I’ve never been very fond of the RAW Technomancer rules in SR4. The idea of the Technomancer on the other hand is just wonderful, but hardly playable – especially with the Unwired rules that include even more things that a TM need.

In a character building perspective they are like mages but still not as they more than regular mages NEED all the spells in the book for hacking.

And even if one built a “specialist� focused on say signal interception and simply listening to others they were always left in the dust by the Hacker who could do ALL of it from cratch, and better.

Just comparing the two in BP makes one wonder what they were thinking.

A maxed commlink and software for a hacker is roughly (All rating 6): 27BP or 135000Y

A TM maxed out with Complex Forms and Resonance (Not counting the cost in attributes) would be 205BP. (Yes, i know that per RAW they cannot start with it but this is just for comparison).

Then we have the additional skills for handling sprites…

This doesn’t take into the account of gaining the karma later to get access to a HANDFUL of the echoes, and they are LOTS of them.

SR4: 5 Echoes
Unwired: 19 Echoes! / 7 Advanced Echoes

So I’ve made some changes to even the scales and make a difference between the two and give the TM a chance to spend more of the karma he gains on trying to reach his potential with echoes and not just trying to catch up with the Hacker.

ATTRIBUTES
Cracking Skill Group and Electronics Skill Group is now linked to RESONANCE for Technomancers

Two reasons.
1 – All TM do is through the resonance and the way they handle machinery and code is through their link with the Resonance and is hardly logical to the rest of the world.
2 – It gives hackers an edge since they can take ware that improves logic linked skills.

Logic Cap is removed completely

SKILL CHANGE
Hackers roll Logic+Skill - Net Hits limited by Program Rating
Technomancers roll Resonance+Skill limited by Complex Form Rating

SOFTWARE & COMPLEX FORMS
Software and Complex Forms are the same at chargen, programs bought with money representing the time and effort of the technomancer to learn his craft.

THREADING
Threading by RAW is both too powerful and can sink the TM into unconciousness far too quickly due to a good/bad dice roll and the Resonance X2 rule. These now work more like spells.

Boosting an existing CF
Resonance+Software and Boosting is limited by Complex Form Rating. Fading is Complex Form/2+Net Hits.
Net hits cannot exceed Complex Form Base Rating

Creating a CF from scratch
TM Chooses the desired rating and rolls Resonance+Software – Fading is Desired Rating/2+Net Hits
Net Hits cannot exceed desired complex form rating.

If the Fading is higher than the TM Resonance rating then the damage is physical as per SR4 rules.

ADVANCED COMPLEX FORMS
The Technomancer always have a Simrig from the start
The Technomancer always have a storage memory
Disregard the rules of Smartlink CF*

*Reason for this is that if the TM can get by with just Software then why not the rest of the runners? If they want a Smartlink they have to get the ware that include all the needed hardware.

CYBERWARE
Any matrix initiative enhancing cyberware is incompatible with the virtual persona - A TM is gonna need echoes to become faster.

AR vs VR
AR hacking works just as fast as VR hacking so Wired Reflexes work, but there is a difference.

VR hacking gains a dicepool bonus equal to the IP bonus the character has in the matrix as the actions he can perform are done at the speed of thought, and that is faster than any meat initiative.

IP1 +0 / IP2 +1D6 / IP3 +2D6 / IP4 +3D6 / IP5 +4D6

This would be in addition to the Hot-Sim +2 Dicepool bonus.

These VR bonuses also apply to Agents and IC.

MATRIX ACTION CHANGES
Probing The Target takes 24H regardless of AR or VR – Dice Pool Bonuses Apply Instead

End Result?

The hacker can go 5IP in hotsim and the TM 3IP at chargen.
The hacker can get a lot larger dicepool at chargen than the TM at chargen.
VR Hacking becomes more efficient.

Both are equally good at matrix work from start but the TM is slower but can improve his CF by threading and need karma to become better – The Hacker can be the best there is at chargen (Almost, need to upgrade programs) and can branch out later. The TM can keep up in advancements with the team without being a liability and can even get a bunch of echoes and still be efficient at something except hacking (like firing a gun and surviving a firefight if need be).

*EDITED* Changed a bit on Creating a CF from scratch
*EDITED 2* Added limit on net hits on threading.

