So most teams need a Face, right? The Adept Power Kinesics makes for a bitchin' Face, but I like a character that can do more than one thing. So I made a Mystic Adept.


Elf 30 BP

Attributes 220 BP
Bod - 3
Agility - 3
Reaction - 2
Strength - 2
Charisma - 7
Intuition - 4
Logic - 3
Willpower - 4
Edge - 2
Magic - 5

Qualities +15 BP
First Impression
Mystic Adept - Shamanic Tradition
Mentor Spirit - The Seductress
Mild Addiction: Alcohol
Mild Addiction: Stimulants
Combat Paralysis
Mild Allergy: Gold

Contacts 22 BP
Fixer 4/2
Arms Dealer 2/2
Bartender 3/2
Mafia Soldier 2/2
Talismonger 2/1

Skills 112 BP
Influence Group 4
Automatics 2
Dodge (Ranged) 2 (+2)
Intimidation 2
Perception 3
Spellcasting 5
Counterspelling (Detection) 3 (+2)

Knowledge Skills 6 BP
English N
Japanese 3
Chinese 3
Russian 3
German 3

Corporate Politics 3
Matrix Theory 1
Club Music 2
Magical Theory 2
Modern Art 2
Urban Brawl Statistics 2

Spells 15 BP
Analyze Truth
Stunbolt
Influence
Trid Phantasm
Mass Confusion

Adept Powers
Kinesics x4

Focus 6 BP (Buying plus bonding)
Counterspelling Focus (Combat) 3

That leaves me 4 BP, which turns into 20K left over for gear. I already factored in the 15K it would cost to buy a Force 3 Counterspelling Focus, so all that's left is the picking out of stuff.

I intended this character to be a SUPPORT caster. She is obviously going to be mostly terrible if she's the only caster in the party, but we've got about seven people in our playgroup, so niches are available for filling. I also felt that I could afford to do two different things because of the crazy efficiency of Kinesics. Straight out of the box, she's throwing 19 dice in a Con test. I picked the Shamanic tradition for one reason alone: Drain. Shamans resist with Charisma.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I've made a couple of updates.

Unless 4 points of your magic is going toward adept powers, you can't pick up 4 ranks of kinesics. Power rank is limited by magic, and since your a mystic adept, your magic is effectively divided between adept powers (in the case for this you'd need 4 points of powers to adept powers, in which case you've got a lot of unspent points) or, you can keep it mostly toward magic, and pick up some kinesics, and maybe some improved ability con/etc.

Also keep in mind that your kinesis power probably won't work unless it is a face to face confrontation. That means that sometimes your shadowboy will have to go out into the field. And when bullets go flying your guy is boned. Combat paralysis means he's even more boned.

Drop one point of intuition and one point of willpower and dump a point into reaction and body. Body is important because you'll be adding that meager bit of armor to soak up damage. Trust me, it goes a long way and will mean the difference between you surviving and permanent horizontal retirement.

Unless your elf is into urban brawl and goblin rock I suggest going for something else or dropping them altogether to regain that extra BP.

You drive, don't you? Drop some extra BP into pilot land craft. A man about town doesn't take the bus. Otherwise with only 2 reaction you'll barely be able to survive the drive through the sprawl defaulting to only 1 dice for drive checks.

Again, kinesis won't work when the subject isn't in person. You won't be throwing those extra dice. Also, you won't be throwing your full dice when you speak to someone of a different language. Kinesis will help, but only if you're in person, once again.

Having a high charisma is a good idea. Its best to raise it to raise it high at character creation is you plan on raising it at all. One good thing there at least.

Ditch your bartender contact or soup him up if you want an upscale contact. Have you ever been to an upscale bar before? Do you have any idea of the perks they get? A 3 connection is for a middlin' bar pretending to be upscale and a 4 and up is when you actually get upscale.

Drop the focuses. I suggest pumping that back into willpower, reaction or body.

Get rid of computers and data search. You'll have a matrix specialist for this most likely, or if you don't have one use some BP to get one as a contact.

Put more in dodge after pumping up reaction. Also see about the summoning skillset. You have seven charisma which means you can hold a ton of spirits. Put that to use. If you can find the BP I suggest having at least a two in the skillset if not more. You can summon a bunch of spirits of the same type at once. So if so inclined and you need to beat feet you can superdrop a few spirits at the same time and while they're distracted by those beast spirits you threw at them.

