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Yum Donuts
Ok, I was reading the "how to make money" thread, and this occured to me. how often have people done character-initiated runs? you know you guys are always sent out after a group who has kidnapped the daughter of a corp exec, or to kill someone who has some blackmail, well what if the characters came up to the GM and said "we want to kidnap this person and ransom her" or "can I call this guy and blackmail him with this info?"

I realize it's alot of work for the GM to react to this stuff at the drop of a hat, but that's part of the fun of it. and the players get to be on the defensive against another group of runners. and heck, there's always the chance that the guy will just pay up, and it's easy money.

anyways, anyone have any ideas or any experience they'd like to share?
thunderchild
as an exercise in idiocy, when i was co-gming a game about 3 years ago, the other gm and i decided that the characters had gotten too powerful and we wanted them to retire.

We told them out of character they could either mastermind their retirement run, drum up enough cash to disappear, or we could do one.

they did it.

they gathered a whole hunk of blackmail evidence on key local and small time international corperations stuff that would have made stock prices plummet, tapped out there capital and borrowed heavily from loan sharks, they presented the blackmail evidence to the key shareholders and bought all the shares at somewhere between what they were at now, and what they would be when the evidence got to the media.

The next day they controled about 10 different companies with atleast a 51% majority, and alot of others with close to 50 and enough swing (or bribed members) to effectively control another 10, a round of votes at their companies later and they formed effectively a AA rated corp, with the value of their shares in these now IRON CLAD financialy secure companies, they sold off 5% to a guy who owns a big accounting firm to pay off their debts and then retired, being members of the board of the company.

The damn thing was a pain in the ass to GM but it was a stroke of genius.
Tanka
eek.gif
Traks
Ah yes, my players often take their own routes.
So it really takes a lot of planning, just to react to their moves.
But after time most them become quite predictable.

And yes, it is more fun than just being active and telling story.
If they create a story, it feels much better.

Oh, and they usually leave runs half-ended and wonder when their past comes back, haunting them and hitting with big ugly stick smile.gif
3Threes
sounds like alot of fun
Phaeton
QUOTE (thunderchild)
as an exercise in idiocy, when i was co-gming a game about 3 years ago, the other gm and i decided that the characters had gotten too powerful and we wanted them to retire.

We told them out of character they could either mastermind their retirement run, drum up enough cash to disappear, or we could do one.

they did it.

they gathered a whole hunk of blackmail evidence on key local and small time international corperations stuff that would have made stock prices plummet, tapped out there capital and borrowed heavily from loan sharks, they presented the blackmail evidence to the key shareholders and bought all the shares at somewhere between what they were at now, and what they would be when the evidence got to the media.

The next day they controled about 10 different companies with atleast a 51% majority, and alot of others with close to 50 and enough swing (or bribed members) to effectively control another 10, a round of votes at their companies later and they formed effectively a AA rated corp, with the value of their shares in these now IRON CLAD financialy secure companies, they sold off 5% to a guy who owns a big accounting firm to pay off their debts and then retired, being members of the board of the company.

The damn thing was a pain in the ass to GM but it was a stroke of genius.

...I...Cannot even begin to describe how insane that is. Other than simply eek.gif
thunderchild
QUOTE (Phaeton)
QUOTE (thunderchild @ Dec 13 2003, 06:52 PM)
as an exercise in idiocy, when i was co-gming a game about 3 years ago, the other gm and i decided that the characters had gotten too powerful and we wanted them to retire.

We told them out of character they could either mastermind their retirement run, drum up enough cash to disappear, or we could do one.

they did it.

they gathered a whole hunk of blackmail evidence on key local and small time international corperations stuff that would have made stock prices plummet, tapped out there capital and borrowed heavily from loan sharks, they presented the blackmail evidence to the key shareholders and bought all the shares at somewhere between what they were at now, and what they would be when the evidence got to the media.

The next day they controled about 10 different companies with atleast a 51% majority, and alot of others with close to 50 and enough swing (or bribed members) to effectively control another 10, a round of votes at their companies later and they formed effectively a AA rated corp,  with the value of their shares in these now IRON CLAD financialy secure companies, they sold off 5% to a guy who owns a big accounting firm to pay off their debts and then retired, being members of the board of the company.

The damn thing was a pain in the ass to GM but it was a stroke of genius.

