Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Firefly type SR
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
sunnyside
There may have been threads out when it was newer. But I just saw firefly, thought it was pretty awsome, and couldn't help noticing that in many respects it was like watching a shadowrun TV series. It was even strong in the classic Cyberpunk themes. Just short on the hacking and mirrorshades.

Particularly since the tech level is generally equal to or lower than SR. Except for the whole going in between planets thing.

Change planets to countries and the firefly class with a T-bird and you're good to go.

There seem to be two cheif issues with running a game with that feel.

First they need to be country hopping. Personally I'd see UCAS/Seattle/Urban CAS as sort of like the core worlds and place like the NAN, Trans Siberia, and some lower population/Appalachian regions of the CAS to stand in for various border planets. Plenty of even horses to be had if interested.

The trick then is getting the runners on a T-bird or or at least a tilt wing. They make it hard to start a team in one of those things this edition.

Actually maybe come up with rules for a Jet type tilt wing. That would fit and at least using the old Rigger book it might be reasonably priced for a starting group. Or maybe a turbofan thing.

Kinda like
[img]http://www.aerofiles.com/bell-x22a.jpg[/img]

Any thoughts on getting such a thing to work. Anybody try it? Does the vehicle just get in the way (tend to get blown up unless you're unrealistic).
kigmatzomat
The game I'm in now is Firefly/SR. We're actually doing the "interplanetary survey" kind of game, where we've been assigned a continent to explore. We're not entirely on our own but help's 12+ hours away by orbital drop pod and it better be a darned good reason.

If you want to use the SR-verse, go for Australia or Amazonia. Both areas reshape themselves constantly, meaning that it is always unexplored territory out of the few small towns in stable regions. The PCs can be hired to deliver supplies, go on bug-hunts, do escort missions (mages looking to do rituals in high magic, talismongers looking for the super-exotics, corporate gene-hunters tracking down a cure for Vitas or just the next soda flavor), engage in ecoterrorism/piracy, whatever.

Skip the T-bird and go for a hovercraft or two. We treat the Everglade as the hover-version of the Bulldog. For under 40,000 nuyen.gif you can have a rigged Everglade with suncell, extra batteries, environment adaptation, and a few other minor upgrades. We have an Everglade, a couple of bikes, and a Rover 2070 for exploring mountainous terrain.

I tow a stormcloud on a 100m cable like a kite to give immediate overwatch while an Optic-X does scouting. We have a couple Bust-a-Moves with gecko tips and various skins to act as bait or do scouting in tight environments. A pair of Dobermans and LEBDs round out security and let people sleep with a bit of safety.
sunnyside
Hovercraft is a good idea. Especially if you can add some fuction to let them move up higher grades.

That said they don't really capture the fly away feeling.

Regardless if anyone runs a fairly vehicle centric campaign how do you balance it out with defenses. Vehicles are pricey and go down pretty easily to anti vehicle weaponry.

And perhapse more importantly you can't just use first aid or a spell to slap them back together. Thoug hI suppose repair skills help.

Siege
It's not unfeasible for a runner crew to work for a smuggler/independent transporter. Think bush pilots doing supply delivery and passenger transport runs to the wilds of Alaska or Australia today.

Jump ahead to SR and you need people to deliver supplies to remote areas where land routes are impassable or impractical - Australia or the Amazon (as mentioned earlier) are prime examples.

Figure you have a pilot, cargo loader/unloaders, security, medical, mechanic, cargo master. Some people will likely pull double duties, but that's also the basis for a runner crew. A rigger is great, but there are also reasons why you'd want manual backups. A glass cannon is invaluable for flexibility and versatility.

Other examples - Han Solo before joining the Rebels was an indie cargo hauler.

-Siege

Edit: And low-flying aircraft are more likely to have manual door gunners than higher-flying vehicles.
Chrysalis
How about the smuggling between the Florida Keys, the Caribbean and South-America?
Gelare
I've considered such a game many times, especially since the Firefly episodes "Trash" and "Ariel" could be converted into actual shadowruns without even a second thought. What I would do is say, "Hey guys, let's play Firefly Shadowrun," and then they'd make their 400 BP characters and I'd just straight up give them a Firefly (T-Bird). The toughest part, I'd expect, is integrating AR and VR into it, but it can probably be done. Make sure someone on the team takes Pilot and someone takes Mechanic (or whatever the appropriate skill is, I can't recall), and you're all set.
sunnyside
QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 19 2008, 06:27 PM) *
Edit: And low-flying aircraft are more likely to have manual door gunners than higher-flying vehicles.


Actually that's a great point to keep the rest of the team active if they get into vehicle combat.