Your character needs a lot of work. I also suggest diversifying past kinesis and into some other skills. You don't need to throw 19 in a con test. And the times when you do throw all of those dice will be limited indeed. Spread that juice out a bit and you'll have a well rounded shadowrunner who will SURVIVE the first session.

The example on page 187 has a Mystic Adept using one point of magic to pick up four ranks of Rapid Healing and putting the rest into Magic.


90% of the time I'll be using the Influence group it'll be face to face. Face/Johnson, Face/Fixer, Face/Night Security Guard, Face/Relocated Employee. Those are times that the Face comes into use.

I'm new to this forum and I don't know how to multiquote here. So the rest of Icephisherman's text is underlined and bolded while mine is plain.

Drop one point of intuition and one point of willpower and dump a point into reaction and body. Body is important because you'll be adding that meager bit of armor to soak up damage. Trust me, it goes a long way and will mean the difference between you surviving and permanent horizontal retirement.
I don't WANT her to get into firefights. She's probably going to be hiding at the back.

Unless your elf is into urban brawl and goblin rock I suggest going for something else or dropping them altogether to regain that extra BP.
I was going for a wide spread of topics to chitchat with contacts about.

You drive, don't you? Drop some extra BP into pilot land craft. A man about town doesn't take the bus. Otherwise with only 2 reaction you'll barely be able to survive the drive through the sprawl defaulting to only 1 dice for drive checks.
I was thinking about some drive, but why do I need to make drive checks? What dangerous driving am I going to be doing?

Again, kinesis won't work when the subject isn't in person. You won't be throwing those extra dice. Also, you won't be throwing your full dice when you speak to someone of a different language. Kinesis will help, but only if you're in person, once again.
WTF? This character speaks six languages.

Having a high charisma is a good idea. Its best to raise it to raise it high at character creation is you plan on raising it at all. One good thing there at least.
Thanks. I thought it was probably a good idea to have a high stat in the thing I want to do best.

Ditch your bartender contact or soup him up if you want an upscale contact. Have you ever been to an upscale bar before? Do you have any idea of the perks they get? A 3 connection is for a middlin' bar pretending to be upscale and a 4 and up is when you actually get upscale.
There I agree. I'll drop the Computers, Data Search, and Seattle History skills to make him a 4/2 bartender.

Drop the focuses. I suggest pumping that back into willpower, reaction or body.
I want to be the Counterspelling specialist for the team. That way, the primary caster will only have to spend 4 BP on Spellcasting instead of 10 BP for the Sorcery group.

Get rid of computers and data search. You'll have a matrix specialist for this most likely, or if you don't have one use some BP to get one as a contact.
See above.

Put more in dodge after pumping up reaction.
I don't want to be anywhere near guns.

Also see about the summoning skillset. You have seven charisma which means you can hold a ton of spirits. Put that to use. If you can find the BP I suggest having at least a two in the skillset if not more. You can summon a bunch of spirits of the same type at once. So if so inclined and you need to beat feet you can superdrop a few spirits at the same time and while they're distracted by those beast spirits you threw at them.
You can only have one unbound spirit at a time. If I'm going to beat feet, I don't have time to spend nine hours binding three Force 3 spirits.

Your character needs a lot of work. I also suggest diversifying past kinesis and into some other skills. You don't need to throw 19 in a con test. And the times when you do throw all of those dice will be limited indeed. Spread that juice out a bit and you'll have a well rounded shadowrunner who will SURVIVE the first session.
You must have the movie Commando in mind when you look at this character. I don't want her to have to shoot anything. If she does need to shoot anything, I'd prefer her to sit in the back and take Wide Burst shots at the bad guys or knock down one guy/round with Stunbolt. She's not a one-person wrecking crew, she's one member of a TEAM. She fills her niche and helps with another. The team doesn't need somebody else with the Firearms group, Lockpicking, Gymnastics and Pilot Ground Craft.

I'm 99% sure that that example is erranous, becouse you should by the the rules be limited to nuber of powerpoints in any single power level



He means that when dealing with someone in foreing language you skill in that language limits you social skills.

SR4 FAQ:
hough mystic adepts must split their Magic between Magic-based skills and adept powers, it says that for all other purposes, including the limits of adept powers, the mystic adept uses his full Magic attribute. Does this mean that a mystic adept with Magic 6 who has allocated 2 points to Magic skills and 4 points to adept powers can cast Force 6 spells without flinching?