Why 24 hours for probing? That makes hacking VR a lot less appealing.

Utter bullshit. Maximize Resonance and Software (threading) at chargen, sacrifice one point of resonance for an encephalon and pushed and a couple of other genetic goodies, such as an optimised logic attribute, buy codeslinger and aptitude (software), and you can BUY yourself all CFs at 4 any time, and with 2 initiations (aka 18 Karma) and 1 times the Swap echo, you can keep them up as many of them as you like at no penalty. With Unwired, the nescessity for having all CF in the book went straight out of the window.


With an interface that emphathises intuitive control by users, Logic as an attribute doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me here.


I'm with you with the Smartlink CF, which is totally nonsensical, sicne everyone else cannot just emulate the smartlink with a program. You kinda lose me with internal memory and simrig, though. The lack of memory is one of the few weaknessess of a techno (what with their biolink being unhackable, they being immune to malware, and virtually untracable). And why should all Technos have a built-in simrig? That's in line with the smartlink - if technos get away with just a program, why not everyone else?


Okay, now you definitly lost me. Are you trying to say that wired reflexes provide an obcene Bonus on Matrix actions? Or are you trying to say Acceleration should make a Techno even faster?

Personally, I'm pretty pissed at how much Unwired cripples the mundane Hacker concerning using Hot, compared to the techno ...


That's perfectly possible with RAW, too.

What hardware? All regular users need is a display or some sort with the smartlink addon (contacts/goggles/etc) and a smartlinked weapon. Since technos get the display as part of being a techno, all they need is the weapon to be smartlinked.

Yes, if we min-max the TM from the beginning so that he cannot do ANYTHING else BUT a few specific hacking options THEN we MIGHT get him functional after a few runs...

Just getting the Logic to 8 is 69BP and Resonance 6 is another 65BP Then we add skills like Tasking, Electronics and Cracking groups...and we have just spent 134BP on this and not even gotten to the point of having any complex forms yet, and jsut getting a minimum of say ten of them at rating 3 is another 30BP

Now we have spent 164BP and not even gotten close to having attributes that resembles that of a normal human with say 3 in physical attributes and some good skills to match to make him flexible.

The rules are too damn narrow to get a flexible and playable TM from scratch, and that should be the point of Chargen, not that i have to play the game for a few weeks/runs in order to get a good technomancer. Like the Otaku in SR3 they are crippled from start unless you min-max them to the end of the universe, and one shouldnt have to do that to get a good fun character to play.



Well, intuition isnt much worth it if you havent the logic to understand the basics of programming and the limitations of your programs, and its also a balance issue so that one doesnt have the complete retard at logic 1 being a hell of a hacker. Third is that we already have the skills from SR4 as a logic based skill for normal hackers.



Internal memory is somethign i find logical since they could have a part of their brain for that just as their persona is part of their brain, second is that the simrig which is just a more complex and detailed way of memorizing events and emotions, something the human body can do to a certain extent - it is not a program for them, its a basic ability.

The rules you quote above are all optional rules from the "Resonance Difference" and will differ from GM to GM, im a bit sceptical to some of them as they make TM's a bit too efficient (like uncrackable encryption).



NO. Wired Reflexes work as per raw, that is you can get 4IP in AR and AR only but nothing more.

Anyone doing full VR or Hotsim gains a dicebonus equal to their Ip bonus, thus gaining a dicepool bonus over the AR hackers who albeit their speed are slower.



I disagree.

Please check the SR4 book that has a piece of cyberware called Smartlink that costs essence and money.

Thus it is a piece of hardware and not just a software.

What you are describing is the SMARTGUN LINK that you have in the gun.

The reason for that is that the VR now gains a dicepool bonus the faster you are.

The entire Probing The Target and its different time it takes to do it goes against all the other matrix actions in the game as it has two different time tables.

Bigger dicepool usually makes more hits and thus lower the time it takes.

5Ip in the matrix and hotsim bonus gains +7D6 for hacking unlike AR that gives you 0.

I felt that the technomancer should have been done more as a type of pyschic that specializes in technology.

Yeah that same piece of hardware you can get in to your shades,sniper scope or whatever, that is something that tecnos all ready have naturally so they just need a CF to handle the smartlinks input.

