All this Rifts talk is giving me the sudden (irrational) urge to dig my Palladium books out of storage.

-paws

Now I know what to blame...

Yep.

-paws
PS Kingboy: I'll take that as a not interested, then?

Everyone's already mentioned the other games I played from that era, so I'll only list two that I remember, but never got to play:

Marvel Super Heroes (The FASERIP version)

and

Bunnies and Burrows.

...

(What?)

I have that sitting on my bookshelf, actually.

A buddy of mine and I had a huge blast with that back in middle school. There was a book they out for it called Ultimate Book of of Powers (something like that) that took the whole random roll character thing to a new level of silliness.



Okay, now there's a game I've never player or owned.

-paws

I got a copy of B&B from Ken at a con

Carl

I may have missed this but has anyone ever here ever played Spycraft 1st Ed.? Is it any good? Recommend or no?

We had a lot of fun with Robotech and Marvel Superhero's over the years.
Rifts was ok, but putting a character together took forever( that and I like to play low key characters likeO.C.C. scouts and the rest of the crew was into full cyborgs and glitterboy armor.)
I really liked twilight 2000. if I remember right it had a good combat system and very realistic.( to the point where we spent half the game brewing fuel for the vehicles.)
I played one game of Runequest.( Fell through a ceiling, broke my legs, crawled to a ballista to shoot some monkey thing, missed, died. )

Old Shadowrun, specifically Shadowrun II and all of the adventure modules they published. Dragonlance "Dragons of Autumn Twilight" D&D 2nd edition, Legend of the Five Rings 1st Edition, and Vampire the Masquerade and their well written City Sourcebooks line which includes "DC by Night" "Chicago by Night", "New Orleans by Night."

Back in 7th grade - 9th grade a large group of kids and I ran paper and pencil Vampire the Masquerade and we split the GM duties amongst three people, each one running their own city utilizing the city sourcebooks. Good times good times.

Funny you should mention it like that... hehe, PLAYED it... yeah, like a few others, I bought a bunch of it thinking, "Hey, d20, can't be hard to get players for this..." so I've never played it. =) I liked reading it, it was fun, but it suffers from the usual d20 stuff... class, levels, prestige classes, etc. Not bad, really, if you like that style of play. I think it would have been fun, but the group I was in at the time wasn't good for it, and the group that is would rather play Hero. =)

I'm surprised no one as mentioned 7th Sea, back before the d20 version came out.

Rifts, and I was actually looking back at 3rd edition rather nostalgically. I miss cyberdecks, and the days when a wireless relay was fancy.

Funny you should mention that one. I was just exposed to 7th Sea two or three weeks ago (I'd never player or picked up a copy of the books, even) and now I'm rabidly trying to find more material for it - I've been busy reading everything I can find.

The game system is quirky... it seems like its trying to be "rules lite," but doesn't, IMO, have a sufficiently unified game mechanic to pull it off. Still, its pretty simple compared to some other systems. I just had to dig into it more than I would have expected to pick it up.

-paws

The old D&D wasnot to be taken serious, also it have no DM manual so the DM was able to change rules freely and add rules freely. Star Ace and Time Master roleplaying games where greast games. Traveler,Space Master and Space Opera where great science fiction game. Star Trek from FASA was also good. Common sence needed to be use in gamering. Let say in Traveler than 20 megraton H-bomb goes off 3 feet from you there is no need to have than rule system say you are dead. I believe the newer generation are ruin by video game.

I have once the GameScience version of the Empire of the Petral Thones but some christian threw it away. It have spell which most game back then or today have like one Goddress of Sexual Lust have afew spell that make than man too old to get it up get it up againt, spell to help than woman get organize. It have spells to to potect books,scolls and other way of writeing from harm and ageing.
I have C&S which is than great fansy game.

DnD 3E and 3.5E: They could have used a LOT of improvements, but they were actually pretty good. You could end up pulling campaigns you'd never dream of with some systems.

Call of Cthulhu: The Chaosium original is still the horror game.

Call of Cthulhu d20: It wasn't bad, but the fan-made Resident Evil game for its rules was actually excellent. The attempt to convert that system to the Chaosium one failed badly to capture the same feel.

heh, maybe if one could claim that video games foster a drive to abuse quirks in the logic of things.

to me it seems to be just a echo of everyday life, where people can get millions payed out by claiming they where not warned that coffee could be hot...

