Oh dear, it's his first topic and it's a question. Surely this can't be good.

Anyway. I've been spending quite a while now looking for a decent shooter for a character with a bit of an aversion to murdering people (not pure pacifism, there's a revolver in there too for nasty sorts) and while tasers and light crossbows (and narcoject-y injection bolts) immediately stand out to me, I was wondering if there was something more along the lines of a tranquilizer pistol buried somewhere amongst the gear list somewhere, or perhaps some modifications from Arsenal that would be suitable for converting a light pistol? I ask only because crossbows don't strike me as particularly stealthy... though I suppose with improved assembly time and a nice shielded carrying case that could change.

Ares Supersquit Pg 309 SR4.

Requires exotic weapon skill.

Loaded w/ Neurostun pg 246 SR4. (10 damage I think?)

I can't recall where the costs for that are, but if I remember right once struck, armor dosen't help?

I miss the old Narcojet Pistols and Rifles...

Did I miss them somewhere in SR4?

Stick 'n' Shock?

I just love the image of kids in a squirtgun fight, and the son of a runner mistakenly hosing his friends with some neurostun

Ooh, totally missed the squirty gun, though I reckon people would probably think you're mad running about the streets of Seattle (or wherever) with a glorified super-soaker... maybe a plus or minus one to intimidating people with it depending on how well you can do a creepy stare?

Stick n Shock is good, but if you want chemtech, look to Arsenal.

Capsul Rounds + Slab (drug) = hibernation.

Seriously, Slab does not do any damage - Stun or otherwise - yet if someone fails their resistance test, you need a medical professional to tell they are still alive for the next several hours.

Ah, wow, that's perfect! Even a Buddhist monk couldn't argue with that one! Getting my hands on some Slab might be a little difficult, but I'm sure I stick-n-shock or neurostun or something can keep me alive until then.

I'd go with a NarcoJet [regardless if it's been "officially" removed]...
...But failing that paintball guns loaded with a DMSO/something nice.

And with a quick change...
...swap the DMSO/something nice for acid rounds for something nasty.


Takeshi Kovacs [Richard Morgan's trilogy] uses hallucinagenic grenades on people he doesn't want to kill...
...And I remember someone talking about a squirty spray that is absorbed on contact with skin, and affects the victim's short term memory - they talked about a possible crime wave where people would get mugged and would not remember it.

Or if you have a nice GM, and a very capable techie, build yourself a Tasp [stimulates the brain's pleasure centre, from a distance]

"... look, I swear I thought I had Slab in that capsule round! How was I supposed to know it was cyanide!"

That squirty spray sounds a little like that elven drug, laes... mix that with some DMSO, and you've got the perfect stealthy weapon!

What if you loaded you pistol with gamma-scopolamine? You would paralyze the victim for an hour and after another hour it will be easier for them to tell the truth.

I always found the most non-lethal weapon was the sparrowhawk rocket in arsenal, because if you point that at anyone they would probably surrender on the spot. Who can say no to someone holding a 22p -6 ap -1 damage per meter weapon? Either that or a top of the line rifle with ap rounds in it. One of the most non-lethal weapons out there especially after two called shots to the head. Well.... lethal for them, but very non-lethal for you.

You want concealable? A hold-out with Stick and Shock still does 6S.

Definately check out arsenal. So many chemicals and weapons. Also you can modify a mini crossbow to look like jewellery or a rubber band, a paper clip and some rulers (Hello McGuyver). Also, you can get 100 dose aerosol sprays of any compound If you can get close enough, just spray some-one in the face.

Shadowrunners "... and sometimes we spray people right in the face for money"

It's not exactly a great ranged weapon, but you could get a chemical gland producing a contact poison and the spit upgrade.

Hard to detect, stealthy and has replenishing ammo (providing you can wait for the gland to restock). Works best if you also make yourself immune to the chemical, that was a glitch doesn't result in a mouthfull of poison knocking you out.....

They do mention dart guns, at least, in Arsenal, and there are cyber-dartguns. Maybe someday we'll get our Narcojects back. They had them somewhere weird in third edition, too, after all.

Why not a BioWare, so that you sweat something suitable..
..Then you'd only need to touch your target on bare skin ??

Or "attack" by kissing ??

ok to help cut down on needed skills just get a ares pred 4, so you can have a smart link and a silencer, or infact get any semi auto pistol so you can have a silencer, and load up on capsule rounds from arsenal and load them with Narcoject, after all all you need then is 1 single hit as long as they don't have a chem sealed suit ofcourse hehe, or if your not worried about noise get a fabuki (that the right name?) and laod it with the above ammo, also you could do the dsmo/pepperpunch mix or a load of others, try them, mix them, experiment. I mean it isn't a party till some one passes around the weaponized ...well you get the picture. Yes better living and looting through chesitry!

In increasing order of both cost and effectiveness:

Gel rounds
Stick'n'Shock rounds
Capsule rounds with DMSO / Narcoject
Capsule rounds with DMSO / something fancy (like gam-scop)

Because the effects of multiple does aren't totally clear, I'd load my gun with alternating capsule rounds and stick'n'shock. Shoot them in the head with the capsule round - they take stun damage from that. Then they take more stun damage from the narcoject. Then you shoot them again with the stick'n'shock - more stun damage, they should be on the ground by this point. Then you shoot the next target with both rounds (two shots a pass so it's easy to keep track of, first round is drug and the second electric).

