Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Fun, non-fiction reading for Shadowrun players
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Wesley Street
I'm always looking for good reads to inspire my adventure writing. Fiction only takes me so far and in the end I begin to emulate plots which is bad. I'm looking for suggestions for good reads and magazine articles about modern foreign cultures, weird pop life, hyper-consumerism, etc. All that little stuff that gives the universe of Shadowrun its edge and neon glow.

Here are some samples and perhaps some of you could share your personal favorites with the board:

Speed Tribes: Days and Nights with Japan's Next Generation by Karl Taro Greenfeld - This foray into the often violent subcultures of Japan dramatically debunks the Western perception of a seemingly controlled and orderly society.

Disneyland with the Death Penalty - In this Wired article, William Gibson travels to Singapore to see whether that clean dystopia represents the West's techno future.

The Hacker Crackdown: Law and Disorder on the Electronic Frontier by Bruce Sterling - Discusses watershed events in the hacker subculture in the early 1990s. Among the most notable topics are the coverage of Operation Sundevil, the raid on Steve Jackson Games, the trial of "Knight Lightning," and the resulting formation of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
nezumi
The Hacker Crackdown was released by Sterling for free distribution. You can read it here:
http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html

It's well worth your time, however not sure how well it relates to Shadowrun.

I keep picking up books on Shamanism from the library. Unfortunately, I don't know if any easy readers on the topic. Most of them are boring studies. But still, it's good to know.
Wesley Street
Havana Nocturne by TJ English - It's 396 pages but it's large type and is a great read for anyone interested in a Mob-based or Caribbean League run. It's about how the American Mob built Havana into a Disneyland for gangsters and was planning to use it as a financial headquarters... until Castro's puritans came along and kicked them out.

Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser - This one had me riveted. The book lays out how fast food joints have basically built the consolidated, homogenized and rapid urban sprawls that many Americans live in today. Yeah, you can thank "McHugh's" for that Seattle sprawl, chummer. smile.gif
Eugene
Try Misha Glenny's "McMafia: A Journey through the Global Criminal Underworld" for a look at developing organized crime in all parts of the world - drugs, sex, human trafficking, tax evasion, money laundering, etc.
martindv
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 29 2008, 12:31 PM) *
Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser - This one had me riveted. The book lays out how fast food joints have basically built the consolidated, homogenized and rapid urban sprawls that many Americans live in today. Yeah, you can thank "McHugh's" for that Seattle sprawl, chummer. smile.gif


hahahaha

You're kidding, right?

Jesus. Read a real book. The Death and Life of Great American Cities by Jane Jacobs, written almost 50 years ago about the same thing, but by an academic and not some douchebag with an agenda to push.
Wounded Ronin
Because academics are never douchebags, nor do they ever, ever have an agenda.
martindv
Real academics aren't "a little bit of knowledge" self-righteous fucksticks like he is.

Jacobs literally wrote the definitive book on urban planning, and if you actually read it you'd note that it's got zero agenda behind it.

So take your smartass comment and shove it.
VagabondStar
aaaaand it gets weird. I love anonymity, it brings out the best in all of us.


Not really non-fiction, but you can find a free copy of "the hitman's guidebook" online. It was written by a housewife, not a real hitman, but it's fun to read.

A book on intelligence - Intelligence/Counter Intelligence by C.T. White is an independently published book that is basically a "how to" for basic tradecraft.


The book "Junky" by william s. burroughs is a good perspective on drug use and low lifestyle living.

Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (martindv @ Jul 29 2008, 04:57 PM) *
Real academics aren't "a little bit of knowledge" self-righteous fucksticks like he is.

Jacobs literally wrote the definitive book on urban planning, and if you actually read it you'd note that it's got zero agenda behind it.

So take your smartass comment and shove it.


My apologies. Your academic can beat up his academic. I should have known better.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (VagabondStar @ Jul 29 2008, 05:21 PM) *
Not really non-fiction, but you can find a free copy of "the hitman's guidebook" online. It was written by a housewife, not a real hitman, but it's fun to read.


Ha ha, yeah, I remember Paladin Press got in trouble when someone actually tried to do a hit using the methodologies described therein.