Well, I found old 2300AD manuals for sale through Amazon retailers, dumped a little over $100, and I now have every piece published for that game system. I went through the rules this weekend and I was surprised at how easy they were to grasp. The game is chart driven, especially in char gen and combat, but it's also not a game that fixates on combat and min/maxing. Yes, there's a system for man-to-man, vehicle and starship combat (including a separate hex-based table top game which I'll probably buy later) but it's obviously not the focus, unlike D&D or Shadowrun. 2300AD pulls its pages from movies like 2001 or books like CJ Cherryh's Merchanter-Alliance Universe. Hard science-fiction, unlike space fantasy or space opera, places equal importance on exploration, diplomacy and general problem solving as it does trigger pulling. In one of the side bars it even states "this is a 'role-playing game' not a 'roll-playing game.'" So if a player says, "I walk up to the guard and shoot him in the head" and if there are no extenuating circumstances, he accomplishes it. I like that. I also like that it's expansive enough that a player could be a farmer on a backwater colony, a corporate troubleshooter, or a starship captain (or one of a fleet of captains!).

And, like its predecessor Traveller, it's one of those games where you can die during character generation. God, I'm excited to play this.

Interesting. I've bought all the Spycraft 2.0 materials and PDFs as well as some of version 1 adventures and there's a distinct vibe of interest in playing the World on Fire setting in my game group. One guy already rolled up a character and we haven't started yet! I can understand how a class based system would turn people off as it limits freedom of choice. But I think, sometimes, it's good to impose artificial limitations, especially if you play in a group where the players want to do a little of everything and you end up with a very "mayonnaise" team, rather than a group of specialists. One of my quirks as a player is that I simply MUST play the opposite role of the majority of the team. I can't stand being yet another hired gun/sword.

In my case, that's because I'm still playing 7th Sea.

We never have the mayo problem... the thing about freedom is that people tend to do all sorts of things when they don't feel like they have to do something conventional. I get tired of stuff like, "oh, dang, we need a cleric or we'll suck" because all these roles are built in. Most of the time, with a more open system, people tend to specialize and choose certain areas they're good in, and they're not limited by some odd rule that says if they can fight, they can't be smart or know anything else. So instead of the typical Hired Gun, Name X, you get Maximillian, the Firepower Guru that's a gunsmith that is constantly making new and interesting equipment, with an odd penchant for using the Tarot to try and foresee his future that is also quite the scholar on the mythical, etc. And he has the basic essential skills like first aid and other basics that make sense. He's not the medic, but he'll do in a pinch.

I'm not against class systems. Like you say, the artificial limitation is sometimes entertaining... but as a whole, I like more open systems because it lets people play what they want to play rather than HAVE to play what you're told is needed.

*shrug* Just my 2 cents, no more... not particularly articulate tonight.

I mostly agree. The one thing I'd like to add is that, using your example, if an adventure requires a cleric and no one wants to play one the DM shouldn't be running that adventure. Same with magic-based Shadowrun missions where every player wants to play a street samurai. The DM/GM needs to be flexible enough to provide an appropriate challenge to his players, not ram-rod the players into the game he wants to play.

I agree with you as well... but some of that depends on the game. Some require more of that "required classes/skills" than others just from the perspective of how the game is built to work. I have a SR game right now that has no magic users, so I don't impede them with a lot of magic stuff or shaft them on a regular basis because they don't have one. Then again, we're not exactly playing the usual Mr. Johnson hands out your missions game, either. Then again, as I hear it, they're just all happy to be able to play Shadowrun instead of the usual d20 stuff. =)

...the first RPG I played was not D&D. It was a sort of homegrown small press system titled Beasts Men and Gods. One of the games creators was a college buddy of mine. This game had lots ofnice features like armour components, a spell point system which allowed mages and priests to recharge their mana by resting rather than casting that one magic missile spell and being useless the rest of the day. Mages could even wear armour as it just affected their casting success and there were no limits on what weapons one could or could not use as long as you had the strength and agility to wield them. Spell failure could be quite interesting as well and all mages were subject to it.

There was also more parity in hit points between the different classes (pretty much every character started with the same at first level). There was also a stun rating which is where one first took "damage" before going into avtual hits so again characters at low levels had more survivability which made the game more interesting. The chargen system was well thought out in that related attributes used a "control die" and then you rolled 2D6 adding the total to the control die number.

Of course there was no marketing machine like TSR had so the game only had a local appeal where I lived. I still have a copy of my rulebook.

All sounds like things that have been incorporated over the years but must have been quite the "wow" at the time, I bet. Always cool to hear stuff like that. Too bad it didn't go anywhere, it sounds like it could have been quite the game for the era.

I can see, in terms of game balance, why most high-fantasy games prohibit mages from wearing armor. But from a "real world" standpoint it strikes me as being really silly. Though I do think that clerics should only be allowed to use blunt, non-edged weapons. Because real men of God can crack skulls but not draw blood.

