I've been enjoying RPGs as a Player and a Ref for 20+ years and I've been involved with many RPGs.

I've still got almost all the RPGs I've bought over the years [and bizarrely, my house has much less room than I remember it to have - connected ??]...
...And sometimes I'll flick one open and have a read.

And often find myself engrossed in RPG books from anything upto 20 years ago...
...Sometimes reading rules and thinking of new ways to apply those rules in a different way, and sometimes just remembering a time when those rules or sourcebook were used.

Anyone else re-visit old rules and/or sourcebooks and using them again ??
Do they seem archaic, or fresh and usable ??
Do you think differently about them, than you did in the past ??

Just thought I'd ask...

I've found old RPGs make you shake your head at how stupid some parts are or you're amazed why that idea never caught on.

I'm a big nostalgia junkie. I love re-reading old Dragon magazines, not necessarily for game info, but just for the sheer pleasure of it. The old AD&D stuff has that certain something which a lot of newer RPGs seem to lack, at least from my point of view. But I suppose every generation feels that way, whether it be about RPGs, movies, music, etc. I was toying around with the idea of playing old AD&D modules using Basic rules. However, I am not at all familiar with Basic D&D, so I don't know how feasable this would be. I got the idea after speaking with a bunch of old gamers; they raved about how Basic had the terrific fantasy "feel" of Advanced, but without all the detritus (as they put it).

i have looked at some of the older rpg and said to myself, " why is this not around anymore"?

For instance, Space: 1889 by GDW. One of the better Steampunk games out there (even beating the Gurps steampunk source book) and it was created back in the early years of role playing. (late 70's early 80's).
Another game i always wanted to try was the one that got Raymond E fiest Started writing in the world of Midkemia; By midkemia press.

Space: 1889 is still in print with Heliograph, Inc. I know a lot of there books are just recompilations of original GDW books, but I'm under the impression that they're also producing new material.

A few of my old favorites, that I miss are Torg (which is tied in with the whole WEG mess), Dark Conspiracy (which has been rumored to have a revised edition in progress for years), and Chill (also rumored to have a revision in the works for years).

To me, it's almost equally amazing which games have survived for 15+ years.

Yah...
...Chill and Dark Conspiracy are both due "sometime soon".

Torg has been repackaged as Torg v1.5...
...With Torg v2.0 late in its delivery.

Looking at them, I do find it interesting that they were ahead of their time, and suffered for it [same with Space:1889].

Tho, with GDW dying as a company, not much could have been done.

I imagine the licences are owned, with people waiting for the right time to try and re-publish material...
...And I guess they could use lulu.com for printing and distribution [I think RedBrick, the people with EarthDawn, do it this way].

Hey, Synner,

It's good to see some other old-timers around here! (I've been a gamer and ref for about 27 years now.)

I know what you mean about digging through your old games. I've gotten rid of some of mine in recent years, but it's amazing how long I held on to them. And there are some I just can't part with.

My AD&D books just make me chuckle. I can't believe I once thought that was the greatest game ever known to mankind. A few years ago a friend of mine tried running a game using those old rules. I found that AD&D is, for me, kind of like tic-tac-toe--it's fun when you're young and it's brand new, but after moving on to more sophisticated games, why go back to it?

The biggest laugh I get out of the AD&D books is that there's a random table for EVERYTHING. It's interesting to see how rulebooks years ago used to hold the ref's hand constantly, whereas today there are fewer provisions for random events/items/monsters/treasure.

Still, I can't help but feel a streak of nostalgia as I dust off those old games. (I'm planning to run a game of Twilight: 2000 in the summer of 2010 for all of my old gaming buddies.)

Great topic, by the way!

Paul

http://www.youtube.com/user/pugknowspro


This is kind of neat. most of the reviews are of newer games - but there are some reissued and rehashed games on there, too.

mmmm... I need to get a group to do Amber again. I miss the Amber days of college

Skyrealms of Jorune. A wonderfully atmospheric, incredibly detailed, imaginative, lovely game with a ruleset that could politely be described as "horribly schizophrenic."