QUOTE (Gelare @ Jul 19 2008, 06:36 PM) *
I've considered such a game many times, especially since the Firefly episodes "Trash" and "Ariel"


Also "The Train Job" and others as well, though Trash and Ariel are the more elaborate runs we're used to. But as the show demonstrates the fun can be in the complications.

QUOTE (Gelare @ Jul 19 2008, 06:36 PM) *
The toughest part, I'd expect, is integrating AR and VR into it, but it can probably be done.


I actually wouldn't expect that. Signal is pretty high on drones and aircraft which means your hacker can get at them. Also there will probably have to be lots of hacking to get clearances, through borders, and to get info. In not, obviously, during the run themselves.

Magic would of course fit in well (almost have to have the thing warded).


If you give them a T-bird I'd almost be more worried about the guy who is just sitting around since you can't really just shoot out of a door. Though a T-bird does have multiple weapons systems (more Millenium falcon there).

I increasingly like the idea of a duct/Turbofan/duct tilt wing. Just because it seems so similar to the design and is cheaper. Though obviously a step down on the aviation food chain. Though you could throw some solid rocket boosters or something onto the tilt wing. That's be appropriate enough.
Siege
Keep in mind, vehicle to vehicle combat would probably be less common in the outlying areas than, say, local hostiles with surface-to-air missiles.

Any kind of cargo hauler is most likely going to lose any kind of duel with HK drones or SOTA intercept vehicles - they'll dance around the slower target and cut it to pieces from a distance or in blind spots. Of course, the chances of running into either in the backwoods is few and far between and even then, they likely won't be cutting edge.

Defense options include a dedicated drone rigger on board to run interference (think Protoss Mothership), escort vehicles or cobbled together belly turrets.

Although, door gunners and the like may still be used to defend against cranky paranormal critters looking for a snack. grinbig.gif

-Siege
sunnyside
QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 19 2008, 06:47 PM) *
Although, door gunners and the like may still be used to defend against cranky paranormal critters looking for a snack. grinbig.gif


Well door gunner is a fairly vague term. I'd think poking a missile launcher out would count. Plus until you start going to other sourcebooks for really mil spec kit there are firearms with missile like range. Notably the assault cannon. And if you ticked someone off enough that they're firing SRs equivalent to a $477,131 AIM-54 Phoenix than you probably richly deserve what you may get. grinbig.gif

You do have a good point about running into less out in the boonies. Maybe some spirits or some such.

I suppose that's how firefly itself operated. The thing wasn't supposed to be especially fast, and was totally unarmed. It just enjoyed not having competition out in the boonies and worked to appear legit when in Alliance areas.

Something else I thought of. Often for flavor reason the craft used by people are quite used (Firefly, Millenium Falcon).

This could be used to put some otherwise pricey things into a runners price range right out of the core book. Notably the Fed Boeing Commuter. As a tilt wing it'd give them range and VTOL capability. Have someone right up some inflatable pontoons it can deploy instead of landing gear when you want and you can get about anywhere with a crew some cargo.

There were official rules for used vehicles back in Rigger 3 but I don't think I liked them.

In SR4 I'd give steep discounts for applying the gremlins flaw at varying levels to the vehicle(my preference), requirements for downtime between runs that could strand them someplace (at least convenient for some plots), or maybe just that every session you roll 2d6 and if you get snake eyes todays episode is "Out of Gas".
Gelare
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Jul 19 2008, 08:20 PM) *
...or maybe just that every session you roll 2d6 and if you get snake eyes todays episode is "Out of Gas".


Heh, very well put.
nezumi
As a note, it's also worth watching Cowboy Bebop for other aspects of this - especially the matrix stuff.
kigmatzomat
If you want to give them a T-bird or other big aircraft, give it a couple of weapon mounts. Heck, put a couple of smart firing platforms since those can be assigned to people inside the vehicle. Or go with manual weapon mounts, like the weapon stations in the Millenium Falcon. I figure you can have 1 pilot, 2-3 gunners, and an electronic warfare operator (making sensor lock actions, trying to apply jamming, etc). Instant party involvement.

As long as the players know what kind of equipment they'll need to operate, they will pick up the skills. Sure, they'll grouse about the medtech knowing gunnery, at least until they shoot down their first opponent. Odds are you'll get levels of redundancy, so when the rigger gets taken out one or two other people can still fly the craft.

I'm the rigger in our SR/Firefly game. In full-on combat, I retask the driving of the hovercraft to our face character (he's got wires & pilot ground vehicle:4) while I operate the combat drones. We've got a roof hatch on the hovercraft, so one of our sams can blaze away with his Alpha. The Rover, driven by our medtech, is equipped with a manual pintle mount operated by the sam who has gunnery (but not enough pilot skill for me to trust with a drone except in extreme circumstances).

