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HappyDaze
After reading the Vampire rules from the Runner's Companion, I'm left with a few questions.

1) When using Mist Form, does the vampire leave his/her (non-Essence-bound) equipment behind? Most of the shapechanging powers in SR tend to not bring equipment with them, but it seems like a gray area right now.

2) Do vampires (and other Infected) with extra IPs retain these when astral projecting (assuming they have purchased the Magician Quality)?

3) A vampire has a maximum Essence of 12 (double its natural maximum of 6). Does cyber/bio reduce directly from this maximum (the 12) or does it reduce the natural maximum (the 6) which is then doubled to get the new maximum?

Example: A vampire opts to get some cyber do-dads installed. He gets them for a final Essence Cost of 1.5 after factoring in the deltaware modifiers. Does this drop his maximum Essence to 10.5 or does it drop his natural maximum to 4.5 thus giving him a new maximum Essence of 9?

4) Is the given starting Essence of 5 just a marker of how recently you've fed? There doesn't appear to be anything stopping you from immediately feeding. Is it there just to be a cap on purchasing Magic during character gen? Also, is this starting Essence reduced by taking bio/cyber (assuming that you are somehow allowed access to deltaware during character gen)?

5) How does spending Essence work? Reading the BBB is a bit odd in the way it's worded, and it appears that you can exceed the Vampire maximums and that you don't lose the essence until the end of the 12 hours. Can boosted Magic exceed Essence + Initiate Grade? An example would help.
Starmage21
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Aug 10 2008, 10:01 AM) *
After reading the Vampire rules from the Runner's Companion, I'm left with a few questions.

1) When using Mist Form, does the vampire leave his/her (non-Essence-bound) equipment behind? Most of the shapechanging powers in SR tend to not bring equipment with them, but it seems like a gray area right now.

2) Do vampires (and other Infected) with extra IPs retain these when astral projecting (assuming they have purchased the Magician Quality)?

3) A vampire has a maximum Essence of 12 (double its natural maximum of 6). Does cyber/bio reduce directly from this maximum (the 12) or does it reduce the natural maximum (the 6) which is then doubled to get the new maximum?

Example: A vampire opts to get some cyber do-dads installed. He gets them for a final Essence Cost of 1.5 after factoring in the deltaware modifiers. Does this drop his maximum Essence to 10.5 or does it drop his natural maximum to 4.5 thus giving him a new maximum Essence of 9?

4) Is the given starting Essence of 5 just a marker of how recently you've fed? There doesn't appear to be anything stopping you from immediately feeding. Is it there just to be a cap on purchasing Magic during character gen? Also, is this starting Essence reduced by taking bio/cyber (assuming that you are somehow allowed access to deltaware during character gen)?

5) How does spending Essence work? Reading the BBB is a bit odd in the way it's worded, and it appears that you can exceed the Vampire maximums and that you don't lose the essence until the end of the 12 hours. Can boosted Magic exceed Essence + Initiate Grade? An example would help.


I hope at the very least various GMs can come in here and tell us how they would adjudicate said rules. Gives the rest of us a good idea what to go on.
jago668
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Aug 10 2008, 10:01 AM) *
After reading the Vampire rules from the Runner's Companion, I'm left with a few questions.

1) When using Mist Form, does the vampire leave his/her (non-Essence-bound) equipment behind? Most of the shapechanging powers in SR tend to not bring equipment with them, but it seems like a gray area right now.

2) Do vampires (and other Infected) with extra IPs retain these when astral projecting (assuming they have purchased the Magician Quality)?

3) A vampire has a maximum Essence of 12 (double its natural maximum of 6). Does cyber/bio reduce directly from this maximum (the 12) or does it reduce the natural maximum (the 6) which is then doubled to get the new maximum?

Example: A vampire opts to get some cyber do-dads installed. He gets them for a final Essence Cost of 1.5 after factoring in the deltaware modifiers. Does this drop his maximum Essence to 10.5 or does it drop his natural maximum to 4.5 thus giving him a new maximum Essence of 9?

4) Is the given starting Essence of 5 just a marker of how recently you've fed? There doesn't appear to be anything stopping you from immediately feeding. Is it there just to be a cap on purchasing Magic during character gen? Also, is this starting Essence reduced by taking bio/cyber (assuming that you are somehow allowed access to deltaware during character gen)?

5) How does spending Essence work? Reading the BBB is a bit odd in the way it's worded, and it appears that you can exceed the Vampire maximums and that you don't lose the essence until the end of the 12 hours. Can boosted Magic exceed Essence + Initiate Grade? An example would help.


These are just how I would table rule it when running.

1 - It would be left behind. By essence bound I would say cyber, bio, foci, etc would tag along.

2 - I would say yes, up to the max of 4.

3 - I would take it off the 6, and double the leftover. (In your example it would be the later. Drop to 4.5 and double.)

4 - I would assume it is an artifical cap. As such after the character is created they could increase their essence. Me personally. I'd let you roll 1d12 (since I have one or 2d6 if you don't) and let that be your starting essence.