But if you read that book you can sort of tell it was written by a housewife. It's got lots of very imaginative but minor details, while at the same time ignoring the most important issues that would come up if you were a hitman, i.e. how to get away with murder in the long term.
Wounded Ronin
As for the original intent of this thread, I must recommend in the strongest terms "The Gift Of Fear" by Gavin De Becker.
Yoan
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 29 2008, 10:27 AM) *
The Hacker Crackdown was released by Sterling for free distribution. You can read it here:
http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html

It's well worth your time, however not sure how well it relates to Shadowrun.

I keep picking up books on Shamanism from the library. Unfortunately, I don't know if any easy readers on the topic. Most of them are boring studies. But still, it's good to know.


Underground Book is newer, & also good if you're into that kinda thing:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~suelette/underground...n/contents.html

[brag]I have very few degrees of separation with at least two of the protagonists. [/brag]
nezumi
And of course, kind Uncle Sam has published a number of their Field Manuals, which are a tremendous aid. They're all over the place. Very basic information on how to fire a rocket launcher or do a field dressing. Not enough to actually know how to do it, but sufficient that, if your players are idiots, you can remind them they're doin' it wrong. Some of the books on urban combat were very interesting and well worth reading.
Wesley Street
Would those be fun reads for those of us who don't know how to, say, field strip an M-16? Of course some people may find tech manuals totally enjoyable! biggrin.gif
Wesley Street
QUOTE (martindv @ Jul 29 2008, 03:08 PM) *
Read a real book.


I pray for the day when the moderators ban you from this board. Your hostility, insults, and holier-than-thou attitude are a real drag.
nezumi
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 30 2008, 09:22 AM) *
Would those be fun reads for those of us who don't know how to, say, field strip an M-16? Of course some people may find tech manuals totally enjoyable! biggrin.gif


I think so. They don't assume a lot of prior knowledge. Some parts are dry, but some are pretty neat. Of course, it assumes you're interested in knowing things like how to assault a building.
Wesley Street
Well, if it's all pretty pictures I would be down with that. wink.gif Seriously, I do remember checking out a library book that had full-page, color, cutaway drawings of hostage rescue operations like the storming of the American embassy in, uh, Tehran... I think. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm drawing a blank...
nezumi
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 30 2008, 11:03 AM) *
Well, if it's all pretty pictures I would be down with that. wink.gif Seriously, I do remember checking out a library book that had full-page, color, cutaway drawings of hostage rescue operations like the storming of the American embassy in, uh, Tehran... I think. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm drawing a blank...


There are some pictures, b&w. It was written for troops, so the writing style is pretty straight-forward, and if you're just looking at pics and reading section headers, you'll still learn a lot (if anything, I found that reading every line was a bit tedious, because sometimes they went into stupid stuff I don't care about.) Again though, they're free, they're online. Go find them, tell me if you like them yourself nyahnyah.gif
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 30 2008, 11:03 AM) *
Well, if it's all pretty pictures I would be down with that. wink.gif Seriously, I do remember checking out a library book that had full-page, color, cutaway drawings of hostage rescue operations like the storming of the American embassy in, uh, Tehran... I think. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm drawing a blank...


You mean that one under Carter that didn't work?
hermit
"Gangs" by Tony Thompson, gives a decent insight into modern organised crime, including money laundring. Written by a journalist, so expect more of a documentation than a scientific study, but it's a goopd read and close enough to reality to be useful to Shadowrun players, for sure.

"Mao" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, a fascinating portrait of one of, if not THE worst of 20th century's butcher dictators. Thoroughly researched, it paints an awesome image of a sociopath villain. Yes, Mao was,a ccording to this book, a sociopath. Just read it. If only half of that is true, we hould all thank the Soviets that they kept him reigned in. Not strictly SR, but a fascinating study of a truely evil person's mind and life.

Yes, the author has a chip on her shoulder with Mao, and that shows. Still, if even half of what is in there is true, he has dethroned Hitler as evil incarnate.

QUOTE
I do remember checking out a library book that had full-page, color, cutaway drawings of hostage rescue operations like the storming of the American embassy in, uh, Tehran... I think.

Uh ... didn't that operation fail disasterously?

QUOTE
And of course, kind Uncle Sam has published a number of their Field Manuals, which are a tremendous aid. They're all over the place.

As in, available online?

Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 30 2008, 01:32 PM) *
"Mao" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday, a fascinating portrait of one of, if not THE worst of 20th century's butcher dictators. Thoroughly researched, it paints an awesome image of a sociopath villain. Yes, Mao was,a ccording to this book, a sociopath. Just read it. If only half of that is true, we hould all thank the Soviets that they kept him reigned in. Not strictly SR, but a fascinating study of a truely evil person's mind and life.