The technomancer (alien nanotech IMC) doesn't have gunnery so he runs the sensors on the unarmed drones (our GM lets sensor lock from other drones provide an "AR Bonus" against that target, at least until we get Unwired and tactical nets) and sends a Fault sprite or two through our WAN to keep out intruders. And his machine sprites with Diagnostics are everyone's friend.
Siege
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jul 21 2008, 01:45 AM) *
Odds are you'll get levels of redundancy, so when the rigger gets taken out one or two other people can still fly the craft.


This should be tattooed on every newbie runner. "Sun Tzu's Art of Shadowrunning."

-Siege
Fuchs
I'd give the group not a t-bird, but a ship - something small, with some weapon mounts. Then ahve them travel over the seven seas, delivering supplies to everyone who pays, and doing odd jobs.

There's an old french/belgian comic, "Andy Morgan", who has that theme, as well as the manga "Black Lagoon". It seems more flexible than the T-Bird since people can actually live on the ship.
Sir_Psycho
Also, Cyberpirates is a whole book about just that sort of game.
paws2sky
If you want to go the T-Bird smuggler route...

There was a time period post-crash 2.0 when the infrastructure was still hosed, that smuggling restrictions were loosened to allow T-Birders to service small, isolated communities. It varied from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but for the most part, people were just happy to be able to get essentials like, you know, food.

Opposition could come in the form of rival smugglers, hijackers, "loose cannon" law enforcement, hostile elements in towns, paracritters, etc.

kigmatzomat
You can get some real fun missions in that period. Odds are there are several facilities, governmental or corporate that were cut off either due to intermediate services or computer failures. Think of the military bases where the computers went haywire and decided to reverse their IFF logic (If IFF=mine then shoot, else grant access).

Heck, many were "lost" when the records got destroyed. Oh sure, some of that data was restored but when you use twenty seven international shell corporations to provide a cut out, there's too many chances of things vanishing.

kigmatzomat
QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 20 2008, 09:26 PM) *
This should be tattooed on every newbie runner. "Sun Tzu's Art of Shadowrunning."
-Siege


Heh. It was my SR2 character's motto. Between various skill boosters and careful review of the skill web, I could roll at least 2 dice on any active test before karma pool. More than once I caught the GM by surprise.

One run we were supposed to start out without gear, and probably injured, in Amazonia. The pilot of the all-manual helicopter we were riding in got killed by a spirit and we were supposed to dive out of the chopper into the river to avoid dying in a fiery crash. Instead I pulled off 4 successes to land the damaged chopper in the rain forest. While we didn't get all our gear (he had the chopper catch fire from spirit damage) we were well ahead of the game.

I did that to him two or three times over a couple of years. "The only way off the island is the hovercraft..." "looks like the only radio in town is broken..." "you'd have to navigate cross country without GPS..."

Took him long enough, but he finally factored it in to the encounters. At least once he confessed he didn't have a way for us to really survive but figured we'd come up with one that made sense.
nezumi
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jul 21 2008, 04:33 PM) *
At least once he confessed he didn't have a way for us to really survive but figured we'd come up with one that made sense.


When your GM has reached this point, you have attained Shadowrun zen. Congratulations.
sunnyside
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 21 2008, 02:44 AM) *
Also, Cyberpirates is a whole book about just that sort of game.


I've got that somewhere deep in a closet somewhere. I remember they had a section for submarine based running. Though most subs are worth about enough to just retire off of.

On weapon mounts. Those are tricky unless you house rule concealed mounts, kicking some combat drones out the back is a good idea though.

On a side note if you use a technomancer properly you don't need gunnery to be an expert combat drone controller. You could start a thread here on it if you want the details and numbers.

But beyond that one thing from firefly was the whole "it isn't armed" bit. They didn't even use illegal weapons (lasers, other heavy stuff).

This because, is reasonably threatening vehicle combat you should lose the craft all to easily. So flying away from people who can't follow(or can only send a drone), and playing it legit for the military forces could be a way to keep the ship intact over many adventures.

Using an actual ship could be interesting for the "living there" aspect. Or taking on extra people for transit. But I dunno.
crash2029
In thinking ways to emulate Firefly in SR my first two thoughts were either to stay in space and do runs between orbital platforms, lunar bases, mars, ect. In such a game you would have to figure out a way to allow magic without magicians' heads exploding, but it could be done.