On the plus side, it's really easy to convert to the Earthdawn system!

Games I started with (I had played RPGs before but the mid 90s was when it became a hobby)

AD&D 2nd Edition, Traveller: The New Era, Dark Conspiracy, Shadowrun 2e, and GURPS 2e

later in college I would pick up Dark Ages Vampire, SLA Industries, Deadlands and D&D 3.0

I still fondly remember the first RPG I ever played. It was a "choose-your-own-path" book based on Forgotten Realms. It had two bookmarks (character sheets), an interesting story (to a 14 years old anyway) and the corner of the pages had a picture of a d12. (You "rolled" the die by flipping through the pages.) It got me started in RPGs.

My favorite old game was probably AD&D since we played with a huge group in college.

And then my friends introduced me to the awesome that was SR2.

I was digging through my old gaming books last night (looking for a curiously MIA M&M sourcebook) and I came across Beyond The Supernatural by Palladium. BTS was a modern day occult horror RPG. Interestingly, its the same world that Rifts Earth would become. One of the first RPGs I ever bought too. I didn't get to GM it very often, but I had a ball making characters and brainstorming adventures. I even found some of my old characters tucked in the book. Terrible system. Fun setting.

-paws

I'm trying to remember an old Palladium (I think) game I had. It was only one book, but the setting was King Arthur's Camelot. I remember reading through it and loving it, but misplaced it after a few weeks and could never find it or a copy to re-purchase...

It was a fairly thick book, too, 350+ pages, I think. Anybody know it?

Pendragon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendragon_(role-playing_game)
Thats the only king Arthur setting I know of

palladium never did a camelot setting other than a england book (which has camelot in it) for rifts as far as i know.

Yup, that's it, Pendragon. Thanks!

I have been told of a game that was called B Movie? at least that is what the person who told about it said the name of the game was.

In the game you are actors in a movie and you play out the sceens if at anytime you need time to change, fix, or think things out you call for a film break.

Anyone know of this game be by the name B Movie or another name?

Doesn't that summarize the entire Palladium line?

Your looking for this http://www.playbmovie.com/

I think...

Paranoia 2nd edition was made of pure win. I don't know about 1st edition or the new XP edition but they should good too.

The other edition has been declared an "unproduct" and should be avoided unless you can't find a different edition.

I remember a few:

Car Wars
Ardhuin
Top Secret
Every D&D version
Boot Hill
Gamma World
MechWarrior
Paranoia
Traveler
Star Frontiers
Champions
Every Shadowrun version
Twilight:2000
Cyberpunk
Dangerous Journeys
Warhammer
HarnMaster
L5R
Dark Sun

I played D&D the most, and enjoyed Shadowrun the best.

Yeah, more or less.

-paws

Yes, Palladium's system can be daunting, but it's worth it.

I've played a couple games of Car Wars, using (of course) HotWheels or Matchbox cards. Very Cool.
I've played ONE game of Paranoia. REally didin't care for it.
Tried to get into Twilight:2000, it just didn't click.
I still have fond memories of playing a couple of Claydonia games.
I had some old TORG books a while back, but I traded them when the line ended originally.

I'm with Suppedo. AD&D was fine staring out, but I get the most enjoyment out of Shadowrun.

I was never big on the Palladium system other than Ninjas & Superspies (a must have if you love martial arts). Thinking back on my favorite old games, I can see that I really leaned on modern/sci-fi games.

My favorites included Cyberpunk 2020, Millennium's End (by Charles Ryan, modern day with most realistic combat simulator I have ever seen), Battlelords of the 23rd Century (only sci-fi game I ever played that had NO space combat rules), the original Traveller (though I have been looking at Mongoose's version lately), Runequest (original version) and all versions of D&D since the Basic Red Box except 4E.

Funny side story on Millennium's End. Recently, my car was broken into and my laptop and the bag it was in was stolen. A few hours later, the local sherriff's department called to say that he had located my stuff. But he needed to talk to me about one of the items found within the bag. Inside were all of my shadowrun books, and a folder with a set of documents called BlackEagle/BlackEagle Employee Field Guide (or soemthing close to that) and it contained modern day military techniques and tactics, basically stuff that spec ops teaches now. The deputy, a former Ranger and current member of the local SWAT unit wanted to know why a civilian would have a need for such information.

