Hello, I am new to gming Shadowrun 4th edition. There is something that I have always wondered about. I am hoping the someone with more experience can explain it to me. What is the difference between a shadowrunner and a mercenary? Don't they both do things that are good or bad (depending on your perspective) for money? What distinguishes one from the other? Thank you.

Well, technically a shadowrunner is a specialized type of mercenary.

In the end, it comes down to deniability.

When someone goes out to hire a mercenary or a company of mercenaries, they don't go out of their way to hide the fact most of the time. How many times have you heard about Blackwater in the news over the past year?

When a shadowrunner or a team of shadowrunners is hired, silence is the rule of thumb. Difficult-to-trace methods of hiring and payment are used, and often times, the party doing the hiring goes to great lengths to hide their organizational affiliation from the very runners that are being hired.

also, i would think Mercenaries would be more what you'd look for if dealing with large-scale open warfare.

My view has always been this (fits with the SR2 book Fields of Fire):
A mercenary is primarily or completely a soldier for hire. His main line of work - combat and guard duties - isn't (usually) illegal.
A shadowrunner on the other hand is a criminal for hire. His main line of work - breaking-and-entering, theft, sabotage, abduction, espionage, maybe even murder - is definitely illegal.

Depending on the applicable laws in his home country a mercenary can be a SINner and pursue his job openly - what's wrong about a professional freelance soldier working for respectable employers?
(A mercenary can moonlight as a runner, though.)

Combat Inc does operations with Ares co-branding in a perfectly legal and above board fashion.

Shadowrunners... don't really do any of that.

Basically.

The spelling?

Seriously, I can't really see a difference other than semantics.

Fictional material shows mercs in a rather black and white way.

From stories that involve Mercs, the main difference seems to be criminality and some sort of code-of-conduct and being a professional soldier...
...Professional mercs seem to work to guidelines about behaviour.

One of the original archetypes for the Cyberpunk genre is the Street Samurai, generally considered to be a Ronin [masterless Samurai] and often a code-of-conduct merc working on his own.

Mercs can be hired for most occasions [bodyguarding, small scale warfare, largescale warfare, surgical strike, etc], but seem to be used mainly for situations where you want a trained, disciplined, competent professional.

The term Shadowrunner covers a lot of types of people...
...And some of those are mercs - but since Shadowruns can be quasi/semi-legal, some of those 'Runs can involve mercs on a shadowrun.


Wonderfully overlapping !!

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the input.

As a shadowrunner you shoot people in the face for money, and as a merc the big difference is you shoot people in the face for money... although when you shoot someone in the face for money you don't get thrown in jail for doing it.

Shadowrunners are pretty much black ops type of people. Your skills and knowledges are top notch, and you generally can do more then shoot someone in the face. Shadowrunners are basically special operatives who operate in settings that are highly dangerous and are given much less legal protection then a merc ever is. Although this can mean that you can make thousands of every week, or day, or whatever you GM decides. For our group we have bagged about 2 mill per person (most of it in ware) in a month and a half.... of course we have been gaming for quite a long time (our GM is afraid of giving the rigger, demo expert, or mage any downtime as it would make them pretty insane.)

Some mercs might not be all that different from Shadowrunners, but the difference is the job security. As a merc you get some, as a shadowrunner you are like James Bond. You might get all the hawt ladies and a larger budget, but if your caught no one will come running to aid you.

While the terms are interchangable, mercenaries have one major thing going for them over shadowrunners: professionalism. As a Johnson, you expect professional soldiers to behave a certain way, but shadowrunners are a mixed bag.

I'd argue that it's the other way round.

Mercenaries tend to be hired for large scale operations. They're a "bulk purchase" kind of deal, since most come by the company. Look into real world Mercenary groups like Executive Operations. Shadowrunners are small elite teams for specialised work. Precise and effective, but not so great for capturing small nations.

The only difference between a professional mercenary and a shadowrunner is that the former is hired primarily for military-style operations. Both can work deniable or illegal jobs. All it depends on is who's paying the bill. Shadowrunners are all mercenaries in the broader sense of the word.

A group of Shadowrunners tend to be a group of people, professional and non-professional, that may not have trained extensively together and is usually hired for a cheap amount; pay is also based on the reputation of the Shadowrunners. One way to think of Shadowrunners is like a group of business men today. Some of them will be well trained (and continue to education themselves), some will have above average training (and continue to educate themselves), and then some will barely meet the requirements (and most likely will not continue to educate themselves unless necessary).