...I...Cannot even begin to describe how insane that is. Other than simply eek.gif

Well as it turned out, the players had gotten together and decided that they wanted their characters to still be IN the game, even if they couldnt be, so they cooked up this hair brained scheme.
Dash Panther

You can use those retired characters as NPCs for whatever new team the players make.
thunderchild
QUOTE (Dash Panther)
You can use those retired characters as NPCs for whatever new team the players make.

we did for ages, that place was nigh on impossible to infiltrate because my players characters wrote the company security policies.
Moonstone Spider
I like that kind of run but it takes a certain kind of GM to manage it. In general, before the game starts, you can ask the GM to provide a "Hook" to an item the character really wants, and then build a run around them stealing it. This can be extremely hard, however, because usually each team member wants something different and it can be pretty stupid to create a vault mysteriously containing a drone with a class 5 robotic brain, a panther assault cannon, and a force 6 pole-arm weapon foci. So although I find those kind of runs really the most likely ones to happen, they rarely due simply because of the difficulty of the GM pulling it off.
Cray74
QUOTE (Yum Donuts)
Ok, I was reading the "how to make money" thread, and this occured to me. how often have people done character-initiated runs? you know you guys are always sent out after a group who has kidnapped the daughter of a corp exec, or to kill someone who has some blackmail, well what if the characters came up to the GM and said "we want to kidnap this person and ransom her" or "can I call this guy and blackmail him with this info?"

I realize it's alot of work for the GM to react to this stuff at the drop of a hat, but that's part of the fun of it. and the players get to be on the defensive against another group of runners. and heck, there's always the chance that the guy will just pay up, and it's easy money.

anyways, anyone have any ideas or any experience they'd like to share?

Yeah, I've done two types of character initiated runs (or adventures).

In World of Darkness/Vampire, it was very common for vampiric characters to have their own goals and plots (build a corporate empire, become a city's primogen, etc.). The GM adjudicated them on the fly. It took a lot of thinking on the GM's feet to keep up with this, but the situation was helped because the PCs were operating in a very well-defined world (ours, more or less) where the GM knew how politics, economics, and finances worked, at least well enough to keep the game playable and enjoyable. The world was further defined because there was a large pool of well-defined NPCs, and where there were gaps ("Gee, I never thought about the Toreador Primogen's childer until you decided to kidnap him...") it was easy to deduce and extrapolate NPCs to fill the gaps ("...but since the primogen is 6th generation and 543 years old, the childer would be 7th gen and...say...127 years old. Which means you're going to have a challenge kidnapping the goober, oh 13th generation kid wonders.") So the GM knew who the PCs were interacting with and could quickly guess when the PCs stepped on someone's toes, what the consequences of PC actions were, and how the world would change as a result of PC actions.

Basically, the GM ran an ongoing storyline and determined when the PCs intercepted an event during their meanderings through the setting. The GM also actively strove to arrange for events to intercept the PCs - you could NOT rely on a static, strongly scripted adventure. You had to sketch out a few points and a general plot, and then adapt it to whatever the PCs were doing. Like when they were racing toward a certain vampire's haven to kidnap him, you had their nondescript van cross the path of the Sabbat raiding party (or vice versa).

Damn hard to pull off, and damn fun, especially when the PCs managed to achieve their goals AND you managed to get them through most of the plot points.

The second way I've seen character-initiated runs is in Shadowrun, and it was a run, not just roleplaying toward some personal goals of the PCs. This was a bit more difficult because it required intense GM-player cooperation on writing the adventure and there was always the question, "Are the players just dictating an adventure to the GM?" The players set themselves up as a reputable security company and provided security to a simsense studio. They staged a robbery on a warehouse full of uninstalled security gear slated for the studio, pinned the blame on a scape goat who was reportedly killed by the gang he hired (wink wink) to rob the warehouse, and made off like bandits when they resold the looted gear. Of course, their security corp's reputation was ruined, but they weren't caught and made a fortune, so they didn't care. But, again, there was a strong sense that the GM was just completely caving into the players despite all the challenges he threw at us. The GM wrote up the studio in response to player requests, ran the adventure solely for player enjoyment, and gave the players what they wanted. Admittedly, it was very challenging for the PCs to pull the run off, but...

I much prefer the first situation, where the PCs just wander around of their own accord, doing their own things, and find themselves caught up in a bigger story now and then.
Bearclaw
I would pee my pants in joy if my party took enough initiative to propose their own run.
Fenris
As a quick note, one of the SR campaigns I was in for about a year started tossing these sort of runs in the middle of the GM's plot lines. One day the decker and the rigger got together and decided that rather then buy all the electronics gear they wanted, they would order it, and the team could simply hijack the shipment.

The run went off beautifully, but I know the GM, and I know that things went smoothly because of the amount of planning we did (almost 24 hours real time, broken up over three gaming sessions that we spent doing nothing but recon, surveillance, and planning.) Those of us that didn't need high end electronics parts ended up with a nice little pocketful of cash, and the decker and rigger got much better gear then they could have from just buying after runs.

