First a little info about my campaign:

Playing Harlequin where the runners have become involved in the fight between 2 elven polyclubs (Technologists & Assoc. Para-Nobilis).
They managed to get info about the APN from a journalist contact who had been gathering info about the APN leaders.
The bad news is that the APN had her tagged for death and sniped her when she just had a meeting with the runners.

The runners cleaned everything up to the best of their abilities but they didn't have a lot of time before Lone Star arrived (A class neigbourhood, panic button with biomonitor alert from journalist).
They also swiped quite a lot of stuff from her appartment (spy drones, burgling/snooping tech registered by her firm).

Now I'm planning on introducing LS detectives Stonewall and Mason next session knocking on the players door asking some dangerous questions.
(They have legal SINs, so they can find their adress).

The detectives have a lot of assumptions but no hard evidence, so unless the runners screw up they shouldn't be able to charge the runners with anything.
What I'm looking for is ideas to really make the runners sweat.

- I was thinking about having 1 of the cops having a sustained 'Detect Thruth' spell active, and really grill them about where they were around the time the murder happened. (Dangerous question because their car was spotted in the neigbourhood around the time of the kill)
- What kind of test should I let the Hacker make to make sure all tags and registrations are removed from the drones and equipment.
- Exactly what would Lone Star need to get a search Warrant for their houses/cars?

Thanx,
WM

you realize of course, that this means almost 100% probability of LS getting something to charge them with?


is there someone with magics in the group that could maybe detect the spell?


probably perception/observe in detail and electronics or something like that . . if he doesn'T just decide to fry anything with a high power tag-remover


not much . . if they really wanna they will just hire some other runners to place evidence somewhere . .

These are only the preliminary investigations, although LS desperately needs a scapegoat as this happened in an uptown neigbourhood.
LS problem is that the runners have a clean sheet and a genuine explanation why they were there. They can't afford to falsely accuse people (yet ) .
LS handling will depend on what the runners give as answers I guess.

Yep, but it would mean 3 hits on the perception roll (Spell would be Force 3).

ok, I'll probably treat is as a rush job because he only had a couple of hours to erase everything.
Wouldn't removing serial nrs on her commlink/equipment make the commlink illegal by default?

I doubt they would go that far unless the runners screw up big time with their answers.
The problem is that a house search will turn up quite some illegal stuff/programs used in other shootouts/hacks .

Depending on the state you can hold a person without formally charging them for 24-36 hours. This means they get taken in the paddy wagon, processed through central booking (hands printed, biometric scan of the head, pictures of any tattoos to the national tattoo database, etc.). If they have any illegal cyberware without the proper permits they get fined one of those nice things dropping through the mail box in their new apartement.

This is then followed up by as many hours of interrogation as the detectives want. Depending on how law abiding they are this could involve 16 hours of interrogation after which a skillful interrogator can make them confess to having been a part of the assassination of JFK and of burying Jimmy Hoffa at the 50 yard line.

Furthermore as they are at central booking the detectives can get warrants for their apartments and vehicles, which means they had better explain themselves when they show all sorts of devices they stole from the journalist and other illegal items.

They could then be formally charged under the RICO act.

Under RICO, a person or group who commits any two of 35 crimes—27 federal crimes and 8 state crimes—within a 10-year period and, in the opinion of the United States Attorney bringing the case, has committed those crimes with similar purpose or results can be charged with racketeering. Those found guilty of racketeering can be fined up to $25,000 and/or sentenced to 20 years in prison per racketeering count. In addition, the racketeer must forfeit all ill-gotten gains and interest in any business gained through a pattern of "racketeering activity."

When the U.S. Attorney decides to indict someone under RICO, he has the option of seeking a pre-trial restraining order or injunction to temporarily seize a defendant's assets and prevent the transfer of potentially forfeitable property, as well as require the defendant to put up a performance bond. This provision was placed in the law because the owners of Mafia-related shell corporations often absconded with the assets. An injunction and/or performance bond ensures that there is something to seize in the event of a guilty verdict.

In many cases, the threat of a RICO indictment can force defendants to plead guilty to lesser charges, in part because the seizure of assets would make it difficult to pay a defense attorney. Despite its harsh provisions, a RICO-related charge is considered easy to prove in court, as it focuses on patterns of behavior as opposed to criminal acts.

damn lawyers! It gives me chills thinking what they can do!! Scary.

Cheers.