Au sujet de academics, I always viewed Mao as the ultimate academic elevated to a position of power, and not so much a sociopath. I dunno, any book that explicitly paints a historical figure as a sociopath villain doesn't sound very scholarly to me. Even if you were reading about Hitler, would you rather read a book that goes, "mwah hwah hwah Hitler was eville", or would you rather read a book explaining his life, his frustrations, and the mindest of many Germans following the defeat in the first World War?
Wesley Street
Okay, I got my special ops with the Iranians mixed up. Desert One most definitely wasn't the one I was thinking of. D'oh! blush.gif

Here it is... Operation Nimrod: the SAS storming the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. Anyway, there was a book that had a very cool cutaway of the building showing each SAS operator and and what times he hit his mark, etc. etc.
hermit
QUOTE
Au sujet de academics, I always viewed Mao as the ultimate academic elevated to a position of power, and not so much a sociopath. I dunno, any book that explicitly paints a historical figure as a sociopath villain doesn't sound very scholarly to me.

Why not? Saddam was (except he wasn't gay and kept his nephews around, and wasn't *that* fat, he pretty much was dune's Vladimir Harkonnen), Hitler was, Stalin too, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, a couple of Czars, arguably Frederick William II ...

But the book never says he's a sociopath. It just details his actions, and those *are* those of a sociopath. That's my interpretation. Besides, MAo was a grade school teacher, and not much of an academic (not only according to this book).

The book is more aling the lines of the 'good' book on Hitler. Though I feel there's no better book on him than Mein Kampf.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 30 2008, 01:59 PM) *
But the book never says he's a sociopath. It just details his actions, and those *are* those of a sociopath. That's my interpretation. Besides, MAo was a grade school teacher, and not much of an academic (not only according to this book).


But Mao was a thinker, and part of the reason he caused so many problems for the Chinese was his implementation of very abstract and idealistic plans for the future of the nation, i.e. the Great Leap Forward. Many of his initiatives and preoccupations (i.e. perpetual revolution) can be characterized as very academic and philosophical, rather than concrete and practical.

(Mao is one of my favorite historical figures because I think he's intruiging.)
VagabondStar
If we're talking about Mao, then "On Guerrilla Warfare" is a must read. This probably won't help shadowrunners per se... but it is probably useful raw material for any GM.

But to really understand "On Guerrilla Warfare" and why what it proposes goes beyond "common sense" then Von Clauswitz "On War" is also a must read.


And then there's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom", "War in the Shadows", and an innumerable other set of books, but this is more appropriate for the insurgencies thread (blatant plug? Maybe)
nezumi
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 30 2008, 12:32 PM) *
As in, available online?


Yes

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/lib...policy/army/fm/
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6453/doctrinea.html

I'm sure you can google more.

Probably also worth mentioning, I got interested in survivalism through Shadowrun. I regularly check out www.survivalblog.com for interesting stuff. Since runners are naturally independent and self-sufficient, a lot of the stuff is applicable.
WiredWeasel
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 30 2008, 10:59 AM) *
Why not? Saddam was (except he wasn't gay and kept his nephews around, and wasn't *that* fat, he pretty much was dune's Vladimir Harkonnen), Hitler was, Stalin too, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, a couple of Czars, arguably Frederick William II ...

But the book never says he's a sociopath. It just details his actions, and those *are* those of a sociopath. That's my interpretation. Besides, MAo was a grade school teacher, and not much of an academic (not only according to this book).

The book is more aling the lines of the 'good' book on Hitler. Though I feel there's no better book on him than Mein Kampf.


Whoa whoa fellas...remember, as a psychological condition sociopath does not automatically mean "villain" or even really "evil"
Now sociopathy paired with psychopathy? Ok, that's probably a formula for evil.

Sorry was diagnosed with a touch of sociopathy a few years ago, it just means that my idea of a "moral code" is different from the "norm." Makes me all self-conscious we people make it out to mean evil.
Chrysalis
Peter Consterdine
Streetwise, Modern Bodyguard, Travelsafe, Advanced Surveillance, Fit to Fight.

Len Cacutt
Combat: Armed and Unarmed Combat Skills from Official Training Manuals
Survival: Techniques from the Official Training Manuals of the Worlds Elite Military Corps


Then there is a long list of books depending on what you are looking for.