The Magic points allocated towards Magic-based skills counts for all aspects of those skills. This includes: Magic-linked skill tests (Summoning, Spellcasting, Enchanting, etc.), overcasting, and maximum spell Force, for example.

For power points and Magic when used by adept powers, only the points allocated towards adept powers apply. This includes Attribute Boost Tests and the like.

For all other purposes -- i.e., non-Magic-linked skills -- the mystic adept's full Magic attribute is used: pressing through astral barriers, initiation grade limit, Masking metamagic, and so on.

So in the example above, the maximum Force he can cast at is 4, and anything over Force 2 is Physical Drain.

The FAQ seems to contradict the example in the book, so I do believe my interpretation is correct.

I looked under the Adept section and the Mystic Adept section, and the only thing I could find is this:

"For all other purposes, including the determination of the maximum level for adept powers, the character's full Magic attribute is used."

To me, that means that the max Adept Power level is equal to your Magic level.


Oh. Yeah, I knew that.

Hostile much?? You asked for thoughts, and then when they are provided, you get antagonistic?? How's that going for ya?

As for any critiques, the previous posters did not suggest your combat capabilities increase, only that you increase your survivability. You have combat paralysis, well, that means you suck if you get ambushed...and with a Reaction and Body that poor, you'll be dead. Plus, witha body that low, you are restricted to wearing no more than 4 points of armor before restricting your already meager combat skills. An addition to Body allows you to wear a Vest/Long Coat or Urban Explorer Jumpsuit. A BIG bonus since you want as much damage to be stun rather than physical. If you prefer to play waifish, an increased reaction/dodge allows you to avoid getting hit. This means not dead. Even if you don't intend to be trading shots with a sec team, as the face you are most likely going to right smack in the middle of the whole shebang when the lead starts flying. And you can't really rely on luck, cause your Edge is low too.

As for your build, I'm not sure on your skills. I agree with dropping at least one focus. Throw a point into Counterspelling with a Specialization. I'd go so far as to drop a level in Spellcasting a pick up a 6 in Counterspelling (still leaves on average ~3 successes). Computer and Data Search are unneccessary for you, as you noticed. But 6 points in a contact (assuming you keep the lower Bartender contact as well) does not = 8 so you still have 2 left. Me, I'd pick up a specialty in Dodge (probably Ranged, but I really like Melee because it's a passive defense).

Now Spells. Trid Phantasm and Stunbolt, well yeah. Physical Barrier is way too draining, drop it. Pick up Influence, much better for your character concept to my mind. Silence? I'm not sure why as you don't have Infiltration to get by them unseen. Why not Improved Invisibility? Analyze Truth I can understand, but I'd prefer another Illusion Spell or Heal. Detection Spell Formula is the cheapest and most legal category. Heck, buy the spell formula at character generation and buy it with karma. I'd go with an offensive Illusion spell like Agony or even Confusion, but that may just be me.

Those are my thoughts. Flame On

EDIT: On the language topic, it's a loss of 1 die. I mean, what's the big loss?

I would go the other route to what people have said above re: computer and data search. Keep them. I've called for data search rolls by Face characters as the chat someone up and that someone suddenly mentions something the Face doesn't know about. Fire off an AR data search and stall for a few seconds and boom! suddenly your an "expert." Computer is probably the weaker of the two for this concept, but Data Search can be invaluable.

If you want to, get an Agent with your 20k left over and give it Browse and Adaptability Autosoft and have it scripted to run data searches for you so that you don't have to. Mostly a fluff sort of addition to a concept, but if I were the GM I'd try to make it valuable now and again since it's a cool concept.

I was tempted to agree Dash, because I like Data Search a lot, especially for Face characters, but as an awakened face, I ultimately fealt it strung her out over too many things without much return (2 dice). Plus, a few grand in an agent and browse program and she can have it do it better then get back to her.

Hrm, I totally missed that then, Feel free to ignore me.

Don't worry, we already have

But seriously, when my now GM first started pulling crap with Mystic Ads, I missed this part too. Luckily, he missed the FAQ regarding casting spells, so I can slap him with it.

And what happens when they aren't interested in your talk, no matter how many dice you have? Or if they aren't open to any talks? If you're in the middle of talking, and then something escalates the situation to violence, you won't make it to hide in the back before you are dead.