Max

1 - Magic is not admissable in UCAS courts, and, if the Defence Attorney found out that any kind of spell was used to "Force" a confession (Including a "Detect Truth" spell), the entire case would be thrown out, along with any other evidence found out about afterwards (Such as illegal cybernetics and so on) as that evidence was gathered using "Poisoned Fruit".

2 - Depends on when you're running the game. Easier in 2050, harder in 2070.

3 - About the same thing that's needed nowadays. "Hey, do you smell gas?" "Yeah, I do. Time to search the house." Or an "Anonymous Tip" from a guy that sounded suspiciously like the Desk Seargent calling from a Payphone a block and a half away from the precinct house. (OK, maybe I exaggerate here, but, honestly, it's Lone Star, they can afford to pay a Judge to sign off on anything.). That's for the house.

For the car, oh... Now here's where it gets nasty. Lone Star is a AA-Level Coporation. It has Extraterritorial Rights. Lone Star's main business is security. A secondary concern? Parking. I kid you not, Parkaides. You park there, you're on their territory, and they can search to their heart's content. Then, after they're done gathering the evidence, you'll be "Extradited" to "UCAS Soil and Law Officials therein", which, hey, look, it's Bob that went to the Academy with Ralph the guy working the security at Lone Star's Park-Master Parkaide.

Moral of the story, watch where you park, and make sure the Lone Star Logo is *NOT* anywhere on the sign.

Magic evidence such as Detect Truth and the like are not admissible in court (in the UCAS), but as far as I know there are no such restrictions on using Magic to actually investigate crimes, as long as other, non-magic oriented evidence is found to use in court.

Ah, but evidence discovered legally through evidence discovered by illegal means gets thrown out as well...if the defense can prove the illegal searches happened, and that they led to other discoveries that wouldn't have been made otherwise. Given the setting and how hard that is to prove (assuming the illegally gathered evidence is never presented, just used to find more evidence, "legally"), any investigative force can pretty much have carte blanche to search your stuff. It all depends on the honor of the detectives involved, how certain they are the suspects actually did something, and what sort of hurry they're in/political pressure they're under.

Now, it was a nice neighborhood, but a journalist isn't very important typically. So, while they need a solution, they probably aren't being forced to find someone ASAP by their boss, since it's unlikely anyone important is breathing down LS's necks on that one. Assuming they have a decent cover story, the cops aren't completely corrupt, and that there's not evidence linking them directly to the scene of the murder, it's unlikely your runners would be under too much scrutiny. After all, they have SIN's, and there's no evidence they're runners (I hope) outright available. Thus spells, and other costly/specialized means of investigation, probably aren't going to be used, at least at first.

Now, if no other leads turn up, or the cops are the suspicious sort, things could get interesting from there.

maybe i should have bolded that part, but i meant that the probability of the characters fucking up was 100% and thus the probability of LS having something against them was close to 100% *g*

Here is how the conversation goes.

" I know you did it and you know you did it. I know that you didn't leave any usable evidence and you know you didn't leave any usable evidence. We all know that I don't give a flying frag whether you left evidence or not, chummers, because I can always man-u-facture something con-clu-sive and in-con-tro-vertible that points directly at you. Or I can man-u-facture something con-clu-sive and in-con-tro-vertible that points to some poor SINless fellow. Whoever is arrested will, of course, get shanked to death by incorrigible ol'e Bubba long before the case gets to trial. Which one of those would you gentlemen prefer? - 'Shanked' is a euphemism, by the way."

"Yeah, I think we can work something out."

My point was that I don't believe that the use of Detect Truth and the like are considered 'illegal means'. They are merely inadmissible in UCAS courtrooms.

Detect Truth is basically like a polygraph. It isn't illegal but it is unreliable. Detect Truth is resisted, meaning that it is very easy to get false-negatives. You can't possibly know if the guy is lying through his teeth or if he just has high Willpower. This is why if you suspect that someone is using Detect Truth you should lie about everything without exception, so that he'll never detect anything from you and he'll assume that you just resisted the spell.

i can see it now . . the big muscular beardy troll gets asked:"are you a man?"
Troll replies:"no sir!"
Mage:"he's . . telling the truth?"

I'm a might confused on the idea that magic doesn't hold up in court. In the "And so it came to pass..." sections of the various editions, it's been mentioned that a mage talked to a spirit about a murder and that testimony held up in court. That tells me evidence obtained magically *can* suffice in a courtroom. So where did I miss the line about magically gathered evidence being inadmissible?