Jackstand
I recommend Welcome to the Machine, by Derrick Jensen and George Draffan, about the cultural impact of the increasingly common surveillance of our lives. While it borders on crazy conspiracy theory, from time to time, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing for Shadowrun.
VagabondStar
Crazy conspiracy theories?

Behold a Pale Horse! rotfl.gif
imperialus
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Jul 30 2008, 10:50 AM) *
Okay, I got my special ops with the Iranians mixed up. Desert One most definitely wasn't the one I was thinking of. D'oh! blush.gif

Here it is... Operation Nimrod: the SAS storming the Iranian embassy in London in 1980. Anyway, there was a book that had a very cool cutaway of the building showing each SAS operator and and what times he hit his mark, etc. etc.


And the SAS website (they have a website whoda thunk it?) has a pretty cool documentary on it

http://www.whodareswins.com/iranian-embassy-siege-sas.html
nezumi
QUOTE (WiredWeasel @ Jul 30 2008, 03:52 PM) *
Sorry was diagnosed with a touch of sociopathy a few years ago, it just means that my idea of a "moral code" is different from the "norm."


If you don't mind my asking, different how?

(And please don't kill me ;P )
imperialus
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 31 2008, 10:38 AM) *
If you don't mind my asking, different how?

(And please don't kill me ;P )


I read a rather interesting book about this a while ago that suggested that sociopathy is actually much more common than we think it is, and on the rise.

IIRC it is basically a sort of 'disconnect' emotionally between you and other people. Everyone experiences this to a certain extent. For example the clerk at the grocery store isn't really a person to most people, she's the thing that bags your groceries and takes your money. You don't want to hear about how her feet hurt from standing for six hours or how she can't pay her bills on time or anything else about her. You want her to put your groceries in your bag, and take your money so you can leave.

Likewise from her point of view you aren't a person either. You're the thing that stands in line, gives her groceries to bag and gives her money. She doesn't want to hear about how you just spent 8 hours chained to a desk, she doesn't care if your major sale just fell through. She just wants you to take your bag and leave so she can move onto the next thing in line.

Most people still form very tight emotional bonds with a few people though, friends, family ect. Sociopaths on the other hand have a much more difficult time forming these bonds. It's tougher for them to 'give a damn' about you or your feelings.

Now the book separated sociopaths into two separate camps. The first is the 'classic' sociopath that you hear about on the nightly news having been found with a stack of bodies in his basement or bilking thousands of shareholders out of their retirement savings. This is an extreme case. Someone who feels such a disconnect from the rest of the world that he simply doesn't give a damn what society says is acceptable and what isn't. This is a relatively small segment of the number of people who are actually sociopaths. These sociopaths will oftentimes mimic the emotional connections they see in others but see no real need to hold true to them when they become inconvenient or start to stand in the way of their pleasure.

The more common variety of sociopath is someone who realizes that emotional connection is part of the grease that keeps society moving. They too will generally mimic emotional connections but they attempt to fulfill the obligations required by those connections. These people will generally be able to function in society quite well within society, oftentimes even excel in areas such as business where emotional decisions can be detrimental to the company. They still tend to look out for number one but realize that compromising their own 'good' is sometimes necessary.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 31 2008, 03:22 PM) *
I read a rather interesting book about this a while ago that suggested that sociopathy is actually much more common than we think it is, and on the rise.

IIRC it is basically a sort of 'disconnect' emotionally between you and other people. Everyone experiences this to a certain extent. For example the clerk at the grocery store isn't really a person to most people, she's the thing that bags your groceries and takes your money. You don't want to hear about how her feet hurt from standing for six hours or how she can't pay her bills on time or anything else about her. You want her to put your groceries in your bag, and take your money so you can leave.

Likewise from her point of view you aren't a person either. You're the thing that stands in line, gives her groceries to bag and gives her money. She doesn't want to hear about how you just spent 8 hours chained to a desk, she doesn't care if your major sale just fell through. She just wants you to take your bag and leave so she can move onto the next thing in line.

Most people still form very tight emotional bonds with a few people though, friends, family ect. Sociopaths on the other hand have a much more difficult time forming these bonds. It's tougher for them to 'give a damn' about you or your feelings.