It's too bad Beasts, Men and Gods never took off. It sounds like it had some real thought put into it.

I remember that book. It took me almost 6 months to track it down back in my younger days. Found it in a small second hand bookstore.

They kept making things for Marvel's system up to the late '90s, if I'm not mistaken.

..well the balancing factor was the more armour a mage wore, the higher the percentage for spell failure. And this didn't jsut mean the spell didn't work. There was a table of different (and some quite unpleasant) effects that could befall the casting mage. The game also had a critical hit/miss table and that was determined on how far from the base hit value needed (+ or -).

Another nice feature was that any spellcaster could create a temporary, charged, or permanent magic item. The mechanic was well thought out in that for each type you needed to know the specific spell for so many levels (and had to successfully cast it into the item). There was none of that nutty memorising spells each day. Spells had to be targeted, so a mage generally had a decent "missile bonus" but a pretty mediocre "attack bonus" (melee) If one so chose to, he could increase his melee attack percentage, of course at the expense of experience used for improving magical abilities.

All success tests were d100 rolls and damage was based on d6s (for example a greatsword did 3D6 damage + STR damage bonus).

Enchantments to weapons added 5% per level and +1 to damage. Any kind of spell could be imbued into a weapon as a secondary effect provided it made sense. For example I had a preistess who could charge her blade with a sunbolt spell that came in very handy against undead.

One cool class of magic the game had was a hybrid theif-illusionist called the Shadowmage the spells were very subtle but when used correctly could lead to some very interesting outcomes.

This was the only game in which actually enjoyed playing spellcasters as the system was simple yet incredibly colourful and they were not so hamstrung at lower levels.

sounds a bit like palladium fantasy. In that game a mage could wear armour, but the more metal armor the mage wore the harder it was to channel magical energies. kind of like wearing tin foil to bloke EMP or ECM.
As i understand it, it works that way with rolemaster classic as well. except here it is more about the mage being in contact with the world around you and it is hard to do that if your wrapped up in a full suit of metal. You can still do it, but you have a high chance of spell failure.

heh, rolemaster. the game that penalized a magican for carrying around anything more then a blanket and some food.

still, those critical hit tables are a colorful read. welded to the inside of a metal armor if hit by a max crit lightning attack, anyone?

I think the way my friend runs the game and what rules he changed or leaves out fixed all of the things that people joke about when it comes to rolemaster. For instance, i think he allows from magicians to wear leather jerkens since they are basically thick leather vests. I just wish the difficulty in learning a spell list was easier.

i pulled out the basics box i have here, and it seems my recall is as bad as its old.

clothing and armor is not counted when it comes to calculating carried items, altho they present their own mods on a different part of the table.

also, the safe limits where a bit higher then i recalled. one should be able to carry around a kid or small animal with little impact.

They recently put out a set of new books that my friend was weiry to get, but was happy about when he did get them and looked through them. It seemed they fix some of the problems with the classic system and the layout is more clear. The rules, for example, of how much weight a person can carry and how far you can move are a lot more concrete and understandable from what they were once upon a time.
But like i said he did change a few rules here and there and does not use every rule every time we do something. Like how much we are carrying only comes into play when it counts; like climbing a cliff side or something.

I have a *VERY* extensive collection of RPGs, both modern and classic. One of my fav old gems is Runequest 3rd edition. I have every book for it (and 2nd edition which is compatable with only minor work) and have run several extensive campagns. The game was massively ahead of its time, with its core system (called Basic Role-Playing) still heavily in use today in such games as Stormbringer, World of Wonder, Call of Cthulhu, Superworld, Ringworld, Elfquest, Hawkmoon, Elric!, Delta Green and Nephilim. Pendragon uses a modified version of BRP.

Another is Ars Magica, which I have several 2nd edition, the 3rd edition core book (the one made by White Wolf, which everyone hated), plus every book for 4th and 5th edition. This game has to have the *BEST* magic system of any RPG I have ever seen. Plus it uses a Troupe style running system that lets all the players run games, have several characters (1 Magus, 1 Companion, and lots of Grogs), and give input. It even makes the characters Covenant (their home) into a sort of jointly controlled character that grows and develops with time. Actually designing the groups Covenant in the pre-play session greatly effects how the game will feel.

Also have Traveller (you can die in character generation!), several editions of Call of Cthulhu, Hero system, Paranoia, etc. Got lots of really only games from 20+ years ago that only had the main book come out for.

Unfortunately when I was at Uni I had to sell a lot of my old RPGs for survival purposes. Still I have managed to pick up a few of them since on ebay and have been loving re-reading them. The ones that particularly still grab my attention are:

Judge Dredd - A lovely Games Workshop boxed set that really encompasses the feel of the world and with a system that still holds up pretty well today. I'm thinking of converting it over to WFRP 2 or Dark Heresy to play with in the modern age. Wish I still had a copy of the companion with the Judge Exorcists or the Shuggy Hall Brawl adventure from White Dwarf.