A silenced light pistol (like the Ares Light Fire) is an ideal delivery system. You'll be putting people on the ground faster than if you were using explosive rounds, which should shut up anyone accusing you of being 'soft'. Useless against drones though, and dicy against someone with a pain editor.

There's no real reason to use lethal weapons as standard in SR4 - nonlethal weapons are both more effective and piss less people off. Lethal weapons are specialised devices for when nonlethal won't work (or you're doing wetwork).

Well with the info he gave those issuesof drones and dudes with pain editors should not be an issue and if it is, a warhawk with adps or anti veh rounds are in order if you don't have a gun bunny to hide behind.

I used to like the old DMSO/Hyper cocktail. When I first started in the SR game, I liked the usual run and gun approach, like a cliched 80s action movie. Or a John Woo flick. Bullets bullets bullets. But for some unknown reason, I started to get mindful of all the dead bodies my characters (and party) were leaving behind. I like the unrealistic aspect of vid games, where you rack up body counts of insane measures, largely cause vid games are a 'no consequence' kinda thing. In my RPGs though, i tend to like the idea of consequences for the choices/actions you make, and was starting to feel a disconnect with the fact that some of my games were taking on a "Yeah we'll call in an airstrike and pop the whole damn skyscraper" level of carnage, yet, two gaming weeks later, we're still able to run around the same city more or less without consequences.

So I moved to nonlethal. Shock rounds are fun, especially when they came up with those taserdarts (self contained, no wires) in one of the old sourcebooks. Then chemical mixes from the old Shadowtech book.

I guess I like the Metal Gear Solid tranqgun approach nowadays.

In some cases you don't have a choice, you need lethal firepower to take out certain foes, but I kinda like the idea of leaving unconscious, and unaware foes. Preferably foes that don't know who I am. Its sorta a given that if they got a good look at my char, they need to die. My recent (well, most recent, since its been over 2 years since I've played) chars like the whole "Nobody knows who I am/what I look like" approach too.

Don't get it wrong, Stick-n-Shock can take down a drone--it's just that it gets right back up again as soon as it reboots. I took out a steel lynx with one punch from my character's customized shockgloves that are tweaked to do 10s(e). Had to have a teammate finish it off, but the point is I'm the one that made it stop moving.

Electrical damage is really sweet, because of all the effects it has. Halves armor, and you've got a flat chance of temporarily incapacitating anything, man or machine, that you hit with electrical damage, plus metahumans take a -2 penalty on their actions no matter what so long as you hit.

Pepper Punch for my money. 5NY, totally legal, and incapacitates for three rounds. (Which is more than long enough if you, your friends, or both have multiple IPs.)

Um... being shocked is a difficulty threshold 3 to resist it, so meta/humans can. Also there is insulated armor that can resist against shock and lightening attacks. That being said by RAW stun damage does not effect a drone. Makes sense that electricity will knock out a drone, but I don't remember reading anything about that.

On a side note how the heck did you get 10s shock gloves? Thats a bit overpowered in my opinion considering the 1/2 ap it has. The only other thing besides a grenade is arsenal has a vehicle mounted heavy water cannon that does around 10-12s with the 1/2 ap.

Where is that in the books.

BBB, of all things. The rules for how it hits you are on 246, and the price (and that beautiful, BEAUTIFUL "Availablity: --") are on 329. (Remember, kids: nausea incapacitates!)

yeah, and pepper punch grenades are dirt cheap also, and works based on skin contact oh, and gas grenades of are also not hard to find (availability 4) and completely legal (no joke, it's not even restricted!).

and of course, the defiance ex shocker is a stun DV 8 electrical attack out to 20 meters... 20 meters may not *sound* like much, but in most cases for indoor combat it's way more than enough. you do still need a secondary weapon of course, but again, it's not even restricted, and it's useful in melee as well ^^

yup, nonlethal is where it's at

You want a non-lethal weapon?

Rating 6 Toxin Extractor, and a whole lot of booze.

Challange them to a drinking contest.

I suggest a high Con with a specialization in "Drunkeness".

Put 'em under the table, and they won't even think ill of you!

Yeah my Sasha carries two of those in hidden arms slides to get around that pesky SS firing mode
And that pepper punch fill do nicely for my face.

Being incapacitated has a threshold of 3, to quote the BBB: "Even if the target succeeds, he suffers a -2 dice pool modifier on all action tests due to diorientation from the shock for the same period." So just hitting a metahuman with shock weaponry gives them a -2 penalty for 2 combat turns + 1 turn per net hit.

Drones have to roll body+armor to resist the attack. If they get fewer hits than the attacker, they shut down for (2 + net hits) combat turns , no matter what the DV was.

As for Rei's shock gloves, the GM let me apply the firing selection (SA) modification, to represent my concept of shock gloves that had been tweaked to draw twice the power per hit, but were harder to use because of the feedback. The mechanics are roughly the same as adding a semi-automatic mode to a single shot firearm with an internal clip.

A man portable active denial system?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16794717/

What like the pain inducer.