Now the book separated sociopaths into two separate camps. The first is the 'classic' sociopath that you hear about on the nightly news having been found with a stack of bodies in his basement or bilking thousands of shareholders out of their retirement savings. This is an extreme case. Someone who feels such a disconnect from the rest of the world that he simply doesn't give a damn what society says is acceptable and what isn't. This is a relatively small segment of the number of people who are actually sociopaths. These sociopaths will oftentimes mimic the emotional connections they see in others but see no real need to hold true to them when they become inconvenient or start to stand in the way of their pleasure.

The more common variety of sociopath is someone who realizes that emotional connection is part of the grease that keeps society moving. They too will generally mimic emotional connections but they attempt to fulfill the obligations required by those connections. These people will generally be able to function in society quite well within society, oftentimes even excel in areas such as business where emotional decisions can be detrimental to the company. They still tend to look out for number one but realize that compromising their own 'good' is sometimes necessary.


Are you describing socially adjusted sociopaths, or just typical urban people?
Bearclaw
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 30 2008, 10:32 AM) *
Uh ... didn't that operation fail disasterously?

Yes, due to crappy equipment maintanence.

A very detailed explanation of what happened, by a guy who was there, is contained in:
Inside Delta Force: The Story of America's Elite Counterterrorist Unit - by Eric Haney.
Haney is an ex Delta Force operator and half of the team (with David Mammet) who brings you The Unit. Which is at least an occasional must watch for any wanna-be shadowrunner.

Field Manuals are kinda fun, but the absolute coolest are the Hand Books. I know the Rangers Handbook is available at amazon, and I'm pretty sure you can also get the "Blue Book", which is the grunt handbook. Pretty much everything you need to know to graduate infantry school.
imperialus
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Jul 31 2008, 12:27 PM) *
Are you describing socially adjusted sociopaths, or just typical urban people?


It's a tough line to draw and I wouldn't know where to put it. Socially adjusted sociopaths (great name by the way) are in many ways a lot like typical urban people. According to the author at least, SAS's have a more difficult time than most in developing close relationships with other people and be more willing than most to make callous decisions that prove detrimental to others. One of the big arguments of the book was that our urban/business culture is actually producing a rise in the number of SAS's which also proportionally increases the number of 'crazy' sociopaths.
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Bearclaw @ Jul 31 2008, 02:27 PM) *
Inside Delta Force: The Story of America's Elite Counterterrorist Unit - by Eric Haney.
Haney is an ex Delta Force operator and half of the team (with David Mammet) who brings you The Unit. Which is at least an occasional must watch for any wanna-be shadowrunner.


Haney was actually one of the first Delta operators. I'm not big into "mil-porn" but I did read Inside Delta Force and I enjoyed it. The Unit is loosely based on his book and, on the show, if you examine the sign in front of the team's headquarters, Eric Haney is listed as the unit's command sergeant major. Probably just a tip of the hat or in-joke with the producers.
WiredWeasel
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 31 2008, 10:38 AM) *
If you don't mind my asking, different how?

(And please don't kill me ;P )


imperialus pretty much nailed it.
And is right in that it's more common than ever, I blame it on the information age. Another buddy of mine put it really well. In his opinion we as humans have a certain level of caring for our fellow man, it was easier before global mass media, you had a certain number of people you knew and knew about and cared for their general well being. Nowadays we hear about hundreds of different groups of thousands of different people suffering a multitude of different ways every day, if you gave your heart to truly deeply care for all of them you'd be continually depressed, maybe irrevocably insane.

As for my level of sociopathy, it really mild. It's like imperialus was saying, I have a very hard time giving a s*** about anyone else. I have my close friends and members of my family (interestingly enough, not ALL my family), but honestly the rest of the world be damned. I also have to be very careful as I tend to make decisions based on my personal welfare before that of others. Thank God my girlfriend is very patient and understanding.

Oh and imperialus, I've noticed something about those of us that have socially adapted. We are incredibly loyal to those we DO care about. It's kinda like they've become a part of us.

I guess that means the last thing you'd wanna do is mess with a sociopath's friends, if he/she has them.
Wesley Street
Want to know what the average American's donor fatigue level is? That point when an individual stops truly caring about the suffering of others? Two. Two people. Any more than that and it becomes just a number, something that we can't emotionally comprehend. Not that we want to cause harm to others but we can't process the suffering... unless we're living in it.