An accessory for cybereyes is called smartlink, if thats what you're talking about. Takes either 0.1 essence, or 3 capacity. P332, " Smartlink:An implanted version of the smartlink enhancement (see p.323)."

Alternatively, P323, Smartlink image accessory, does the exact same function, but requires an image link. " Smartlink: This accessory interacts with a smartgun system (p. 311) to project the weapon’s angle of fire into the user’s vision, centering red crosshairs where the user is pointing and highlighting perceived targets. The smartgun’s laser rangefinder also calculates and displays the distance to the target. Additional data from the weapon, such as the ammunition level, heat buildup, and stress can also be displayed. Requires an image link."

Hermit, as I said in my other post, I don't think that having Swapx2 negates all threading penalties, just up to 2 points of them. I.E. You can thread 1 program with no penalty, 2 programs at a -2 penalty, and so on.

No they do not. They have a natural COMMLINK and an organic PAN with an IMAGELINK. Smartlink is a HARDWARE accessory that can be put into glasses OR cybereyes or as an independent cyberware LINKED to an image link.

They do not have the hardware to process information from a smartgun system and software wont cut it.

A similar comparacy would be that any runner could take a commlink and a pair of glasses with an image link on it and buy a software instead of spending Essence or getting the smartlink hardware into the glasses.

Giving such a thing to a TM as a freebie without essence cost or forced to use glasses with the hardware in it would be wrong.

The ONLY reason you need to put it into glasses is because it needs to be connected to an image link. Technos have a built in image link simply by virtue of being a techno. There is no magical thing about the hardware put into the cybereyes/glasses/etc other than that it has to be linked directly to the image link. Why do you think that you need to remove the ability for balance?

Would you please then tell me why this piece of gear just isn't a software for the rest of the masses that ARENT technos then?

Imagelink+Commlink+Smartlink Software should be the norm amongst shadowrunners in that case, but it isn't. So why should it be available as a piece of software for technos?

I wouldn't have had a problem with it if the rest of the world had it as a program on their commlink but they dont, its specifically listed as either a piece of gear or implant that cost essence or can be knocked off your head if they are put into glasses.

Oh well, nitpicking.

Its not as if i force you to use the rules.

To assist in aiming smartlink need information about where the user is currently looking and for that you need a small piece of hardware unless you're a techno.

Because, the smartlink needs to be attached to the image link to display the right point of reference. Since the image link is at a fixed point in relation to where you look, that gives a static reference, and it can figure out where the weapon is pointing in relation to that. If it was on your commlink, they could both move around, and would ruin that.

Technos have a built in image link, presumably, that displays to their eyes, much the same as having glasses/contacts with an image link do. Since its rather hard to attach a physical thing to a non-physical thing, they instead gave technos the option to use a virtual smartlink that they PAY KARMA FOR, rather than forcing them to either get cyberware, or wear glasses with an image link (a pointless expense, especially since they have one built in).

Again, why do you think they should NOT be able to do this? Balance? You just don't like it? You're still stuck in the SR3 model where it was cyberware ONLY to get a smartlink and you had to lose essence for it as it included a partial simrig?

OK, all this talk about hardware and software and the like is misleading. because for Technomancers, there is no practical difference between their hardware and software. It's all just structures in their brain and body that emulate specific functions.

What is a complex form? It's not an idea that they hold onto. It doesn't run on anything or get stored anywhere. It isn't Data. It's a natrual ability the TM possesses. So when a TM learns the smartgun CF, what's to say it doesn't include the necessary biological changes to emulate both the hardware and software aspects of the functionality?

Honestly, I have no Idea why people get so hung up on this. It is neither game breaking nor suspension-of-disbeleif breaking.

Back on topic.

First are you limiting TM's to Logic x 2 for number of complex forms? Being able to buy all of them at 6 with just cash would go a long way on it's own to making a TM playable.

Second, you seem to say there that Fading is too harsh for Threading and then propose two formulae that appear to be significantly harsher than the original one. Or did I miss something there? Can you provide a couple of comparison examples?

