Has anyone played around with this? I like it, but it seems like TMs would suffer a lot of fading.

It's a bit of an aside, but I suspect that the reason that spells and CFs work differently in the first place is that spells are used intermittently, to change something in the magician's environment, and CFs are used all the time, to do everything in the technomancer's environment.

We haven't used it, mostly because it seems like there are a few problems. Like, if you're using a passive CF, say, Stealth while exploiting, do you need to "cast" and sustain that as well as your exploit? So you have to resist fading twice when you hack into something? And you'd have to sustain it as well?

It seemed if those things were true, then this is more limiting to techomancers than beneficial. And, yes, fading starts to get real nasty when you have to resist it basically every other turn. (Cybercombat would be a pain... your analyse form, your attack form, your shield form, your armor form, etc... you'd probably end up knocking yourself out, saving the IC the trouble).

With this option I have to wonder what the heck the point of Threading is?

Yeah, that's my guess as well.



I hadn't thought of that.



Threading could still give you access to complex forms that you don't actually know, but since you don't choose a rating any more, I'm not sure how you'd determine the fading one would experience from the thread.

You do use a rating when you use a CF, though - so maybe one solution (not that I am an advocate of this alternate rule, either) would be to treat the threading fading the same as the fading for using the CF - and only apply it once.

So, a TM wants to thread a spoof program, which he wants to use at rating 4. Rolls software+resonance, and gets his 4 successes - but rather than resisting 4 DV of fading, he only resists 2. Of course, every time he uses that CF, he has to resist another 2.... so even though it is lower, its probably a net loss for the TM over time.

Of course, to me, the whole thing didn't make any sense EXCEPT with threading, because, like mages, a TM should be resisting drain when he "casts" something (in this case, the emulation of a new CF) and once he's sustaining it, he can use it as often as he likes (a mage sustaining "increased reflexes" doesn't have to resist drain every time he acts). CFs that the TM paid karma for are a lot more like quickened spells - where you have them on or available all the time. Once could argue that attack programs are like combat spells and should be resisted each time, but without a complete rewrite of the system, its a mess. It also doesn't seem to take program options into account, or factor in that some types of spells have higher drain than others (but all CFs use a pretty weak drain value).

The whole thing came off, to me, as sort of a last minute addition - the sort of thing I would expect a friend of mine who likes to tinker with RPG systems to come up with but never really test out. Also, if your goal is to merge TMs and mages to use the same system... TMs shouldn't be able to thread any more than mages can make up new spells on the fly.

"Boo" on the whole thing.

I have it on fairly good authority that the rule was written under duress.

While I like the idea (& my GM has decided to use it), it is poorly written and thought out. A few examples of what I mean would be 'sustained' programs, such as Stealth, Armor, & Shield. Simple enough to fix, though - you "cast" them once and sustain them with a -2 per program. Another problem would be the Analyze - you need the program to interact with anything in the matrix, yet it is not a sustained program. So now every time you do anything, you must resist fading. And finally, the previously mentioned reduced use of Threading. No idea how to fix this yet, as I have not bothered to look into it much.

Overall, the idea is an improvement, but as written, needs serious modifications to work.

If you were going to do that you'd treat "Analyze" like assensing and make it a skill.

Were I to try and synchronize up mages and hackers, I'd do the "physmage" approach. Passive or always-on TM abilities would be purchased at a rating while those that are more transitory would be like spells. E.g. Reality Filters, ECCM & Armor would be purchased at a rating while combat programs (Attack, Exploit, Medic) would be spell-like.

The whole suite of Analyze/Scan/Sniffer/Track CFs never made sense to me. These people innately connect to a network but they can't see or understand the devices they are broadcasting to? Total idiocy. Create a new skill, "Analyzing" equivalent to mage's Assensing that handles Matrix perception tests. Mage's analyze, detect, eavesdrop, and track other astral creatures without knowing spells, TMs should be able to do the same kinds of things on the matrix

"Powers" would be purchased at the existing CF BP/karma costs, while "spells" would be bought using the spell BP/karma costs. Threading would be limited to boosting or temporarily possessing a "power" but not a "spell." (I would also refer to "powers" as Static Forms and "spells" as Dynamic Forms to keep the "form" concept but still differentiate)

This ups the fading the TMs will take in combat as they take fading from their offensive dynamic forms. However they probably know more Forms in general since the combat Complex Forms had to be taken at such a high rating to be effective and those BP/karma are freed up. Turning the Analyze/Scan/Sniffer/Track forms into a skill is probably a null issue at character gen but is a cost savings for burning karma.

Alternately Static Forms could be bought like Adept powers (you get Resonance worth of levels) but that is much more complicated and would take a lot of effort to game balance.


Common Use
analyze - add a skill to TMs equivalent to "Assensing" e.g. Analyzing skill + Resonance for tests
browse - Dynamic Form (spell) e.g. Detect Data
command - Dynamic Form (spell) e.g. Control Machine
edit -Dynamic Form (spell)
encrypt - Static Form (power) - e.g. Voice Control (only because encryption is so necessary)
reality filter - Static Form (power) - e.g. Attribute Boost
scan - specific action for "Analyzing+Resonance" equivalent to finding astral signatures

Hacking
armor - Static Form (power) e.g. Mystic Armor
attack -Dynamic Form (spell)
biofeedback filter - Static Form (power) - innate to TMs automatically
black hammer-Dynamic Form (spell)
blackout -Dynamic Form (spell)
databomb -Dynamic Form (spell)
decrypt -Dynamic Form (spell)
defuse -Dynamic Form (spell)
eccm - Static Form (power) e.g. Improved Attribute
exploit -Dynamic Form (spell)
medic - Dynamic Form (spell)
sniffer - specific action for "Analyzing+Resonance", possibly a high threshold test of Analyzing
spoof -Dynamic Form (spell)
stealth - Static Form (power) e.g. Kinesis
track - use similar mechanic to astral tracking & roll into analyzing skill, probably using interval of 1 combat turn.

I'm less inclined to worry about the game balance (important though it is) and more inclined to worry about the KISS Principle, at least in regard to the direction this thread is headed.

What I´m opposed to is the endless number of dice rolls this method creates. Sustaining penalties are IMO out because a) all CFs are active all the time, and b) they would be large enough to remove TMs from the matrix.

KISS is buying hits on the fading test. Fading resistance pool / 4, round down, multiply by two, add 1 = "free" CF rating. Should reasonably be 5 (FR 8 dice), will be 7 soonish (FR 12 dice).

This strongly suggests to rule a fading-free CF rating of (resonance attribute), resulting in very similar ratings, but no rolling of dice. TMs can still thread for some extra oomph.