Shadowing people, if its icy/snowy/etc out, if you're driving the team around and someone wants you all dead to avoid the hail of gunfire... etc.



Then you shouldn't be a shadowrunner. If you want to live, you should think about investing in dodge.


You can have up to CHA spirits bound and on standby. Spend downtime summoning/binding the spirits, and then you'll be able to call in up to 7 +1(for a summoned but not bound) spirit in as the calvary if you need to.

So, what this is saying is that you should never, ever play a mystic adept because a full magician with cyber and bio is just superior in almost every possible way. K. Got it. I guess I need to use my GM's Handwavium power on this one, because this answer is flat out retarded.

-paws

So, you'd rather that mystic adepts get to be like a full magician, AND a full adept for less than the cost of being a magician? Yeah, ok, sure.

Plus it has always been that way. Thus the trade off. You have to really think about a Mystic Adept.

The way its presented in the BBB:
* You divide your Magic between power and a magical skills.
* Don't ever get astral projection and you have to buy astral perception if you want it.
* You can cast and summon with force up to you full magic
* You DP for casting and summoning is limited to (magical skills ability) + (relevant skill).
* You can buy levels in power up to your full magic attribute.

Mystic Adepts already risk spreading themselves thin to the point of uselessness trying to be an adept and a magician. I don't see the need to further penalize them. And therefore, I will not. Period.

-paws

1. Yes
2. Correct
3. Wrong, just as with 4, all magic linked skills use only the magician part of the magic attribute. I.E. you put 2 points toward magician, so you can summon force 2 spirits with S drain, and up to a max of force 4 spirits with P drain. Much the same as you can only cast force 2 spells for S drain, and up to a max of force 4 spells for P drain.
4. Wait, where are you getting this from? It is not limited to points toward magician + skill. You can still spec the skill, have mentor spirit bonuses, use foci, and all that. If you only meant that the "magic" part of the skill roll (such as magic + spellcasting) is not the full magic attribute, but only how much the adept has put toward magician, then you are correct.
5. Yes

As I don't have my BBB handy here at work, I can't quote the passage verbatim. I admit I was working with my buddy's 3rd printing when I was learning the 4e system, so maybe I have something muddled. My copy is the 5th printing, so it should be up to date with all the current errata, correct?

I guess I'll know for sure when I get a chance to look at it tonight. At which point, I'll either clarify my position or retract my previous statement.

-paws

The only time I really even got sarcastic was when I got "Oh! You gave your cleric a high Wisdom! Good boy!" It just felt like a pat on the head.


Eff. I didn't see that rule. That changes things.


Dropping one focus and specializing in it instead nets me one fewer dice and adds 4 BP. Dodge specialization also added.


Spells adjusted.


Um. You smell like pee?

Sorry for the double post. I updated the original character, so some of the previous comments aren't gonna make sense.


The character has a decent Perception and I'm a pretty smoove guy myself. If things escalate to the point of violence while I'm in the middle of trying to convince, or con, or negotiate our way into something, then I'm a shitty Face and probably deserve to get shot.


Why is the Face the primary driver in your scenario?


Done. Also some Bod.


Actually, I REALLY love the thought of having this enormous cloud of Force 2 Beast Spirits waiting around to wreck shop at my command, but I just don't have the BP to do it at creation. If I'm gonna be a summoning stud I want to do it right, and that means buying all three skills.

Also, I never brought this up, but I feel it merits some attention:

What are you talking about? How are you summoning "a bunch of spirits at once"?

Well, it's coming along. You did sink some valuable points into your knowledge skills, which if your GM uses them heavily makes sense. One of the last little tweaks you may want to consider is lowering all your language skills by 1 to twos then specializing each in Spoken. This would allow you to sling your full DP for social skills and net you 2 BP. I'd then take those 2 BP and specialize in Perception (probably visual) and move one point from Perception into Counterspelling, but I like Counterspelling, so I am definately biased. The character is more survivable and includes one of the most useful spells in the game for when you just can't convince them to go your way any other way. I'm also unsure of the background, but I'm not a huge fan of the Mob Soldier and Arms Dealer contacts. Of course, that is totally a background thing and I am bringing some of my own views into that assessment.

Oh, and dropping one counterspelling focus gets you 6 BP, which is the same cost to increase counterspelling a level and specialize in whatever class of spell that focus granted it's dice to. So it nets you one more die for all spells and the same DP for that particular spell category...but your revision seems to indicate you noticed this. I am just correcting for those who may not have.