A group of Mercenaries are people who have prior military experience and train extensively with one another to know the others weakness and strengths. Mercenaries also have more skills then a group of Shadowrunner for the Merc will have combat skills and skills specific to his job/training and skills to back-up another team member. When you hire a mercenary team to you reserve the team as a whole and you will pay well for reserving the team, pay is also based on reputation but will always be more then a Shadowrunners pay.

Summary: Both groups earn their income and if they are not working for someone then neither group is being paid. Mercenaries train and work as a team and are considered professionals; when you hire a Mercenary you hire the team. Shadowrunners are pulled together to handle a specific job and then break up and while they maybe really good at what they do they are not considered professionals; when you hire Shadowrunners you are not guaranteed to always have the same people on a team.

Corporate Mercenaries are a different story, but basically they fall in between these two groups. Average to above average skills for a Shadowrunner team, but always below average skills of a Mercenary team.

I hope this helps you.

If you are a 400 bp character you are better then a merc. Mercs might be combat trained with some other specialties, but a 400 bp character has much more then a merc could hope for. Now a 300-350 char could be merc'ish. 400 bp characters always stood out to me as specialists.

A friend told me that Field of Fire supposedly had a dissection of the issue of shadowrunner versus mercenary.

Would this friend be the late, great Matador?

While Fields of Fire is a wonderful book, and it does indeed have a great discussion of the difference between a Shadowrunner and a Mercenary, it is a rather biased view from a mercenary's perspective. Honestly, you could probably find/replace every reference to "Mercenary" with "Street Samurai" (in that section at least, not the whole bit about typical missions and the like) and have a nice diatribe from a Sammy on why they're more honorable than most Shadowrunners.

To actually contribute something to the discussion (not much, but at least it's something) I'd say that in my opinion the difference is, as MYST1C said earlier, that a mercenary is a soldier you hire through legal, quasi-legal, or illegal methods, while a Shadowrunner is a criminal you hire through quasi-legal or illegal methods (I suppose some could be hired through legal methods, but they woul dbe the vast minority). Mercenaries are expected to do military work, Shadowrunners are expected to do a wide variety of jobs, some of which could be considered military work.

As I've been writing this I realized that it sort of sounds like Mercenaries could even be considered a subset of Shadowrunners, which I don't know that I agree with, so I'll have to come up with another differentiation. Let's go with--uh--mercenaries use assault rifles, Shadowrunners use submachine guns... yeah... that'll work (yes, that's a joke). How about, they're different beasts with overlapping jobs. Sure.

depends on what end of the violence spectrum your team is operating...

Inasmuch as there can be a "correct" answer to a semantic question, this response is correct, at least from SR1 through SR3. I could not reasonably answer the question for SR4.

My take on that question: Shadowrunners are mercenaries who do criminal jobs as well as legal ones. If you're not doing any illegal work, you're not a shadowrunner.

Versatility.

Mercenaries shoot things. Or guard things. Or a little of both.

And that's it.

Shadowrunners do whatever the frag you need. Maybe that's shooting, or maybe it's sneaking into an R&D lab to drop a stink bomb in your buddy's locker. (Better not tell 'em what they're delivering though, 'runners don't always have a sense of humor about these things.)

Bottom line is that with a merc you get a soldier, with a 'runner you get a professional scapegoat for whatever dirty deeds you want done. Don't let the street sam fool you, not everything is accomplished by shooting.

Shadowrunners and Mercenaries are essentially the same thing, the differences are cosmetic:

Shadowrunners are slick, cool, and urban.

Mercenaries are basically soldiers.

Mercenaries may have more conventional missions as well (assault this, blow that up, etc. etc.)

Pretty much all shadowrunners are mercenaries, but not all mercenaries are shadowrunners.

The difference: Rainbow
Sprinkles

I personally think the distinction between "soldier for hire" and "criminal for hire" is the best way to describe it, but of course, it's no strict separation: There are surely mercenaries, that do criminal jobs and runners will sometimes perhaps also work in classical "mercenary" jobs.



To be honest, I don't think that 300 points are enough to build a soldier, sorry. Even 350 points may be not enough. A mercenary will have many skills on 1-2, 2-3 groups at 2-4, not to mention physical attributes at 4 (at least slighty better than "normal" people). Many soldiers will also use cheap cyberware to improve their skills... Imho, 400 BP makes a good starting soldier. Not a hard veteran, but someone who has worked in this buiz for a year or two.

Mercs do it in the Jungle.

Shadowrunners do it in Alleys.