On the important side, everyone had alot of fun as well. We, the players, felt like we were taking an active role in the world, rather then just constantly reacting to things as they came along.
Frag-o Delux
I would say that over 90% of our groups runs are character initated. The first 2 or 3 runs let you get the feel of the character, to feel out how you are going to play them, finalize long term goals in your head. Then you set out to do it. We still take Johnson runs to pay the bills, and make the GMs life a little easier. When I make a character I have a idea in mind and a history on paper, but when I meet the other players I finalize what it is he is going to be. I try to make up his demeanor and outward facade, also his internal character, but the first few runs is when I put it together. After that it is almost always the group putting out what it is they ant to accompolish. I always figured anyone who is as highly skilled and resourceful is not going to be sitting around waiting for somene to call to give them a job, they would be out moving and shaking looking for a score.

Our GM usually reads the histories of the characters to know what it is he'll be dealing with and periodically re-read it for inspiration. And as we play he asks what our long term goals are and tries to pre-write stuff for them. Sometimes we hit him with something we want to do, so I can see him start stalling, by sending us off on errands for out contacts trying to burn up the night so he can write up something the next time we play. Or if it is early and we don't call our fixer for an update on work, he'll wing something but it is still usually a stall. Most times he will not let us back him into a corner and just let us run our him. We did that to often before, we could over run the opposition easily if he didn't have time to think.
Tiralee
Heh - Our too-be-complete adventure is actually organizing a Birthday party for one of the Character's contacts, complete with presents, prizes, Troll ganger bouncers and one really out of place Gunbunny in a Zoe "Second-skin"/Armante Starlight combo, combat boots and a Yamaha "Nuke-be-good" taser.

(Hey, I had to leave the HVAR at home.)


More fun, It's a college crowd, there's a mage wandering about with a force 6 focus or two and I'm invoking "Evil DM" privilages to commit mayhem on the night.

Actually, now's a good time to float suggestions. So far...

1: Daddy (Wealthy) and Mommy (More so) come to collect their darling child for a surprise party.
-Think "Clueless" but the darling daughter had cyber installed with Daddy's tuition funds. (Actually, she got most of them cheap when we raided a few...uh, going off topic here.)

2: The presence of various armed types gets up the nose of local heavies, and they try to muscle in on the action?
-Note to self: Must organise dumpster for posible short-term body storage.
-Note: And ice.

3: Someone decides to try their hand at summoning during the party.
-Note: Get a large dumpster.
- Toxics should be seperated from the rest of the "booty" - they might be carrying something nasty.

4: Lonestar want their cut. And it's going to be a big one.
-Note: Make it two dumpsters?
-Or try for a fast "Organs-R-Us" bunch of leggers?
- I now have this mental image of my Troll Mage partner trying to fasttalk some of Lonestar's finest, while I make a delivery and get paid enough to cover the bribes...

5: Angry parents decending enmass on my security.
-Hell, hire a rigger with a dump-truck?

6: A run goes wrong in the building the club is under, bringing with it the usual mayhem. And trigger-happy security teams.
-Note: "Woo! Yeah! What do you mean, this isn't the entertainment!?"

7: The Mafia/Yaks/Etc come by to close down the bar/club as the usual payments have not been forcoming/money is owed.
-Note: Bring HVAR. And the EX Explosive rounds. And the AV rounds.

8: Critters!
- Note: is there Devil-rat repellent?
- Note: flechette rounds.
- Figure out who brought in the Psima "as a joke" and make an example of them, their friends, their family, any pets, their suburb, etc...

9: Drugs! And Dealers!
- Note: Again with the dumpster.
- Party bags for the guests.

10: Possible infiltration/extraction attempts.
- Note: Handcuffs, Magemasks and the 1km roll of Duct-tape.
- Ares Squirt with psychotrophics, DMSO and Hyper. (No officer, I think he was using drugs outside. Nope, never seen him before. Can I go and see if there's been any damage to the club? Thanks, try and have a nice night too...")

11: Disease!
- Note - Incendary rounds for Vamps. Or is it silver? Hell, load up both.
- Make sure Ghouls get the right party bags.

12: Crime!
- Hell, again with the dumpster. No, I don't care if he's the son of a Senator, he's a date-rapist wannabe and ghoul-McNuggets now. Ok, maybe Ghoul Sushi, but he's still dead.

13: Matrix, Ghosts in the machine!?
- Find a decent decker.
- Find a decent Okatau.
- Note, try to ensure club is isolated from the 'Trix.
- Rigger? Maybe...

Comments, suggestions, flames?
-I want to make this one a memorable run, even if it isn't supposed to be a run.

L.
Siege
The runners have to smuggle a socialite out to her street-rave birthday party.

At the same time, two rival street gangs descend on the party and start feuding. Wiz-gangers at that.

