I've played Shadowrun for a few months so I am relatively familiar with the game mechanics, playing deckers to snipers to ex-yakuza martial artists. However, the next character I am trying to make it based roughly around "Knight Rider" so I am trying to use the arsenal book to help make an advanced and intelligent Westwind 3K. I am setting up the limiting-character creation AI in it with Pilot 4 rating, Autosoft Clearsight 4, etc, etc, with the intent of increasing these once I have done some smuggling and shadowrunning. However, I am trying to figure out how the heck I increase the vehicles sensor rating. I have gone through the index and all the relevant areas with sensor mentioned in the SR4 handbook, and all it has in it are a wide range of sensors that can be placed in a vehicle. In this the sensor rating? Holy crap this is confusing. I just want to increase the vehicle pilot's awareness of its surroundings. Could someone explain how this all works to me?

Thanks

strictly speaking, you have to buy up each sensor's rating separately. when all the sensors are at a given rating or higher, that is the vehicle's sensor rating.

this leads to all kinds of silliness (such as having to remove certain kinds of unrated sensors and/or using fewer sensor types making it easier to get higher sensor ratings) and as such is highly subject to GM interpretation.

Yeah it seemed pretty half-assed in the book, which is why I decided to ask about it. But man, doesn't a KITT in the Shadowrun Universe kick ass?

a drone can fairly easily get a dicepool that most humans would envy. bear in mind a human's unassisted dicepool for a task they are professionally trained in is likely to be 6 dice (for a freshly trained, fairly average person) to about 8 or 9 dice (for someone who is experienced and reasonably above average in the related attribute).

a drone can fairly easily have sensor 3, and clearsight autosoft 4, giving them a dice pool competitive with someone who looks at things for a living. furthermore, the fact that said drone likely has way more senses than the average human is likely to make them much more versatile than even a skilled human in the field of perception.

if we put the drone up against a comparable human when the drone's pilot rating is used instead of their sensor rating, drones can easily get into special forces skill levels when it comes to many tasks... take a look at the tir ghosts or red samurai npcs in the core book, and you'll see a pilot rating 6 drone won't be far behind them.

Alright well thanks for the information. I really do appreciate it.

large post relating to this
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...rating&st=0

Synner
(Larme @ Apr 22 2008, 01:41 PM)
Nooooooo! I mean, it's an ok solution. Except that if you start giving a "number of upgrades" rating to cameras and such, instead of capacity, you'll be shattering the streamlineyness of what is so far a streamlined system. So far, everything piece of upgradeable gear has been handled through capacity, except for the modification rules which go through their own system of "slots." I think it would be better to give different ratings for cameras and such, but then give their upgrades a capacity rating so that it stays in step with everything else.

Let me clarify: The idea is as simple as saying that on cameras and audio mikes Rating equals Capacity with each enhancement taking up a 1 Capacity slot.

Also, how are you going to deal with the things that are rating 1-3 or rating 1-4? It seems like there's a good reason to limit ultrawideband to 4, so it can't see through ridiculous amounts of stuff. But if you have an ultrawideband on your car, does that mean it limits your sensor package rating to 4?

For now, Vehicle sensor suits will be handled as described in Arsenal:
a) when using the entire suite for standard Sensors Test (such as those in vehicle combat) the lowest common Rating is used; this assumes that no single sensor can provide enough of a targeting profile/solution or tactical advantage to be used on its own). Errata will likely add a minimum number of sensors that a Vehicle's sensor suite requires to provide effective tactical data and firing solutions.
b) alternately, each sensor may be used separately for the specific function it was designed for (for instance a camera may be used to record a scene, a audio mike may be used to overhear a conversation, radar may be used to scan a building, etc) to provide detailed if limited sensory feedback at its full Rating.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...1206&st=150
(Ryu @ Mar 24 2008, 12:16 AM)
Sensor signal is about range. Medium drones can have radar rating 6 installed, with only audio and video on top of that. Should be overall rating 6. Where is the maximum level 4 sensors rule?