In a more terrestrial game I would recommend using a zeppelin. It flies, it has lots of room, the runners could (theoretically) clamber about on the outside. It could be upgraded with all kinds of neat stuff.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (crash2029 @ Jul 21 2008, 05:52 PM) *
In thinking ways to emulate Firefly in SR my first two thoughts were either to stay in space and do runs between orbital platforms, lunar bases, mars, ect. In such a game you would have to figure out a way to allow magic without magicians' heads exploding, but it could be done.


I'm working on rules for Psionics in SR. Let's face it Technomancers are Psions. They can do drek that the rest of humanity can't and it's not magic. I figure that if a Technomancer has psionic ability why not another kind of psion. Don't worry (as if) folks, my rules will be balanced (maybe a tad cruel against the Psi) and NOT be a "Gee look at me... I'm UBER!!!!" power gamers wet dream.
Sir_Psycho
Sr3 had rules for psionic characters. They were sort of aspected magicians with a wierd magical paradigm.
sunnyside
What would psionics add to SR anyway? You could do River as some weird mystic adept with a ranged mind probe spell. And I don't think you have to follow the series that closely.
paws2sky
Psionics would give you another paradigm for mystical stuff that isn't magic.

I think it'd be most useful for someone that wanted to eliminate RAW magic from their games. I've met a couple people over the years who disliked SR's take on magic.

For a group that wanted to play in a space-based game, a psionics system would allow them to have magic-like abilities without completely screwing the poor mage.

For a conventional SR game... well, you probably wouldn't gain much.
Sir_Psycho
By canon, Background Count and Mana Warps effect Psionicists just as bad as any other magician. Conventional magical theory assumes this is because they still get their powers from the same manasphere as all other magicians, but many psionicists argue that their powers are a channeling of latent psychokinetic powers and an intuitive link to the world's subjective unconscious. So they're basically a wierd sect of magicians playing with Jung's archetypal theories. It's a semantic argument, though, as background count still nails them as bad as any other magician.

Back on topic, I think an interesting (and canon) way of running a Firefly Campaign is with a tilt-wing (Hawker Riddley Skytrain, Arsenal) - It's big, ugly, cumbersome and awkward, just like Firefly. Give the team (around) 50 BP worth of Nuyen to spend on their team craft, and let them spend extra money upgrading it and buying other vehicles, such as a ground vehicle (A Skytrain can carry an APC, so a land rover or maybe a hovercraft could work), and Drones. If you want them to have a lot of vehicles and gear, you could even give 100 BP to group pool. Make sure everyone has a role within the tilt-wing, and out. For the rigger this is easy, as he'll have the plane to fly, but also support and attack drones to rig. The hacker also has a role in Electronic Warfare against craft, in addition to hacking duties (forging "legitimate" logs and manifests comes to mind). A magician can use spells and spirit powers (conjuror would really shine, here) to aid the trip. The problem will be combat roles like Sams, and other roles such as Stealthy roofrat characters and faces. The gunnery skill will be their friend. Using mounted machine guns and launchers would be cool. Repair skills would also help (Tense mid dogfight repairs!).

The middle east seems like a good analogue for the outlying worlds in Firefly. It's a vast and alien landscape, with lots of factions to take care of. Australia is also very good for this (especially due to mana storms and the water trade).
KCKitsune
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jul 22 2008, 08:36 AM) *
Psionics would give you another paradigm for mystical stuff that isn't magic.

For a group that wanted to play in a space-based game, a psionics system would allow them to have magic-like abilities without completely screwing the poor mage.

For a conventional SR game... well, you probably wouldn't gain much.


Except you could have a character that could operate anywhere without having to worry about magic field density. This character can work in space or in a magic null area.

QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 22 2008, 06:34 AM) *
Sr3 had rules for psionic characters. They were sort of aspected magicians with a wierd magical paradigm.


I REALLY wish they would not have had that. Also with Technomancers, I think that the idea of powers that are like magic, but not magic (read Psionics) is very real.

@Everyone: Trust me on this... my rules will give you a character, but it will be limited. When I'm ready I'll post the rules here in this thread since it seems the most appropriate place to do so.
sunnyside
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jul 22 2008, 07:36 AM) *
For a group that wanted to play in a space-based game, a psionics system would allow them to have magic-like abilities without completely screwing the poor mage.

For a conventional SR game... well, you probably wouldn't gain much.


Ok. I suppose I can buy that. Magic in space without having to rewrite RAW. Though presumably to be balanced it would have to be weaker by far and probably limited in effect compared to low background count magic.

Actually I can see that fitting

-Corps would want it to mystify their employees that aren't magic

-AIs might want to do it just to see if they can after the Technomancers

-Anybody might want it so it can operate in space

-Certain people hoping to beat the next Scourge would want it to fight in tainted zones.

Fine enough.

I think some confusion in this thread is from the psionic rules put out earlier. In those rules psions were just more misguided mages, there were a couple types like that.