The 21st century is going to be an interesting place.
Wounded Ronin
This all sounds a little overhyped to me and based on an idyllic idea of the past where we all lived in Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. People can always choose to work for a nonprofit or the government and simultaneously help their fellow man while sticking it to the man.
Wesley Street
I don't think the past was ever idyllic. It's my job to support non-profit organizations in their electronic marketing and fund raising. There are always exceptions but while NPOs do genuinely help people and their motivation to do so is strong, they're typically run like a business with daily meetings over budgets, hassles with subcontractors, etc. etc. The larger non-profit organizations feel like corporations when you walk into their headquarters. Day-to-day, those employees aren't thinking about how empathetic they are to those who are suffering. They're worried about hitting their goals and keeping their jobs. And pulling qualified employees into the NP sector over the private sector is a real challenge. I don't mean to sound like a pessimist but there's only so much TRUE empathy a human being is capable of feeling before it becomes a statistic. And getting people to donate money, even to a cause, they believe in, is hard work!
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Aug 1 2008, 03:13 PM) *
I don't think the past was ever idyllic. It's my job to support non-profit organizations in their electronic marketing and fund raising. There are always exceptions but while NPOs do genuinely help people and their motivation to do so is strong, they're typically run like a business with daily meetings over budgets, hassles with subcontractors, etc. etc. The larger non-profit organizations feel like corporations when you walk into their headquarters. Day-to-day, those employees aren't thinking about how empathetic they are to those who are suffering. They're worried about hitting their goals and keeping their jobs. And pulling qualified employees into the NP sector over the private sector is a real challenge. I don't mean to sound like a pessimist but there's only so much TRUE empathy a human being is capable of feeling before it becomes a statistic. And getting people to donate money, even to a cause, they believe in, is hard work!


But if you want to get your hands dirty, you can do it still. Be a social worker. Join the Peace Corps. Go volunteer at Momma Theresa's for a while. I feel that it would be very beneficial to the United States if more Americans spent a year or two living in a developing country in a local community setting and not in an expat cluster. And personally, I'd rather spend time around individuals infected with leprosy or tuberculosis than around certain corporate types, and I've done it, so this isn't just an idle boast.

Nowadays in the US whatever job you take is going to be really demanding. It's going to take almost everything out of you. Since what you do every day slowly affects who you are, I feel like in a sense you give your soul to your job. And when you're about to die, you might look back on what you've done over the course of your life. Given that, how could any job in a for-profit ever be worth it, given the personal sacrifice involved? Who wants to sacrifice their health and grow old so that Wal Mart can open more branches, or so that there will be Hannah Montana musical toothbrushes, or so that Disney can go and urinate on another classic work of literature? I think it's important to think long and hard about the implications of what one's work will be, because someday you're going to die and you'll have given so much of yourself to the job. The terrifying question on the brink of death or eternity or whatever you think is or is not there would be if all that struggle was worth it, or some kind of hideous mockery of yourself perpetrated on you by consumer culture.

EDIT: When I say "you" I don't mean you personally, but I mean people in general. This certainly isn't a dig or anything like that, but rather a statement of philosophical principle, I guess.
Jackstand
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Aug 2 2008, 12:01 AM) *
Nowadays in the US whatever job you take is going to be really demanding. It's going to take almost everything out of you. Since what you do every day slowly affects who you are, I feel like in a sense you give your soul to your job. And when you're about to die, you might look back on what you've done over the course of your life. Given that, how could any job in a for-profit ever be worth it, given the personal sacrifice involved? Who wants to sacrifice their health and grow old so that Wal Mart can open more branches, or so that there will be Hannah Montana musical toothbrushes, or so that Disney can go and urinate on another classic work of literature? I think it's important to think long and hard about the implications of what one's work will be, because someday you're going to die and you'll have given so much of yourself to the job. The terrifying question on the brink of death or eternity or whatever you think is or is not there would be if all that struggle was worth it, or some kind of hideous mockery of yourself perpetrated on you by consumer culture.