Thirdly, I agree with you on advanced CF's and would like to counter some of the arguments against simrig I've already seen. What has to be borne in mind here is that there are significant neurological differences between a TM and a normal example of his Meta-type. Additional nerve tissue that runs through their whole bodies that acts as their antenna for example. I don't see any reason that system cannot be co-opted to provide the equivalent of a Simrig or modified to provide Skillwires or Wired Reflexes or, or, or. (based on this logic I think Smartlink ought to be an echo rather than a CF)

Lastly, however, I'd like to revisit the Skill Checks issue. Taking Program/CF rating out of the equation is something I don't like. I like the idea of substituting Resonance for Logic but still the maths bothers me. Particularly with reference to Threading. Under the present system threading increases the number of dice that a TM rolls. This system, however, shrinks a TM's dicepool compared to a Hackers. There is little point threading a CF above 6 and using your system all TM's will have all CF's at 5 or 6 at chargen.

You have to bear in mind that hits are capped by dicepool also. Being able to have an Exploit of 16 is a waste of time if you only ever roll 14 dice.

Also bear in mind that most things are easily achieved with 5 or 6 hits and other things cannot be achieved with less than 4. Perhaps it would be wiser to use Skill + Program/CF with a cap of Logic/Resonance on hits per roll.

'per roll'

Nobody ever says that, but I think it's important to make it explicit here. Much of the Matrix system is based on extended tests and it would collapse in a big heap if your number of hits on an Extended Test were capped at either Program/CF rating or Stat.

Logic Cap is removed.

Original plan i had was also to limit the program rating one could start with to 4, this would give both the Hacker and TM something to reach for as it was usually the highest available program outside military or higher level programs, not something a two-bit runner might find in a jiffy.

It would also make threading more useful (i do think i should put it back).



Hmm, I might have been mistaken here. Sicne the TM can choose how many hits to use then the fading will also be less. My main problem was that threading itself became so extreme since one could use edge and thread programs to very high levels, in the case of a Stealth CF you could get it to 12 which really made discovery moot as one became completely invisible (since rolling 12 successes to find the TM would be close to impossible.

I also wanted to limit it as the TM could choose to freely how and when to use it. Since CF would be easier to gain from start i though that toning down and making the threading harsher would even things out.



Well, the cost of the Smartlink as a CF is not a problem for me as it is 1 bp which equals 5000y, i simply have a problem that a TM can simply skip the entire hardware part, and making it an Echo would make it stupendously expensive. They could buy glasses and use Wi-Fi like everyone else.



Right, this was why i wanted to limit it to 4 from start. The Dicepool for TM was intended to be less as they have other abilities. This way the hacker is the powerhouse from the start but the TM is the one who can get more powerful over time.

Limiting it to rating 4 would also be an incentive to use program options from start as they increase the availability of the programs.



Still, i have very, very seldom met someone who would have rolled 14 successes in a roll, and even fewer who managed to make a hacking on the fly test in one roll. Besides, using Edge would ignore all such limitations.



Actually it wouldn't - it would all depend on what kind of system the GM sets up against you.

I am a firm believer on the "proffessional rating" the system have set and that is usually a skill or attribute of 3 which means that would be a fair scale to use when hacking a system. Always finding Firewall 6 and rating 6 IC in every commlink and system will make the game boring in the end.

Rating 3 is your average company, rating 4 is security and lonestar, rating 5 is AA and high security and rating 6 is military grade stuff that scare the bejeezus out of most people.

Which mean that most proffessional systems and corps that you would face have a treshold of 6 (Response+Firewall) making it rather balanced with smaller dicepools.

Still, this is MY view of the game and might differ from everyone elses.

With this system it is still possibly to create a 5IP hacker that rolls 30+dice on an exploit test - but he will only gain 4 net hits as his program is only rating 4, but he WILL get those hits and be inside the system before the system can find him and do something about it.

Sure, the TM will be lagging behind and have fewer dice but with Paragons, Qualities and Threading they will manage rather well, and be stronger in time, without a rather crippling build at the beginning.

Edited the amount of net hits one can generate on threading to make it a bit more balanced.

I'd be happy to allow Smartlink to be a software program rather than a separate piece of cyber from the imagelink.

Actually, its not that descriptive of it, maybe it already is just a program that runs on the device which has the image link.