OK, so there is a general principal that penalties do not apply to 'resistance' tests.

Explicitly, wound modifiers do not apply to Damage Resistance Tests and Drain Resistance Tests. The later also explicitly ignore sustaining penalties.

However I cannot find any specific text outlining the principle and stating that neither Wound modifiers nor Sustaining penalties apply to tests that are described as 'resistance' tests.

For example,the Opposed Spellcasting test for Direct Combat Spells is described as 'resisted' by the defender. However, without explicit text saying that 'resistance' tests are not subject to wound/sustaining penalties, it remains subject to both as far as I can tell.

Anybody help with specific rules text debunking that position?

Watch out;

I am at work and haven't the book at hand (obviously) but wounds penalties (and others) do not apply to drain and damage resistance tests; IIRC they do apply to other type of tests like your example (opposed rolls to determine a spell's effect)

Cheers,

Max

I rather thought the opposite was the case in SR4. What I need is specific rules one way or the other.

As MaxHunter said, this only applies with Wound Modifiers and Damage (or Drain) Resistance tests. It is not a general rule for all resistance tests.

So, if your on a -3 due to wounds (and/or sustaining) and have a Willpower of 3 you don't get to resist a Stunbolt at all unless you spend Edge?

p.154 BBB

So I would say no it does not apply.

Thanks, that covers wound mods, anyone got a similar quote for sustaining mods?

p.174 BBB

So I would have to say that is pretty straightforward. You are distracted and therefore vulnerable.

Even to Damage Resistance tests according to that text although not drain tests.

Anybody else know of any text that says different or clarifies the situation?

We do not apply any modifier to pure "soaking" tests.

as I said earlier on...

Assuming you're replying to Fuchs, he's helpfully talking about houserules rather than pointing at text in the rulebooks that supports them.

Since the spell resistance test is also a damage resistance test, I'd say they are included.

Where do you get that from?

edit:

RAW damage resistance tests are subject to sustaining penalties, unless you know of rules text I haven't found yet.

As far as I am concerned, there are no penalties to Damage Resistance tests. Although I can't find a quote at the moment to back that up, I believe that to be the canon stance on the matter as well.

I just consider a test against a DV value a damage resistance test. Now, a combat spell resistance test is not exactly the same as a ranged damage resistance test, but conceptually, I judge it the same - in the end, you take a DV of Force+net hits.

It also slows down the "death spiral" effect a bit if damage resistance checks are not penalised, and it might balance direct and indirect combat spells a bit.

I agree completely, that's the way I want it to be and the way I would run it.

But I want to see explicit rules saying it's that way and right now I can't find them and nobody here seems to be able to point me to them.

I had a brainwave and checked out Fading which is a Damage Resistance test, RAW, unlike Drain, but doesn't say that Threading penalties don't apply to it. It implies that in the example but it doesn't explicitly say so.

RAW, both Threading and Spell Sustaining penalties apply to Damage Resistance tests.

What makes you think that resisting Drain is not a Damage Resistance test?

Drain is described on BBB p167, p170, p174, p175, p179 and p180.

In almost all instances the resistance test is described as a 'Drain Resistance Test.' When it is not, the 'type' of the test is not mentioned at all.

On BBB p174 it is noted that 'wound modifiers or sustained spells have no effect on the character's dice pool for Drain Resistance Tests.'

Pointing out wound modifiers do not apply is redundant if Drain Resistance Tests are a form of Damage Resistance test.

Note that on the same page Sustaining modifiers are specified as applying to 'all other tests.' This would include Damage Resistance Tests unless an explicit exception appears in the description of Damage Resistance Tests.

Contrasting this with BBB p237 where Fading is resisted with 'a Damage Resistance Test using Willpower + Resonance.'

As such there is no specific mention of wound penalties versus Fading because that would be redundant. Wound penalties do not apply to Damage Resistance Tests.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Drain is never described as a Damage Resistance Test.

Drain is explicitly described as ignoring wound penalties.

Unlike Fading which is explicitly a Damage Resistance Test and therefore doesn't bother to mention wound penalties.

I agree that it was probably the intent, or at least makes more sense, that neither Wound Penalties or Sustaining Penalties should apply to being physically injured, Drain or Fading.

However the smart way to do this would have been to describe Damage Resistance Tests along with Simple, Opposed and Extended tests. The exception should have been made in that text to both Wound and Sustaining Penalties and then inherited by each of the sub-types by simply describing them as Damage Resistance Tests when specifying which stats to use.

Less text, less ink, less confusion.

I'm still not sure whether 'resisting' combat spells is subject to wound/sustaining penalties according to the RAW. If that's not the intent then the immunity should apply to all 'Resistance Tests' rather than just Damage Resistance Tests.

[pre-edit] Argghhhh...

Having checked, yet again, on Damage Resistance Tests and Wound Penalties, DRT's are explicitly not subject to Wound Penalties, however, Wound Penalties explicitly do not apply to any 'resistance' test.

So the immunity on BBB p174 in spellcasting Drain is redundant and the quote at the top of this post is moot. Also Wound Penalties don't apply when resisting Direct Combat Spells but I've still no idea whether Sustaining Penalties apply to any 'resistance' test other than 'Drain Resistance Tests.'

Shrug. Drain = Damage. Therefore a Drain Resistance test = a Damage Resistance test.

So...

Drain = Damage =>

Drain Resistance Test = Damage Resistance Test =>

Sustaining Penalties do not apply to Damage Resistance Tests?

Anyone care to make that official?

I have no problem with that. As far as I am concerned, that is canon.