The other people are talking about something more like technomancy.

However, for my 2 cents, I would strongly advise again making it double as magic. Technomancy is just a little off of what a brain could do. Particularily the organic wireless link (our brians do give off EM radiation and receive it, just not to that degree at all). Psionics would probably work best also taking "near" stuff. Things that interact with other minds (organic linking of minds), or of control of ones own body. I don't think psions should be throwing fireballs.
paws2sky
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho @ Jul 22 2008, 07:41 AM) *
By canon, Background Count and Mana Warps effect Psionicists just as bad as any other magician. Conventional magical theory assumes this is because they still get their powers from the same manasphere as all other magicians, but many psionicists argue that their powers are a channeling of latent psychokinetic powers and an intuitive link to the world's subjective unconscious. So they're basically a wierd sect of magicians playing with Jung's archetypal theories. It's a semantic argument, though, as background count still nails them as bad as any other magician.


Well, yeah. By canon, they are magicians. Their paradigm (tradition) is just screwed up and inherently limited.

What I think is being proposed (what I was thinking about anyway) was a separate system for psionics. In the same way that TMs are similar to Hackers, Psionics would be similar to Magic.

QUOTE (KCKITSUNE)
@Everyone: Trust me on this... my rules will give you a character, but it will be limited. When I'm ready I'll post the rules here in this thread since it seems the most appropriate place to do so.


I think I see where you're going with this.

Out of curiosity, were you thinking of having Psi's buy powers like TMs buy Complex Forms?
KCKitsune
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Jul 22 2008, 08:31 AM) *
Out of curiosity, were you thinking of having Psi's buy powers like TMs buy Complex Forms?


Nope. As soon as I'm done I'll post it. They will be like magicians, but limited. Kinda like 2nd edition aspected mages. I'm trying to make sure the rules are fair. I don't want anybody to look at these rules and say: "Oh, joy, ANOTHER set of munchkin power gamer rules." I should have it done by tonight or tomorrow night.
sunnyside
Aw. So they throw fireballs and stuff? C'mon don't go down that route. We don't need "select Shaman, mage, or psion" or what have you.

I'd say make something novel that sticks to more reasonable/traditional psionic capabilities.

Sir_Psycho
A sufficiently strong mentat (psionicist) should be able to accelerate particles enough to ignite. They are also often good at manipulation spells, and lacking in some others. Some GM's rule they can learn Invisibility, but not Improved Invisibility.
Kyoto Kid
...wohah the TV show...

...oh waitaminute, that's right, I'm on Dumpshock and not the Daz3D forums. Was about to say that only Poser and not D|S uses the Firefly Render engine.

...been AWOL waaaaayy too long.

OK off to do pennance by rereading the entire Drop Bear thread.
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 22 2008, 04:21 PM) *
Nope. As soon as I'm done I'll post it. They will be like magicians, but limited. Kinda like 2nd edition aspected mages. I'm trying to make sure the rules are fair. I don't want anybody to look at these rules and say: "Oh, joy, ANOTHER set of munchkin power gamer rules." I should have it done by tonight or tomorrow night.


Our firefly game has "magic" as well. The GM has tapped several books for alien races so we have the Naga (sentient nanite planet eaters) and the Dal-Rys (gengineering symbiotes).

Technomancers and some physads (cybermen) are the result of autonomous Naga nanite uplift. Humans who are linked to Naga more directly are Warlocks. Warlocks are essentially mystic adepts but can only cast Physical spells. Spells are programs or new nanite-hives. They can "summon" by releasing a nanite cloud. Think the "technomage" from B5.

Dal uplift creates physads (Neo-Dar or Neo-Darwinians) who evolve at will (well, with karma expenditure). Humans who are implanted with a sentient Dal symbiote are Dal-Men, which are mystic adepts that can only cast Mana spells. Their "summons" are extruded protoplasmic creatures. (And Dal powers drive human physicists and biologists nuts because it is closer to SR magic. Nagatech is beyond human physicists as well but at least the Nagas start of with newtonian physics before bringing in hyperphase math.)

Both can use ritual summoning but the "spirit" is absorbed by the Warlock/Dal-Man and released as needed. Warlock ritual material are highly refined materials that have been powdered to the "nano" level. Dal-Men need either exotic foodstuffs or large quanties of normal fare that they extract the otherwise trace quantities of specific nutrients.