I laughed as soon as he told me the title and knew where he was going with his questioning, so I explained it was from a rpg that had gone out of business in 2000, but the techniques worked with any modern style rpg. He was still not understanding (I think the RPG part had him confused), so I also explained that my gaming group is made up of members of my paintball team, and those tactics work really well for the scenario games we go to. He was happy with this explanation, and I got everything back except a digital camera. Poor guy was really worried as to why someone with no military background would want such information. Of course, made me wonder how many watch lists I was added to after all of that. Heh.

Rifts and Palladium in general ruined me on RPGs for a long time. I will say that I truly miss 2300AD and I wish that would be reprinted or brought back in its original form.

I have a very nostalgic place in my heart for PSI-World. To this day, I pull out the old books (of which I have every one) and try to figure out how to get my regular groop interested.

Some of my other old game loves,
Call of Cthulhu (still going, I know, but in the early days, scared the hell outa me.)
Top Secret
Early Champions
Paranoia
Warhammer FRP
Villains and Vigilantes (my first foray into superhero RPGs, Gads how I remember the random superpower generation of this game...)
Recon
and almost everything already mentioned.

Mark

Sure.

I packed up all my gear about 10 years ago and got ready to sell it. Didn't get a good deal so I just kept it in boxes. Fast forward to November 2006. My wife can't stand boxes kicking around the house. Either put them on shelves or get rid of them.

So I finally gave in and started unpacking my gaming gear with an eye towards selling it off.

I'm going through my stuff; D&D, AD&D, AD&D2e, CoC boxed, Paranoia boxed, oh look, Shadowrun 1st and 2nd. Browse. Universal Brotherhood, yea that was cool. Denver boxed set. Yea, I think I'll put Shadowrun aside; unpack 35 or so books to the shelves.

Over the next couple of weeks I read the 1st and 2nd ed rules, browsed the adventures. Rigger Black Book, Street Sam Catalog.

I dropped in on rpg.net to start cataloging the books I wanted to sell. Found dumpshock and then started searching for books. eBay, Titan Games, Troll & Toad, and Dragon's Trove and I have the rest of 1st and 2nd and most of third as well as all the paperbacks.

I decided there was just too much 3rd to assimilate and with 4th recently out, I went with that. I played 3rd and a year ago started running 4th.

So yea. I do read the old books

Carl

I've lost many through the passage of time. Stuff my mom threw out when I was in college, etc. Stuff that's outta print now and only really found online rarely.

The one game I really really loved, and wished would come back was Star Frontiers. Sure d20 tried to bring something similar back via Alternity, but I wanted Star Frontiers.

I was a big Champions fan too, never kept up to date with it past whatever they were printing mid 90s or so.

I'm still a big fan of Marvel Superheroes and DC RPG system. I've still got characters built for the games, though I never get to play them anymore.

As I sit here in my game/computer room with double rows of book selves of nothing but my collection of RPing books.

Empire of the Petal Throne
Chivalry and Sorcery all iterations
AnD all iterations up to 3rd
Traveller all but the latest iterations
BattleLords
GURPs and its Traveller iterations
Shadowrun and its iterations
Bunnies and Burrows
Monster, Monster
Morrow Project
Gamma World
Metamorphosis Alpha
Phoenix Command and variants
Harn and its many iterations
DnD
ChainMail
Champions
Space: 1889

It has been a long time of RPing games for me.

WMS

Some lovely titles remembered


Just to let you know...
...Star Frontiers is apparently now "freeware" and some kind soul has put the rules, some scenario's, updates, etc on the web for FREE download and use.

One of me favorite games of yesteryear is Spawn of Fashan. I never could figure out quite why it never really caught on. I mean the rules aren't that much more complicated than the Unified Tax Code.