While I agree with you that the work, in and of itself, might not really be worth it, the advancement of the company isn't the goal for which most people in those corporate jobs are working. Well, I mean, their work revolves around that, certainly, but their working to support themselves and their families. A parent can spend his or her life in a job that's slowly eating away at them so that their child might not have to. Sure, maybe all that you accomplished in your work was the promotion of Disney's new animated Les Miserables, but if that allowed your child to live a happier life, it just might be worth it.
nezumi
This is why I work for the government, so when I die, I'll be happy to know I spent it sleeping.
Lonewulf
(Just want to say, first post outside of the gamer finder part of the forums... hope I rolled well on my Etiquette (Computer) roll)

QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 29 2008, 05:27 PM) *
The Hacker Crackdown was released by Sterling for free distribution. You can read it here:
http://www.mit.edu/hacker/hacker.html

It's well worth your time, however not sure how well it relates to Shadowrun.
A document talking about the society of hackers and the people that want to track them down? Seems like SOMETHING can be found there.

Just read through Part 1, and I'll have to say, that was very interesting and even informative. I'll enjoy reading it further. I love how a single little flaw in a single line in code in a patch was able to affect millions of telephone calls...

QUOTE
I keep picking up books on Shamanism from the library. Unfortunately, I don't know if any easy readers on the topic. Most of them are boring studies. But still, it's good to know.
Actually, I've been looking up a similar thing, and it doesn't bore me because I actually find it interesting. I've been looking up stuff on the "Left Hand Path" and specifically the group Dragon Rouge, for a Black Magic kind of path and character. The idea of striving for Apotheosis is appealing to me, especially for a character in a world where magic actually works, and the astral planes have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to exist.

It also leads into other beliefs and rituals, from the history of Yoga and Tantric exercises, as well as Christian/Catholic beliefs, that it gets fairly informative in the long run. At least, from what I see so far; I haven't actually looked too deeply into it yet, pretty much just started the exercise.

I also find mythology a good source for names. Just greek mythology can lead into a whole slew of greek-style names from history/mythology, and sometimes having a good street name is worth it. Plus, mythology can be quite interesting in and of itself, and the visuals of a mythological scene could always make a good Matrix run, for those that rely strongly on the visuals of Matrix maps...
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (nezumi @ Aug 2 2008, 11:18 AM) *
This is why I work for the government, so when I die, I'll be happy to know I spent it sleeping.


Well, the other way it goes is that if a person has an "easy" job, i.e. one that leaves them with time and resources to develop hobbies and interests and do things of personal interest, IMO that would still be preferable to giving everything to a "pointless" job that does not. Because given the extra free time and mental resources a person then has the chance to grow and develop in a very deliberate personally-directed manner.
VagabondStar
I don't think anyone's written a book yet... but the attempted coup of Equitorial Guinea by Simon Mann and a bunch of mercenaries in 2003(ish?) is very Shadowrun-esque.
Synner667
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jul 30 2008, 02:24 PM) *
And of course, kind Uncle Sam has published a number of their Field Manuals, which are a tremendous aid. They're all over the place. Very basic information on how to fire a rocket launcher or do a field dressing. Not enough to actually know how to do it, but sufficient that, if your players are idiots, you can remind them they're doin' it wrong. Some of the books on urban combat were very interesting and well worth reading.

Just be careful what you download, or even look at [probably]...
...Some of those manuals can be taken as "training manuals for terrorists" and have the guys in black come knockin', even though they are publically available from official sources.
Synner667
QUOTE (WiredWeasel @ Jul 31 2008, 11:19 PM) *
imperialus pretty much nailed it.
And is right in that it's more common than ever, I blame it on the information age. Another buddy of mine put it really well. In his opinion we as humans have a certain level of caring for our fellow man, it was easier before global mass media, you had a certain number of people you knew and knew about and cared for their general well being. Nowadays we hear about hundreds of different groups of thousands of different people suffering a multitude of different ways every day, if you gave your heart to truly deeply care for all of them you'd be continually depressed, maybe irrevocably insane.

As for my level of sociopathy, it really mild. It's like imperialus was saying, I have a very hard time giving a s*** about anyone else. I have my close friends and members of my family (interestingly enough, not ALL my family), but honestly the rest of the world be damned. I also have to be very careful as I tend to make decisions based on my personal welfare before that of others. Thank God my girlfriend is very patient and understanding.

Oh and imperialus, I've noticed something about those of us that have socially adapted. We are incredibly loyal to those we DO care about. It's kinda like they've become a part of us.

I guess that means the last thing you'd wanna do is mess with a sociopath's friends, if he/she has them.

Very interesting.

That level of tribalism and social connectivity ties nicely to the studies about the maximum size of companies and villages [somewhere between 500-1000, I think]...
...Beyond which social interaction starts to breakdown, and groups start running into trouble.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012