As a "geas" at Initiation/Submersion, the individual may take a physical expression. So if a cyberman initiated for the Armor power, his skin would acquire a metallic sheen while a NeoDar might get scales. Enhanced Senses result in weird eyes/ears/etc. Warlock expression tend to look like circuit-diagram tatoos. Dal-Men acquire Geiger-esque features. Physical expression can be taken multiple times, each time increasing the penalty to non-intimidation social interaction.
nezumi
Rather than reinvent psionics, I would strongly recommend you seek out Sphynx's rules on the subject, which have already been tested and seemed quite good by my recokoning.
paws2sky
Argh, I hate this site's search function.

Anyway, here's what nezumi is talking about: Sphynx's Psionics rules
Siege
QUOTE (kigmatzomat @ Jul 23 2008, 01:47 PM) *
Our firefly game has "magic" as well. The GM has tapped several books for alien races so we have the Naga (sentient nanite planet eaters) and the Dal-Rys (gengineering symbiotes).


I love and hate this.

-Siege
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 23 2008, 12:03 PM) *
I love and hate this.


What's the good vs. bad?

I haven't read any of the novels he's referencing so I'm not sure what may be in store for us. So far it works but the aliens are super rare. We've run into a couple of uplifted (physad) individuals and have a TM in the group. The full hybrids (warlocks & Dal-Men) are incredibly uncommon and mostly in military, ambassadorial, or advanced R&D roles.

The dal are intrigued at another sentient species but they are very alien. Since they are all empathic (astrally perceiving), they just don't interact the way we do and they never developed much in the way of technology. Their slowships are living creatures. Their main commercial interest in humanity is FTL flight and long range communications and primarily provide delta grade bioware grown by their client species. A handful want information on the wider universe and agree to a dal-human merger.

The naga are believed to be some form of refinery nanites, created by a long-lost race, that at some point gained sentience. Left to their own devices, nagas draw power from the planet's core as they reduce it to component materials over several millenia. Each naga has a unique and distinct personality and there is no real "naga community" due to their lack of FTL communication. Nagas tend to be interested in various cultures and trade nagatech for experiential data (movies, songs, books) and the Warlocks are living embodiment of experiential data traded for tech as Warlocks treat their naga as Mentor spirits.
Siege
Strictly from my point of view, of course.

1. I love the mechanical and story justification for the existing mechanics.

2. Pet peeve - I hate the notion of "group/racial technology." Babylon 5 was bad about this - the notion of "Minbari Technology" or "Narn Technology" as if it was a racial property ala d20 (elves and secret doors) and not just a different utilization of existing natural materials and principals.

By comparison, mages and their ilk are highly individualized with respect to their magic.

Like I said, just a personal quirk - I got annoyed with "Borg Technology" and the living enemy from "Voyager" as well.

-Siege
KCKitsune
Just as an update... I sent Paws2Sky the rules that I made just so I can have an unbiased opinion about them. I really do mean that I want rules that are fair and NON-Munchkin. As soon as Paws gets back to me, I'll post them.
Sir_Psycho
You should probably start a thread for that, this one is getting a bit off topic.
paws2sky
I'll second the notion of a new thread, maybe in Community Projects?

KCKitsune, I'll try to get back with you by the end of the day. Yesterday was... hectic. smile.gif
kigmatzomat
QUOTE (Siege @ Jul 23 2008, 06:41 PM) *
1. I love the mechanical and story justification for the existing mechanics


Since I did the mechanics conversion I'm glad to hear it.

QUOTE
2. Pet peeve - I hate the notion of "group/racial technology." Babylon 5 was bad about this - the notion of "Minbari Technology" or "Narn Technology" as if it was a racial property ala d20 (elves and secret doors) and not just a different utilization of existing natural materials and principals.


Well, that's just human nature. Classify something by source until it becomes common. E.g. Indian curry - curry, Chinese silk, silk.

Though I use it in a particular fashion to mean any device that only a naga can manufacture or that mankind still doesn't understand. E.g. humanity builds warpdrives but still has no idea why it works. The nagatech powercells are understood but require nano-assembly we haven't mastered.

But it cuts both ways. Take the Dal: all their stuff is literally alive. You have to feed it and occassionally clean up after it. Sometimes you have to pet it.

As a result, most Dal are very weirded out by humantech b/c it doesn't have an aura. Our gear is very sterile & barren. Literally lifeless. And glass doors drive them insane (transparent *and* no aura).

They grow specialized lifeforms to wrap around the humantech so there's something living to interact with.

Voran
In case it wasn't also mentioned yet, I'd recommend using the cinematic rules variant from the BBB. For the playerchars, things are more cinematic, less gritty. Sure there's death, if you take Serenity the movie, but in general character shields were strong, allowing the characters to be Big Damn Heroes.
sunnyside
QUOTE (Voran @ Aug 18 2008, 04:48 AM) *
In case it wasn't also mentioned yet, I'd recommend using the cinematic rules variant from the BBB. For the playerchars, things are more cinematic, less gritty. Sure there's death, if you take Serenity the movie, but in general character shields were strong, allowing the characters to be Big Damn Heroes.