...OK was just doing some rearranging around the flat and came a cross a bunch of old RPG stuff. Along with the original D&D, AD&D, Original Shadowrun, and SRII there are a few "gems":

...Space Opera by FGU. This is a game that was ahead of it's time for it really required a PC (of the computer variety) to manage a campaign before PCs became a reality for the average person. I ended up using a slide rule, a 5 function calculator (y'know one of those cheesy TI ones with the red LEDs), and a Jeppsen pilot's Calculator to figure out hyperspace times and TISA fuel consumption. Then there were the starship and character combat systems that make SRIII look like Tunnels and Trolls (see below).

...Chivalry and Sorcery (FGU again). Written my medieval re-creationists with doctorates in abstract math. Chargen involved tables for just about everything as well as quadratic equations. So "realistic it was totally unplayable. Only used it for the fluff.

...The aforementioned Champions (the original 1st printing Blue cover version that looked as if it was typeset with an Olivetti Underwood Manual typewriter) Still one of the most fun games I ever played. Also have the updates and sourcebooks including Champions III - the "Super Supplement" and the first Enemies

...Fantasy Hero: Champions meets D&D.

...Space Hero: Champions in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace......

...Danger International: Champions Meets James Bond.

...Villains and Vigilantes: FGU's foray into the costumed hero genre, Actually one of the most playable games they ever published.

...Traveller: the original boxed GDW one including Mercenaries, High Guard, Merchants, and several issues of the Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society.

...Star Trek the RPG (FASA): Played only a couple times as rules were kind of like SR Matrix rules.

...Call of Cthulu the Chaosium one, the only one.

...Runequest: Chaosium's Fantasy RPG which was far ahead of D&D. I always liked the way you improved skills (same mechanic as CoC above)

...Tunnels and Trolls (Flying Buffalo): A real oldie but goodie. Simple dice mechanic, more sensible armour and magic system, colourful spell names, and so much fun. Like SR, a game where the more 6 siders you had, the better.

...and finally, the first RPG I ever played (and still like) Beasts Men and Gods: A small press publication that unfortunately had only limited distribution. Like T&T it had armour absorb and magic point system as well as a pretty good combat mechanic. Mages could wear armour though depending on the discipline, it increased the risk of a spell backfiring (a spell could still backfire even if the mage was unarmoured). There were also some very interesting classes including a hybrid thief-mage called the Shadow Mage and a Warrior Priest. BM&G also had an interesting Chargen system that pared up related attributes like Strength & Con, Dex and Agility, which shared a common control die that was rolled first and added to a 2D6 roll for each attribute. Hence for example, a fighter character wouldn't have a huge disparity between Strength and Con as could happen in D&D. Unfortunately the game did not survive on the market long enough to allow for any supplements or updates.

...ohh and one more, Car Wars: OK not a true RPG but in a way your vehicle was the character as you had to custom design it. Also have Sunday Driver, Truck Stop (18 wheelers and buses), and Autoduel the Champions/Car Wars crossover

Another game that deserves mention, at least in my opinion, is Dream Park. Interesting concept, and easily able to handle many different gaming styles (sometimes even at the same time ).

Damn I loved Tunnels and Trolls. It's been so long since I'd seen anyone else acknowledge it's existance, I was beginning to wonder if I'd dreamed the whole thing.

Take that you Fiend! "Colourful spell names" indeed.

I liked Monster, Monster made by the Flying Buffalo who made T&T.

Nothing going in and destroying a village of humans, getting points for creative destruction too.

WMS

Heck, I sold off and got rid of a lot of books for various games over the years... robotech, various D&D stuff, a lot of random garbage and what-not that I got into for whatever amount of time for sundry reasons. I've settled down into a few games that I still buy for, on occasion, even if they are no longer produced...

I still keep Hero System (4th edition and now the 5th ed. revised, a sprinkle of 3rd, but none of that Fuzion stuff) and all my Shadowrun stuff (1st ed. and on), Cyberpunk (1st and 2020). I bought into d20 modern to try and get some of the D&D nuts to maybe play something different, but I also have a bunch of D&D since 1st Ed. advanced came along. I mostly keep that stuff for nostalgia than any actual use anymore. I also have Tribe 8, from Dream Pod 9, which was a fun game, but no one wants to play that one anymore.. and started a GURPS collection just to offset the Hero stuff in assumed scale.

