence is golden.

Thirdly, security through obscurity isn't great, but at least it's something. A simple fix to a drone's AI can make it much more difficult to hack. For instance, instead of getting the English OS, get the German one, with all commands in German. Similarly, for the full VR experience, with significant hardware modifications, you may be able to alter the protocols sufficiently for it to be unfamiliar to most users. This is really only a very temporary measure - in the information age, interpreting information is generally easy, however it may buy you some time.

Fourth, if your GM is amiable to it, do go with a one-time pad. An example of this is the RSA SecureID. You have a token that changes its information every thirty seconds. The drone has an identical copy. It can keep verifying you have the number before it accepts commands. This is not supported by canon, but you may be able to talk a GM into allowing it anyway.
Mordinvan
QUOTE (nezumi @ May 23 2008, 09:19 AM) *
Fourth, if your GM is amiable to it, do go with a one-time pad. An example of this is the RSA SecureID. You have a token that changes its information every thirty seconds. The drone has an identical copy. It can keep verifying you have the number before it accepts commands. This is not supported by canon, but you may be able to talk a GM into allowing it anyway.


Used to do that in 3rd ed, all the time, and not just with drones. although we had several gigs worth of preprogramed codes, and had it switch out every few seconds, usually less then 3
Aaron
It occurs to me that it takes more time to decrypt something than it takes for an armed drone to turn a hacker into a fine red mist.

Just sayin'.
DireRadiant
Lesson number one I learned in Aaron's game to protect the drones.

Do not have the drone fly where the lightning bolt casting vampire can see it!
Tiger Eyes
Technomancers may be able to make hack-proof drones. They can put a registered sprite in a drone, disable the drone's wireless ability, then use the Technomancer-Sprite Link to communicate orders to the sprite. Regardless of if the sprite controls the drone or simply issues orders to the drone's pilot, no one can hack it wirelessly...

Now, vampires casting lightning bolts will still be effective... which just goes to show how cool Aaron's game must be. wink.gif
WearzManySkins
I have found in SR3 and SR4 if you wish/want a unhackable drone, have it connected via a fiber optic line. The fiber optic line's sheath can be made of flat black coloring, armored with 2070 version of Kevlar weave and use the same principle as the catalyst stick which makes the line disintegrate when the fiber optic line usefulness in a situation is no longer needed.

I have had a rotodrone that carried a spool for such line and never used the air waves for communication back to the rigger.

WMS
Daier Mune
i would think the best option is a layered defense and a vigiliant overwatch. high stealth and encryption programs with plenty of ECCM.
Aaron
She wasn't a vampire.
DireRadiant
Bah, allow us our theories! I don't think we plan to go and find out whether or not she is.
masterofm
In Arsenal you can have a laser sensor on your drone. You can basically load it with that, and use the smartlink laser on your gun to transmit instructions via almost morris code (but much much much faster morris code.) All it will do is look like you are shooting a solid beam at the drone, but actually you are giving it instructions. Makes the drone impossible to hack, and very hard to figure out the pattern especially if you have a randomizer in the drone and your laser finder so although you can talk to your drone, if someone doesn't actually rip your smartlink off of your gun and use it themselves then you are pretty much in the clear.... and if they do rip off your smartlink and use it... well your probably boned anyways at that point.

As a rigger I switched it up a lot depending on what I thought I was going up against. Some drones had anti wifi paint coating them and did not broadcast or receive signals, with pre-programed orders (with a small amount of agent freewill) and could only obtain orders by physically docking with my flyspy (roto drones,) or my vehicle (most any other drone) to receive further orders via a custom docking port. The only way you could hack it is if you subdued the drone(s,) physically broke them open, and then hacked them.

Others used the laser system. Sometimes the laser system would have hardlined orders that would shutdown the drone, or clear it's command orders, or just reboot the system to defaults if the drone started acting up (so the rest of the team could disable or give the drone basic commands without having to slag that expensive piece of equipment.) Some drones had false nodes that only contained three rating six agents. Two of the agents had blackhammer and were instructed to blackhammer the hell out of any signal they received, while the third agent scanned to see if the order was legit or not. If the order was legit then it would pass it to the actual drone if I had it set up to receive signals. This tactic generally killed most hackers though if they try any funny business. Generally those drones would be recalled every fifty five minutes and have their OS, and firewall changed to prevent passive hacker intrusion as well.

As a rigger you don't use just one end all be all move. If you have multiple fail safes, hidden suprises, data bombs, and different tactics you are pretty much unhackable, and heaven help the hacker who tries to take over one of your drones.
Cthulhudreams
QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ May 23 2008, 11:07 AM) *
Just note drones usually have a system rating 3
Agent, Analyze, Attack, Pilot = 4 Programs, reducing response/system
And this is without having any autosofts running...

Loading agents into drones usually doesn't work too well.



First, security drones are R4. Most of the serious drones used by runners are sec drones.

Secondly, pilot on drones == system and is NOT and independantly running program.

So you can indeed have an agent with Analyze running AND two autosofts, and just have the agent switch analyze for attack as required. Hell, even if you want to argue abotu pilot = system, you can still have just one autosoft on the steel lynx and you're still cruisy.
WeaverMount
>As a rigger you don't use just one end all be all move. If you have multiple fail safes, hidden suprises, data bombs, and different tactics you are pretty >much unhackable, and heaven help the hacker who tries to take over one of your drones.

I maybe a little biased, but i think this is the way to go. IMO being able to handle anything is the way to go. If it is impossible to stop someone from taking your drones it isn't worth it to play a rigger. On the flip side if there is a single move to totally secure your drones that also erodes the archetype. If such a move exists then it doesn't take skill and combat actions to field drones, just money. In that case the mage will rock you as a rigger. Overwatch on your drone network is a huge part of what separates a rigger from mechanic.

That all said, one of the scariest riggers is a possession mage. Then again they are scary all combat and anything linked to there drain stat.
nezumi
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 23 2008, 01:08 PM) *
It occurs to me that it takes more time to decrypt something than it takes for an armed drone to turn a hacker into a fine red mist.


Actually a strong point. While you may not be able to do without wireless connectivity, it is prudent to control it as much as possible. This can be done primarily through two methods:
1) Positioning - a wireless connection by a window is far more vulnerable than one placed in the center of the building (since the one by the window can be contacted by someone out in the parking lot, while the one in the middle of the building is better protected). Look for EM shadows when positioning drones. This is time consuming, however, and not something corps generally do, but depending on what you're up to, it may be a good idea.
2) Reduce the transmission power of your drone. Sure, the hacker can still send messages to the drone, but without any feedback, you're going to have a tough time actually hacking it. You can voluntarily reduce the transmission rating of your drone down to the absolute minimum necessary. Since Shadowrun doesn't support better receivers augmenting a poor transmitter's range, that means the hacker actually has to get within that range to interfere with the drone. This can be well supported by having a second remote receiver of your own - preferably with a hardline cable. So imagine - you have a rating 1 receiver/transmitter with a hardline cable leading back to the rigger's van, a matrix hookup or somesuch. The transmitter connects remotely to your drone, with its own rating 1 transmitter/receiver. Combined, this greatly reduces your vulnerability.
annachie
QUOTE (masterofm @ May 24 2008, 02:49 PM) *
via almost morris code .


I've just got this picture in my head of a rigger dancing around with a gun in one hand and waving a handkerchief or a stick with the other. lol

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