Unknowingly, a mana line (from the SSG) runs under the warehouse, drawing all sorts of free-floating magical critters.

Mom and Dad call out LS to get their daughter back. Unfortunately, Dad has ties with local organized crime who want the daughter as leverage and are looking for the girl as well. Dad, knowing this, has discreetly deployed a couple of corp hitters to scoop his daughter up and return her quietly to avoid public embarassment.

-Siege
FlakJacket
It was either something to do with a PC's background or more usually if the team decided they wanted some nice Shiny New Toys™ but didn't feel like paying for them. Certainly cut down on the expenses and actually turned a profit if we swiped enough stuff to sell on.
D.Generate
One time my group after watching Resivoir dogs one too many times decided they wanted to rob a bank. Let me tell you that was a really interesting session. the only thing i had to do was come up with the layout of the bank and security systems, the rest of the leg work my players came up with as they went. I think self initiated runs only work if the Gm is good at on the spot improv. Otherwise the whole thing could get clunky and not fun for anyone. But like Res. Dogs the players found out nothing is easy and 3 out of the 7 players were dead before the end and most of the money they managed to get was used to cover their tracks, payoff people for help ect. They still made out pretty good but i don't think ther rest will think of doing something like that again.
sidekick
QUOTE (D.Generate)
One time my group after watching Resivoir dogs one too many times decided they wanted to rob a bank. Let me tell you that was a really interesting session. the only thing i had to do was come up with the layout of the bank and security systems, the rest of the leg work my players came up with as they went. I think self initiated runs only work if the Gm is good at on the spot improv. Otherwise the whole thing could get clunky and not fun for anyone. But like Res. Dogs the players found out nothing is easy and 3 out of the 7 players were dead before the end and most of the money they managed to get was used to cover their tracks, payoff people for help ect. They still made out pretty good but i don't think ther rest will think of doing something like that again.

Just a quick side note. Would there even be banks in the traditional sense in 2063? I mean, the UCAS and most of the the world functions on a paperless economy.
D.Generate
Yes i had this discussion with my players but they really wanted to do it. Also in the old Sprawl Sites book they have bank floorplans so there is some kind of banking establishment. I think if I remember correctly that i made it a Corp bank becasue some corps use corp script which is their own currency. This was a few years ago so i can't remember everything..old age kicking in and all, plus I'm sure all the blunt trauma to my brain box from playing hockey and such doesn't help the grey matter hold any info.
Tanka
Paper money is still available, but most people don't use it. It could've just as easily been a type of bond in which ownership is declared only by physically having it in your possession (house, hands, pocket, whatever). Those stocks can then be sold, via a transfer of money and the ownership-bonds, with barely a hassle and no way to trace it.

Said bonds are physical, not electronic, in any way, shape, or form. They could've easily stolen all of those then sold them off to the highest bidder (A Great Dragon, mayhaps?), then paid off all the people who helped them out.

No run is impossible. Some, however, are highly improbable.
Dende
I would also think you could call a run a bank job by going into a "bank" (server which keeps track of account status) and downloading money directly onto credsticks...

However I have heard that paper money is still around too, like tanka, I heard it merely wasn't in common use anymore.
moosegod
Aztlan has it still. I don't think the UCAS does, however.
Fortune
If I'm not mistaken, the UCAS most definitely still has paper money, as do most, if not all countries in the Sixth World. smile.gif
The Jake
Just to bump this.

In Corporate Shadowfiles, the traditional "bank heist" scenario could be substituted with bearer bonds, which are effectively as good as cash.

You may recall that the first Die Hard film was about a heist of $640 million worth of negotiable bearer bonds.

How is that for a retirement run? eek.gif

- J.
Velocity
QUOTE
Cray74 wrote:
In World of Darkness/Vampire, it was very common for vampiric characters to have their own goals and plots (build a corporate empire, become a city's primogen, etc.).

Wow, that's creepy: you just described (verbatim, really) the Vampire campaign I've been running off and on for the past six years.

It's entirely PC-driven, I merely react to their wishes and I've still got at least a half-dozen plot threads going at any one time. The players are maniacally clever, exceptionally creative, top-notch roleplayers with many, many years of experience. It's been one of the richest, most fulfilling gaming experiences of my life.

The same group is currently my Shadowrun group and they're bringing the same combination of agency, enthusiasm and initiative to this game. It's a blast AND makes my life easier: I never have to prepare too much. I'm kept busy just reacting to their plans and schemes. smile.gif
Nova
/sniff

QUOTE

The players are maniacally clever, exceptionally creative, top-notch roleplayers with many, many years of experience.


I love you too Velocity....

Nova
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