After Dunkie died, there was a BIG Hullaballo about how the commission investigating his assassination was using Magic against the questioned people, "Against their civil rights" and were able to get away with it. And then also mentioned how such items were not admissable in court.

In more "Enlightened" places dealing with the awakened, magic is admissable. Hell, some places are stated to have Free Spirits standing as JUDGES, as they're less likely to be bribeable. And, frankly, how do you threaten a Free Spirit to get some bigwig Mobster go? (Points to first story in Sig to demonstrate pissed off Free Spirits in action!).

You don 't threaten it or bribe it; you bind it and spend a Service to get the bigwig mobster released. Unlike mortal Judges, Spirit Judges can be enslaved.

Spectral evidence (spirit testimony, dreams, divination) is inadmissible in the UCAS and most other sane jurisdictions due to unreliability but nothing prevents a magician from using it in the investigation. Forensic magic, however, is a well-established science and reliable forensic magics are widely admissible. Mind Probe and other intrusive detection spells are a matter of individual liberties and their admissibility varries between jurisdictions. UCAS courts consider forcible mind-probing to be compelling testimony in violation of the protections against self-incrimination and one cannot get a court order for it, but if the suspect gave permission for the mind-probe then that is a totally different story. Other jurisdictions with less emphasis on metahuman rights might be more liberal with the law enforcement use of invasive detection spells.

I think it's maybe a good time to show them just what a dystopian setting SR really is and that not only runners can play dirty.
I just went through my old LS book. Pretty cool stuff, I really wouldn't want to be busted.
Especially not as a magician.

It's of course ironic that the one time they are doing innocent stuff they could get busted.

The positive thing for them is that they still have a LS detective friend/contact from a former run who might be willing to believe and help them out (for a certain price/task of course ).
Never mind that they are really going to hate the APN now. (Nicely puppeteered by old Harley )

There's a contradiction right there.


Which would point to a third party, making the runners wittnesses first.


Why did they 'clean up'? What did they 'clean up'?


Of course, they could be charged for theft.


A real ID means nothing, sorry. There is no inherent benefit of a forged ID other than it's previous story being false.

As soon as you have multiple IDs, it all depends on which you use for what.
If they did use an ID on the job that isn't linked to where they live, there goes your idea.


Don't forget Spell resistance.


Hardware, extended. Even Gangs do that for revenue...


They need to know where they really live... see ID question. Then the theft would be the most obvious reason - if there are witnesses of them carrying lots of stuff out.

One thing that jumps out at me is the problem of WHY?

If Lone Star has unlimited resources at their disposal, all of this makes sense just fine. Without it...

Shadowrun is a game of balances. Runners shouldn't be able to exist in a corporate driven ultra tech world. They just plain should NOT be able to stay in business for more than a single Run or two unless they relocate half way across the planet (and maybe not even then) in a world of data mining software and instant matrix connectivity for every Tom, Dick, and Harry who has a Comm Link and all of the other perks that go with ultra technology...and this doesn't even take magic in to account. When you do that, no Runner who isn't also an Initiate with a good deal of Masking ability AND a fair amount at the least of techno-savvy should be able to stay out of the hands of the powers that be for even a few hours if they set about looking for him.

Runners just don't have access to the resources necessary to stop the corps from finding them. Period. Unless...

As a DM you HAVE TO keep a sense of perspective when running this game. You HAVE TO have a good reason to beat up the Players...and this is a low intensity version of beating up the PLAYERS (not their characters) with the near omnipotence that any Sec agency can bring to bear ... logically.

Prepare to admit to yourself as a DM that it is best to simply throw logic out of the window and do what works for the story instead. And it doesn't work for the story to beat on the Players for the actions their characters take in game unless you feel that what they did constitutes a screw up. It's a way of telling the Players that they let something slip.


Isshia

Sure, but it's not like LS will take their word for it. There is no evidence for a 3rd party and the APN has a very peaceful public image.
The runners are the most likely suspects, as they were present around the time of death and were ID-ed by witnesses when leaving the scene.

The mess in the doorway. They were just saying goodbye to her when the hit happened.
They dragged her body in the doorway so not to alert passing people. Then they went through her stuff in a hurry.

I'm not beating on my players.
They just happened to be in the right place at the wrong time, but they have plenty of options to wiggle their way out of it (or completely screw up of course).
I'm just playing the LS detectives and their resources as competent.
They need to give this the proper attention because a couple of weeks ago a news crew of the same company went missing and turned up dead.