Actually I'd disagree with that. Especially compared to other shows. They'd get hit from time to time, and when they did they tended to go down.

I'd say it's more that they didn't get themselves in situations where they're up against automatic weapons fire, or without cover.

Actually they had relatively few gunfights at all. Mostly dramatic standoffs and fisticuffs. And occasional bits where they're running using full dodge for a bit.

What gunbattles did they get into...

first military battle. Dead dude with some speaking lines results, along with others
fight with prudence Zoe takes a fair bit stun damage when a round fails to penetrate, Mal takes a couple boxes of physical damage
fight when they deliver the cattle Shepard takes at least 7. And not a lot of shots were fired at them really.
fight in the train job -mal takes some damage, bad guys started out outnumbered and generally roll bad on initiative. The one they charges into combat is just being retarded.

War Stories with Niska- Ok some characters sheild there. Maybe high edge?


Actually I think a bigger issue here is how to have the dramatic standoffs as most players will generally just throw down when you wave guns at them with anything but stupidly lopsided odds (and even then...)


Also how would one handle the mechanics for the classic case of grabbing a person and holding a gun to them.
KCKitsune
OK guys, I said earlier in this thread that I would create rules for Psionics for SR4. Since this thread was necro'd by Voran, I would post my Psion rules idea here. I would like to think these rules are fair and non-munchkin, but I most likely missed something. So what I'm asking is that everyone here read these rules and make some comments (including grammar and such) on them. I did get paws2sky to be my sounding board so that my rules were fair, so I would like to thank him for helping me. grinbig.gif


Psionic Powers in Shadowrun


When the Sixth Age began, there was only one type of metaphysical power and that was Magic. Magic "explained" all of the weird and bizarre happenings that occurred during the Fifth Age. Then in 2064 with the "Crash of '64" metahumanity gained access to a second kind of "metaphysical" power. That was the power of virtuakinesis, or "Technomancy". People who can access the Matrix without using any equipment. Now in the Sixth Age a third kind of metaphysical power has manifested itself. That is the power of the Mind unleashed. It is better known as Psionics. Psionics is the ability to tap into the vast untapped powers of the metahuman mind.

Psions are not as multi-faceted as a Mage though. They have a few abilities and can learn a few more by Transcending (more on the later). A Mage or Shaman on the other hand can learn new spells quite easily and gain metamagic techniques by Initiating. Mages pay a price for their versitility though. They are tied into the Gaia Sphere and if they are ever in an environment where the Mana Field drops below a certain point, then they are just like mundanes. A Psion on the other hand can use his abilities anywhere. It doesn't matter what the Mana Field is like, their abilities just work. The downside of this is that a Psion can not get a boost to their abilities by using Foci, "casting" in a High Mana area, or working their abilities in a Lodge.

Paths of Power


Psions group their abilities in what are know as Paths. Each Path is a unique discipline and there is no overlap. The Paths that a Psion can travel are Telepathy, Psychokinesis, Pyrokinesis, and Biomanipulation. These Paths have powers that are similar to Magic, and if someone was not wise to possibility of Psionics then they can be forgiven if they thought a Mage was in the area.

A regular Psion can only use Talents from one Path. A powerful Psion might possibly have Talents from two or more of the Paths. If a Psion is traveling on many Paths he will have a Major Path and Minor Paths. The Major Path is the first Path awakened in the Psion and most of his abilities come from that Path. Minor Paths make up the rest of his abilities and can from any other Path.


Rules

Psionic powers are a 5/10 Positive Quality. For five points a Psion can have powers from one Path only. At ten points a Psion can have abilities from multiple Paths. The only limitation is that a Major Path must be selected and it can never change. At this point the Psion choses his abilities. He gains one power for every point in Psi Rating. Psi Rating is purchases exactly like Magic and Resonance. For example, Freddie the Telepath has a Psi of 4, then he can chose 4 powers from Telepathy.

A Psion must have as many abilities from his Major Path as he does from all of his other Paths combines. For example: a Psion has Biomanipulation as his Major Path and a Psi Rating of 5, then 3 of his powers MUST come from the Biomanipulation Path. The other two abilities can come from the other Paths. This is true whenever a Psion increases his Psi Rating (more on this later on) and selects another Psi Power. In the example above, the Biomanipulator Transcends one level and has a Psi of 6 then 3 powers must come from Biomanipulation and 3 can come from the other Paths.