Price of Freedom - Very dated in the setting and the rules are more wargamey than I would like, but still I love it. The cloest thing I have ever seen to Red Dawn the RPG. Go Wolverines!

Top Secret SI - Love it to pieces. One of the RPGs I cut my teeth on. Managed to get the original set along with FREElancers and FREEamerica. While I wouldn't ude the system I have approached my RPG group about playing in the FREE(x) world using Wild Talents.

Honourable mentions go to Chill (I so want the next edition to come out), Masterbook (My go to generic system and with sourcebooks for Necroscope, Indiana Jones and Species), Golden Heroes (Fun pulpy supers) and Dragon Warriors (Still waiting for my NSFLGS to get in the rereleased stuff for that).

Dude. Chill. WOW. That's a blast from the past indeed.

I haven't thought of that game since like, 1989 or 1990...

Chill... damn, what was the last version of that? I'll have to go dig through my boxes of really old games when I get home.

I loved Alternity. I still claim it had quite possibly the best mechanics system ever. A d20 +/- any other die (depending on difficulty).
I miss 'In Nomine' a lot too. Mind you these both pale in comparison to how much I miss the ADnD version of Planescape. I keep saying it was just so far removed from normal that it had to be its own game...

I read some Alternity material once - quite good, indeed. I'd love to see the Star*Drive campaign setting resurrected somehow (Dark Matter has been re-published as a d20 Modern setting).

I've got every book of that game ever published in German - though we got the translation from the French original, so our In Nomine Satanis is still a gory satirical over-the-top "Superheroes from Hell" (or Heaven) fun-RPG, not that serious dark fantasy stuff SJG made from the license...

Alternity was the latest scifi from TSR [at the time], and suffered as part of the general change that SR went through - when they trimmed all the various campaigns to get to what we have today.

I loved Planescape, though I converted the material for use with other RPGs...
...It was like medieval cyberpunk, and I think Eberron has some of its spirit and 'feel'.

Maybe someone will do Planescape v2.0 and run it as a fan-based product [even though it's still owned by WotC], as they did with Dark Sun [which is another great AD&D conversion/campaign].

If I remem correctly, the original creators of Judge Dredd RPG redid it and tried to get it published, but couldn't.

Golden Heroes has been redone and republished as Squadron UK.

i think star*drive showed up in d20 future, but was really lacking in detail...

I know of another game like that.
The Late Late Late Night Horror Show by Stellar Games out of Toledo, OH Game even featured a "Hostess" that looked like Bride of Frankenstien but talked like Elvira.
Book and Company are long OOP.

BTW that Justifiers game meantioned a few pages back? They were sued by Stellar Games. Seams thier game "Expendables" had the same planet exploration setting. Good luck finding any old booklets. Good luck finding either.

Lucky for me my gaming group consists of quite a few old time gamers. One was a manager of a hobby shop so he has lots of old RPGs. And my father and I were collectors from way back. So every few months/years we vote on what next game we play. Each player that wants to submits a written summary of the game he/she wants to run and we vote. Funny there are no games submitted that are newer than 8 years old... Fun but makes finding that old sourcebook you had lost or never gotten a pain now.

Other games I have that I reread every once in a while;
Legend of the Five Rings
7th Sea (shame the GM ended that game after a short two year run...but that lead to me running SR3)
BubbleGumCrisis (Fuzion system -too bad I can't find that website that converts BBC into SR-)

Old games I always wanted to RP
GURPS
Ironclaw (Sanquine Productions)
Big Eyes Little Mouth RPG

im not sure gurps or BESM classify as old

and ironclaw can still be ordered directly from sanquine...

Came out shortly after highschool for me. While I'd like to think that it's not old, BESM -like me- is getting old.

Just finished reading a Traveller: The New Era novel ["To Dream of Chaos"] and it's really got me wanting to have a look at my old copy of the rulebook, and how GDW handled a civilisation destroying Virus...
...And then see what I can do with that information.

I vaguely recall a t-shirt at a Gencon, years ago:

"I survived Traveller chargen!"

Bond...James Bond.

Or more precisely, James Bond 007 RPG by Victory Hill Games. Great system, holds up very well even today. One of the coolest gaming moments was when everyone in our group showed up in Tux's and the ladies showed up in formal gowns and we played all night to the wee hours of dawn.

D&D of course, Rolemaster, Marvel, Fasa Star Trek, Pendragon, Twilight 2000, MechWarrior.