The rule as of Arsenal is that when making general Sensor Tests (such as when Targeting) you use the Vehicle's Sensor Rating.

Though it is not explicit, and will probably warrant a FAQ, this assumes that the Rating of all individual sensors (in the Vehicle's default Sensor Package) is equal to the Vehicle's Sensor Rating. "If a character improves the ratings of all of the individual components in a sensor package, the overall Sensor rating of the vehicle should also be improved accordingly" (p.105, Arsenal). Characters engaging in any "normal" use of Sensors, including in Combat, are assumed to be using the combined feed from the entire sensor package.

Per the rule on p.105, the option is left to the gamemaster to allow in specific circumstances the use of an individual sensor rather than the complete package/suite. This option is not intended for Combat since anyone of those single sensors would be hardpressed to provide a complete targeting resolution; but rather it is aimed at allowing the pilot/rigger the use of cameras, microphones, ultrawideband radar or even radar for the specific functions they are designed for (something which might be useful if that particular sensor is higher rated than the remaining ones, or if you simply want to film or record a conversation with the vehicle mounted cam or mike).

I understand this will require further clarification, particularly as regards combat, but that is the ruling as of Arsenal. And yes, there is an inconsistency in that you can strip your array down to a Rating 6 Radar and say that your Vehicle Sensor (the only one) is now Rating 6. This was noted, unfortunately too late to modify in the first printing but will likely feature in the first errata. Though I can't confirm at the moment the ammendment will like require that a Vehicle/Drone Sensor package include at least 1 Camera, 1 Laser Range Finder, 1 Motion Sensor, and Radar.

(hermit @ Mar 24 2008, 10:10 AM)
So is or isn't sensor rating capped at 4 now?

As I've mentioned above it need not be, because as written there's a loophole in the Arsenal rules. That said the errata will probably end up putting a cap at 6 for civilian vehicular systems (assuming the right mix of sensors). It shouldn't affect the example either way since whatever works for the TM works for the rigger.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=sensor++rating
You raise the Sensor rating by upgrading all the individual components of the Sensor Package to the next highest Rating (all components are assumed to come at the listed Vehicle Sensor Rating). Yet another one for the FAQ.

The rule as of Arsenal is that when making general Sensor Tests (such as when Targeting) you use the Vehicle's Sensor Rating.

Though it is not explicit, and will warrant a FAQ, this assumes that the Rating of all individual sensors (in the Vehicle's default Sensor Package) is equal to the Vehicle's Sensor Rating. "If a character improves the ratings of all of the individual components in a sensor package, the overall Sensor rating of the vehicle should also be improved accordingly" (p.105, Arsenal) - yes, this means your Vehicle's default Sensor Rating might be equal to the lowest Rating among your modified sensors. Characters engaging in any "normal" use of Sensors, including in Combat, are assumed to be using the combined feed from the entire sensor package/array to provide location, range, tracking, motion compensation, and targeting solutions.

Per the rule on p.105, the option is left to the gamemaster to allow in specific circumstances the use of an individual sensor rather than the complete package/suite. This option is not intended for Combat since anyone of those single sensors would be hardpressed to provide a complete targeting resolution; but rather it is aimed at allowing the pilot/rigger the use of cameras, microphones, ultrawideband radar or even radar for the specific functions they are designed for (something which might be useful if that particular sensor is higher rated than the remaining ones, or if you simply want to film or record a conversation with the vehicle mounted cam or mike).

I understand this will require further clarification, particularly as regards Combat, but that is the ruling as of Arsenal. And yes, there is an inconsistency in that you can strip your array down to a Rating 6 Radar and say that your Vehicle Sensor (the only one) is now Rating 6. This was noted, unfortunately too late to modify in the first printing, but will likely feature in the first errata. Though I can't confirm at the moment the ammendment will like require that a Vehicle/Drone Sensor package include at least 1 Camera, 1 Laser Range Finder, 1 Motion Sensor, and Radar.


WMS