Of course there is: A rifle bullet burried inside a wall, at an angle and depth that screams 'sniper'.
LS won't suspect the APN, they will just suspect someone across the street, shooting over the heads of somebody else. Why? Because:

That is exactly why the detectives are playing nice for a while. The evidence is inconclusive and they can't afford bad media.
The presence of a sniper doesn't help clear the runners, since it could be one of them that fired the shot .

It clears everyone that was seen in the hallway at that moment - at least for the murder itself.

The theft is another kettle of fish... and most likely used as leverage to make them cooperate as witnesses... or even to use them to investigate where LS can't.

That's the problem. Play Lone Star in a truly competent manner and no Runner team in existence ever has so much as a ghost of a chance. Lone Star is a double A mega with resources they can allocate that no Runner team can get in to shouting distance of in the ultra tech/magically awakened sixth world. You can't play Lone Star as anything even vaguely like as competent as they really are without beating on the Players... ESPECIALLY if the Players did nothing to warrant things and were just "right place at wrong timing".

This is a weird situation that comes about because of the meta-background. The Corps HAVE TO be incompetent for the Runners to operate more than once. I know it's only reasonable and I know that it "makes sense" for the Star boys to drop in on them, but it HURTS verisimilitude in this case to be reasonable and to make sense. Like I said, it's dicotomous.

If you drop them in at all, make it readily apparent that the Players DID screw up big time, royally in fact, in that they've been doing runs while still holding SINs. THAT is why the Star is there, entirely.


Isshia

Lone Star is a AA Megacorp, yes, but it is something more important than that; it's the lowest bidder. Being the lowest bidder means getting the least amount of money for the contract. Somehow, you have to pay your officers, buy equipment, train officers, maintain equipment, and etc. while still making a relatively large profit. The only way to do that is to cut corners. Hell, they must cut whole sides.

When Lone Star initially bids on a contract they don't have enough personnel to fulfill that contract. Instead, when they get the contract, they immediatly use the money that they're being paid to hire local people and give them the bare minimum of training before sending them out onto the streets with guns and badges. All training, salaries, and equipment are paid for using the local budget, which is the contract value - a reasonable profit. Local Lone Star departments do not see any support or equipment from the main office unless they pay for it. That's just the way it has to be done because if it wasn't done that way then Lone Star would go out of business.

Add to that the Beauracracy that is inherant in the system, corruption from a variety of different people, corporate infighting and politics, and so on...

Honestly... Lone Star is probably less competent as the Cops are IRL right now. Which means they stop the most obvious crimes pretty well (Which are the majority), are decent at investigating things, and catch the rare professional.

Professionals, however, are better trained and experienced than most police are, are paid a hell of a lot better, and can afford to take more time and effort into things than the Cops can. On the flip side, they have less of a support structure.

Want to make things scary? Let the group go up against forces that don't have the budgetary restrictions that Lone Star has... Security forces for AA and AAA Corporations! They don't have to guard as much, get much better equipment and support, and don't have to answer to any stupid UCAS laws, as they're their own countries.

"Hello, this is Doc Wagon! Hello Officer Friendly. Shooting? Oh yes, there was a few discharges of firearms, however none penetrated the walls, so no UCAS citizens outside our territory was harmed. No, you may not enter to investigate, we have our own security doing so. No, no, it's a non-issue. Thank you. *Click* OK, harvest the bodies. Looks like we have a special on Second-Hand Troll Cyberlimbs this week."

Even with low bidder this is a corp designed to do the job of enforcement AND detection. Check the sections in the Lone Star Sourcebook. Their Forensics labs aren't local for one thing. They use the Corps facility in Austin which is supposed to be one of the finest in the Sixth World, a rival to the best of the best of the FBI. If you know anything at all about Investigations, if the FBI wants to put their hands on you and they have an even relatively localized area in which you probably are residing, they WILL put their hands on you in very short order, in main part because of the excellence of their forensics work. If the Forensics Units are supposed to rival the FBI and there is a localized area...syonara baby... IF it were played anywhere even vaguely NEAR up to snuff, just on the strength of that alone.

Now add the Elite Units, which are no joke either, and it matters less and less whether or not the average street cop gets tons of toys or not, as long as they aren't completely incompetent the not so average boys, like the ones doing the investigations, backed up by the best forensics possible, WILL have your butt very quickly... or would if they were played anywhere NEAR the bottom end of their reasonable capabilities.


Isshia