A lot of memories with Traveller, a disaster of a Villains and Vigilantes game, several Mechwarrior games.. but as a whole, I have to say I wasn't too adventurous on getting a lot of games. I've dabbled in several mentioned above, but can't say I've been big on most of them. =)

Toying with Savage Worlds lately because someone wants to run a game of it. Its so simple that its almost a great way to start a pick-up game or introduce new people to roleplaying as a hobby. I mention that as its absorbed Call of Cthulu, Deadlands, and others... heck, I think its based on old Call of Cthulu, isn't it?

I bought way more books than I ever played games of, just because I liked reading the books. Played a lot of AD+D 2nd ed when I was in the military, I introduced my D+D pals to Shadowrun.

My first gaming was D+D, closely followed by Top Secret S.I. and the F.R.E.E.lancers add-on (superpowers). Loved the Marvel Super Heroes game, especially the Ultimate Powers Book. Got my butt kicked the one time I played Star Fleet Battles (shooting the enemy with the rear torpedo launcher is not a smart thing to try your first time out). Got my butt kicked my first time out in Mechwarrior, too.(Jumping an 80 ton assault mech onto the top of a 2 story apartment building is also not a smart thing). Got a lot of the Star Trek RPG books, and a weird one called Tripping the Night Fantastic, or something close to that. It was a pretty funny setting with supernatural stuff happening in the modern world, puns everywhere.

Thats just Dirty.....

My favorite old skool game from my misspent youth is Synnibar. "Why is one of the most reviled, dissed, and generally disdained RPGs of all time your favorite RPG?!?", you ask.

Because no matter how bad my own adventure and/or game ideas seem after I look them over a few days or weeks later, I can always open one of Synnibar's two books and say to myself, "Self, at least your ideas don't suck as much as this shit that managed to get published and sell enough copies to make a second edition."

Which is a really sad statement, when you think about it. :crazy:
In all seriousness, I know several people who enjoyed the game, but I could never get into.



I loved that skill improvement mechanic.



Fuzion: The Original "gives you cancer" game system. Champions: New Millennium, gave me Gamer-Rage.



So, what you're saying is that Synnibar is the uglier-than-you-friend you bring to the bar to make yourself look more attractive?

Wait, it had a second edition!? WTF?

-paws

Anyone ever take a look at Aria : Canticle of the Monomyth. Talk about unreal. Was probably the most in-depth system I've ever used. So in-depth it was too much. Probably why it was never going to succeed. You could spend a week creating a character (or their family tree) and then you'd forget you had to actually have stats.

Another fun game I used to play was TMNT from Palladium. There's something about playing a nefarious toad-man haha.

Not sure if I mentioned this before (and too lazy to go check), but...

Speaking of mutant animals, does anyone remember a game called Justifiers?

-paws

Oh yeah! I've played a little bit of Justifiers. A friend had the booklet and ran a few games for us back when I was in high school. I liked it but could never find a copy of my own.

Anyone remember Bounty Hunter? Not the current Runescape online thing but the RPG with one manual?

Sounds vaguely familiar. Do you remember what was on the cover?

-paws

Damn, my copy of the book is stored in Toronto, and I'm 4000 km. away. If memory serves me, it's a futuristic / cyberpunky person looking left, holding a fancy handgun up James Bond style.

Yeah, like that's unique.

Peter

Hmm. Not what I'm thinking of.

I think the cover I'm thinking of was for Palladium's Rifts Manhunter.

-paws
PS Damn, I was really into Palladium during the 90's, I guess... *shudder*

All the time. Examples:
- Empire Of The Petal Throne
- Talislanta
- HoL
- The Morrow Project

Oh yeah. My favorite game next to Shadowrun is still AD&D 2nd edition, and I have an old Top Secret box set around somewhere. Also a huge fan of Alternity, and I'm always up for good game of Rifts.