When a Psion uses his abilties, he has to use his Psionic Strength (Psi Rating) and his knowledge in how to use each of his abilties (Psionic Skills), just like a Mage when he casts a spell (Magic + Sorcery). Psionic Skills are selected just like any other skills, but each Path requires it's own skill. Knowing how to use your Telepathy does nothing for you when you need to use Magic Fingers. Also, a Psion can not default for a Psionic Skill Test. Either the Psion knows how to use a Psionic ability, or he can't use it at all. Finally these skills are unique to each person so there is no possible way to encode a Skillsoft with how to use Psionic Skills, though a Psion can tutor another Psion in how to use his ability.

Psions are as affected by augmentation as Magicians and Technomancers. Their bodies require a certain balance and if that balance is thrown too far out of whack, then they will lose their Ability forever. This means that if a Psi loses 5.01 or more points of Essence, then he loses all Psi ability immediately. Transcending will do nothing if the Psion's body is too full of Metal and/or damaged.


Paths

Each Path has a power associated with that a Psion gets for free. This power is from the Major Path only (no getting two Free Powers). Since a great system for balancing out "cool stuff" with what it costs to toss it is already exists in Shadowrun, I'll be using it for Psions. Drain works exactly like it does for a Magician and each power is exactly like the magic spell (except when noted), it's just that it is Psionic energy and not Mana energy that is powering it. A Psion resists drain using Psi Rating + Willpower. This mechanism mimics a Technomancer and their complex forms.

Telepathy: The Telepath gains the automatic ability of Multi-Tasking. Multi-Tasking works exactly like the Physical Adept power of the same name.
Powers:
Mind Bolt: Same as a Stun Bolt
Detect Enemy
Mind Shield
: This power gives a Psion two extra dice to resist mental spells/psi powers. It is always on and does not cause Drain. This only affects the Psion himself.
Mind Probe
Mindlink
Analyse Truth
Phantasm
Confusion
Influence


Psychokinesis: A Psychokinetic gains Magic Fingers for free. A Psychokinetic is more efficient when using Magic Fingers than a non-Psychokinetic and only suffers F/2 Drain for using Magic Fingers.
Powers:
Physical Barrier
Levitate
Magic Fingers
: Even though it's called Magic Fingers, it is still Psionic in nature.
Psibolt: This is the same as Powerbolt.
Blast
Lock
Bind
Deflection
Poltergeist

Pyrokinesis: a Pyrokinetic gains Psi Rating + 2 levels of Fire Resistance. This works exactly like the Fire Resistance Armor Upgrade.
Powers:
Fireball
Flamethrower
Ignite
Flame wall
Flame Aura
Alter Temperature
: This works by the Pyrokinetic adding or taking away heat.
Thermographic Vision
Shape Fire
Sterilize
: This uses a micro amount of fire to achieve its affects.

Biomanipulation: a Biomanipulator gains an extra two dice to any healing and toxin/disease resistance tests he takes. This is automatic as the Psion instinctively focuses his power inward to keep himself healthy.
Powers:
Heal
Cure Disease
Increase Reflexes
Stabilize
Detox
Hibernate
Antidote
Death Touch
Alleviate Addiction



Transcending

Psions can gain abilities in the same ways that a Mages and Technomancers do. The process is called Transcending. A Psion who undergoes Transcendence achieves a greater understanding of his Psionic potential. Like Technomancers and Mages, when a Psion successfully gets a Grade of Transcendence his natural maximum Psi Rating goes up one point. He also gets the ability to choose either a new power or one of the following Memes :

Instinctive Power: The Psion gains the ability to sustain one power (chosen at the time this Meme is selected) without penalty.

Instant Activation: The Psion has trained so well with a power (chosen at the time this Meme is selected) that he can activate that power as a Free action.

Masking: The Psion can hide his Psionic signature so that a Mage can't Assense his ability.

Centering: This Meta-Psi power works exactly like the Mage ability,

Astral Projection: A Psion must have Mind Shield to be able to get this Meta-Psi ability. If he does not then he can't separate his soul from his body. Telepathic abilities work in the Astral Plane, but the others don't.

For a Psion to undergo Transcendence, he has to undergo a process similar to Mages and Technomancers, but with one important distinction: there are no groups for a Psion to join (as of yet, GM's can change this if they want) to make their Transcendence any easier. Also, there are some Ordeals that Psion's obviously can't do (such as summoning spirits)
martindv
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Jul 19 2008, 03:07 PM) *
There may have been threads out when it was newer. But I just saw firefly, thought it was pretty awsome, and couldn't help noticing that in many respects it was like watching a shadowrun TV series.

Ha!

Before the title sequence rolled it became obvious that the crew is a D&D adventuring team. So that's not much of a surprise.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012