When I left the US Army in 1989 after four years as a grunt, I was fully qualified to be a mercenary. I was no where near what I think of as a shadowrunner.

The difference is bredth of skill and contacts. I was really good at a few things, mostly shooting straight and travelling long distances un-observed in a variety of terrains and climates. But, my B&E skills, network of useful contacts and the kind of social bullshitting people skills that most good runners have were completely lacking.

PS, you can build a respectable grunt with 300 points. Remember a skill level of 3 is considered professional level.

400bp makes a "good starting soldier?" Are you nuts? If 3 is typical stats for a human then the starting out point cost for a human is 160. Raise four attributes by 1 each and suddenly you have a human with threes all across the board and 4 stats at level 4. Take 100 bp and sink it into skills and you have what looks to be a fairly standard merc. Take 40 bp in firearms group, 40 in athletics, and 12-16 in dodge and the rest for some standard gear? Thats 300 now 350 will let you work with more skills and more things for you to do.

Now I am of the belief that mercs come in all shapes and sizes. Some are extremely elite and have undergone special military training, while many others have served in the military, and then just get hired out as a merc for oodles more money then they would get if they were still in the army. Yes there will probably be 400 bp mercs, but they should stand out among other mercs and be considered badasses in their circle. Probably there will be better, but hell I would think there might be a handful of mercs that are above a 400bps

Great, than you have a soldier who's "just" missing... Melee training, Outdoor training, any social skills, Sneaking, First Aid, Throwing a grenade, etc. And of course, your Soldier is nacked, doesn't have a car, lifestyle, etc. He also lost his memory, because he doesn't know anyone. With 350 we're starting to get near a well-rounded character (with skills around 1-3)... Personally, I would expect putting a minimum of 110 points into skills (and getting many 1s there). 10 more points into contacts (everyone know at least 5 people at least a little bit - a soldier normaly has got drunk with a lot more).

So, 300 points are imho not enough to model a competent soldier. Of course, someone who can shoot straight, yes, but that's not a real soldier, imho. With around 330 points you'll get someone pretty balanced. 350 would be better, as I didn't even take one skill at 4 in my calculation, Athletics only 2, etc.

400 makes a good soldier (starting was meant as in "Starting Character", not "starting to be soldier), but surely nothing elite. If you add good cyberware (or Adept) and a little better skills to this soldier, he'll be 400BP and far from being "elite". The only difference between my Ganger and the 330 points soldier above was, that he was an orc adept (+65 points for orc and magic, iirc). Imho, many people will have many skills on 1, especially trained soldiers or people living on the streets.

Ok, there will probably mercs with only 300 points, but than that will be the ones not getting promoted quickly

Great, than you have a soldier who's "just" missing... Melee training, Outdoor training, any social skills, Sneaking, First Aid, Throwing a grenade, etc. And of course, your Soldier is nacked, doesn't have a car, lifestyle, etc. He also lost his memory, because he doesn't know anyone. With 350 we're starting to get near a well-rounded character (with skills around 1-3)... Personally, I would expect putting a minimum of 110-120 points into skills (and getting many 1s there). 10 more points into contacts (everyone know at least 5 people at least a little bit - a soldier normaly has got drunk with a lot more). 10 more points into equipment and bingo, we're there.

So, 300 points are imho not enough to model a competent soldier. Of course, someone who can shoot straight, yes, but that's not a real soldier, imho. With around 330 points you'll get someone pretty balanced. 350 would be better, as I didn't even take one skill at 4 in my calculation, Athletics only 2, etc.

400 makes a good soldier (starting was meant as in "Starting Character", not "starting to be soldier), but surely nothing elite. If you add good cyberware (or Adept) and a little better skills to this soldier, he'll be 400BP and far from being "elite".

Ok, there will probably mercs with only 300 points, but than that will be the ones not getting promoted quickly

10 - Assault Rifles/M16 2/4
6 - Heavy weapons/Grenade launcher 1/3
6 - Pilot Vehicle/wheeled 1/3
20 - Athletics Group 2
8 - Unarmed Combat 2
6 - First Aid/Combat Wounds 1/3
8 - Navigation 2
8 - Survival 2
10 - Etiquette / Military 2/4
6 - Leadership/Tactics 1/3
4 - Instruction 1
6 - Demolitions/Plastique 1/3
2 - Percetption
--
100

I love to see how underpowered we really would be compared to a street sam.

Sounds much better than two groups at 40 *g* Personally, I would add two or three more skills at 1 or 1+2, but basically, that's a good minimal version. Imho, 330 points is still a better guess, including contacts and equipment.