And you're never going to botch a roll? What about being ambushed as you head into what you think is a meet?

You're a shadowrunner, you own a car. At some point you will be driving, and someone will also want you dead. When you don't want to die while driving your car, a basic pilot ground (wheeled) 1 skill is you friend.

Side note: No emotion software? Thats some hefty bonus you're missing out on.

Well, I read the BBB entry last night. Then re-read it a couple times more. Re-read the FAQ entry. Dug up my SR2 and SR3 books that detail mystic adepts (AKA physical magicians), read those.

And... I still don't agree with the FAQ.

My reading of the BBB entry is that the magic points dedicated to mana-abilities are the basis for your dice pools. Your magic attribute is used for everything else, including determining the force at which you can cast and summon.

I don't believe the FAQ takes into account the significant changes to the magic system in SR4, especially with regards to maximum hits and overcasting.

In prior editions, they were explicit about the magic points dedicated to mana-based abilities. In fact, it was a separate power, purchasable only by mystic adepts.

If the intent for mystic adepts was to perform like they did in prior editions, then they should have stayed with the prior model and made magical skills an adept power that can only be purchased by mystic adepts. I really don't understand why this model was moved away from, because it was extremely clear before.

So, in my game at least, the FAQ on this issue will be ignored.

I'm not making this ruling off the cuff, without testing it or considering its impact, by the way. I have a "social engineer" adept in my home game. He's an aspected mystic who focuses on manipulation spells, social skills, and disguise. I've had no issue with his performance to date. He doesn't overshadow the other characters, manages to pull his own weight, and so on.

-paws
PS Sorry for the de-rail, OP. Good luck with your character.

You really don't want banishing. It is only useful for spiritcollectors, e.g. someone who wants to bind spirits of other traditions. And for that, you really lack the magic (and the points). Otherwise you are better off just fighting the spirit in question, less risk and usually less drain.

I would advise you to at least get summoning, even a low force spirit can be a great edge in dire situations. Might want to free up points from knowledge skills - replace them with know- or datasofts if really needed in game.

For my games, combat paralysis is a big no-go, as it would certainly get you killed. And out of experience: especially the Face tends to be the one getting ambushed most. But if it works for your group, we should not dwell on it any longer.

That is SO cheap. I love it. Who needs pen pals, anyway?


Wait. What? Each point of Knowledge Skill is 2 BP and specialization costs 2 as well. OTOH, dropping from 3 to 1 in a language and specializing in spoken gives me the same effective DP but brings me 2 BP each time I do it. Is that what you meant?


Yeah, the contacts were pretty preliminary and meant more to give me a broad base. One of our beaters will likely have a better level of contact with an arms dealer, so I'll likely check with the group before I finalize those contacts.


If it can't be spotted with a drone, sensed astrally, sniffed out in VR, or spotted with Combat Sense then we're likely pretty dead anyway. But I get your point. I got more Dodge and Bod.


I'm not saying I'll never get it. I just don't have the BP to get it at creation.


Crap. I don't even know what that is. I'm assuming it's in a source book.

Yeah, its in arsenal. Pretty fancy stuff, you can also get the lie-detecting software too.

The problem with dropping language skills and specing them, is that if its capped by skill rating, then it'd be the base rating, as specializations are dice pool modifiers, and don't actually increase the rating.

For language skills, you would be better off getting some Rating: 4 linguasofts.

Emotitoys and empathy software are in Arsenal. You can get them up to rating: 6, and they give you a dice bonus to social skill tests. If your GM nerfs them (which I wouldn't blame him for - it is way too overpowered), then don't bother with it, but if he uses it, then you have to get it just to keep up with the power curve. It's one of those things where, instead of going "Yay! I have 6 more dice!", you're going "Damnit, now I have to get this stupid software now, because everyone else is going to be using it!"

Zak is right about summoning. You could replace the automatics skill with summoning, lose the 6 BP on knowledge skills and the counterspelling specialization (only 2 Karma if you get it after play begins), and raise it from 2 to 4. That would let you roll 7 dice to summon, and 10 dice to resist Drain, which would let you summon Force: 3 spirits without too many problems. And force: 3 spirits are extremely useful, not only as fairly decent muscle, but for a multitude of other functions as well.

I learned this the hardway, when the stupid Street Sam in our group was rivaling my face's dice pools because she'd bought the software I overlooked.