5 - I'd have to go look it up and don't feel like it right now. =)
Isath
On 1-3 I tag along with jago668 here.

On 4 I would stick with 5. For me it is a good starting value, that can reflect many things, but most importantly supplies the character with both, a buffer that keeps him alive and the need to feed.

...and finally on 5, the combination of the BBB and the RC makes it more than clear I'd say. The description of essence drain is good enough - mostly. About your more specific question: I would handle it as the books have it, you can temporarily exeed your maxima, that goes for magic aswell. The last part is a bit tricky, I'll admit that, but here's what I think. Normaly I would have the essence be consumed the moment it is used to raise the attributes, but I decided otherwise for balance reasons. The essence will be consumed once the effect of the boost wears off (end of duration / after the 12hours), else the infected could boost, drain, boost, drain, period.

Sofar...so...far.

The Monk
As far as #1 I would officiate it that all of his stuff goes with him. Reason is, when Dracula turns to mist and enters the victim's room, he doesn't appear beside her bed naked.

Here's a question, if you have a PC that gets turned into a vampire during the game, what happens to all of his cyber/bio wares that aren't delta grade?
Jaid
QUOTE (The Monk @ Aug 11 2008, 01:18 AM) *
As far as #1 I would officiate it that all of his stuff goes with him. Reason is, when Dracula turns to mist and enters the victim's room, he doesn't appear beside her bed naked.

Here's a question, if you have a PC that gets turned into a vampire during the game, what happens to all of his cyber/bio wares that aren't delta grade?


regeneration pushes it out of his body and life (or whatever it is) sucks for the next few minutes.

if you're lucky, it'll do that while you're unconscious though, and maybe even leave the cyber intact enough for you to sell it and get *some* money back.
Malicant
As far as question 1 is concerned I'd use the Discworld rules. Male vampire keeps his sutff, female vampire leaves it behind. biggrin.gif

Those extra IPs I would consider to be similar to initiative boosters (I think I read somewhere they don't stack) and would hence say you lose them in Astral space. It's a physical boost, so it would not apply in Astral space.
Squinky
Pg. 77 Runner Companion:

If any condition other than Essence Loss or another character
or spirit using the Essence Drain power were to cause the Infected
character to lose Essence—such as receiving a cyberware implant,
or a burnout addiction—the cost is subtracted from their maximum
Essence instead.

Thats pretty straightforward smile.gif
jago668
QUOTE (Squinky @ Aug 12 2008, 09:19 PM) *
Pg. 77 Runner Companion:

If any condition other than Essence Loss or another character
or spirit using the Essence Drain power were to cause the Infected
character to lose Essence—such as receiving a cyberware implant,
or a burnout addiction—the cost is subtracted from their maximum
Essence instead.

Thats pretty straightforward smile.gif


Aye, and their natural max is 6. The essence drain power lets you pull that up temporarily to 12. Hence me saying I'd go with 4.5, and then doubling.
Squinky
It dosen't say Natural maximum smile.gif

I'm sure you could squabble over the wording, but the way it is worded to me seems to mean the natural maximum they refer to in the paragraph right before that smile.gif Which is the 12.
jago668
Eh, I doubt it will ever come in a game I run. However if it does I'll do it my way, and you can do it your way in your games. We just won't tell each other, and all will be well. =)
HappyDaze
OK, a new one:

6) A vampire Adept (or Mystic Adept) uses Essence Drain and boosts his Magic. Can he select a set of adept powers with the boosted Magic that lasts for the next 12 hours? Can he select a different set of powers on different occasions that he uses this ability?
Starmage21
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Aug 14 2008, 12:28 AM) *
OK, a new one:

6) A vampire Adept (or Mystic Adept) uses Essence Drain and boosts his Magic. Can he select a set of adept powers with the boosted Magic that lasts for the next 12 hours? Can he select a different set of powers on different occasions that he uses this ability?



Thats a tough one, but the only way I could answer this one myself is to look back at a previous edition(SR3) for precedent. In SR3 did aquiring a power focus or any other temporary boost to magic allow you to get additional adept powers?
Isath
Adepts couldn't use powerfoci as far as I remember (and I do not want to look it up right now wink.gif).
HappyDaze
Note that a Power Focus doesn't directly increase MAgic, it only adds bonus dice. The Essense Drain power is clear that you do directly raise your Magic score. This should certainly result in more power points for adepts/mystic adepts but my question is whether those extra powers need to be preset or if they can be configured anew each time you boost Magic. Anyone?
Isath
Hm, don't know, as I propably wouldn't grant any powerpoints for temporary magic gain in this manner.
Starmage21
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Aug 14 2008, 09:39 AM) *
Note that a Power Focus doesn't directly increase MAgic, it only adds bonus dice. The Essense Drain power is clear that you do directly raise your Magic score. This should certainly result in more power points for adepts/mystic adepts but my question is whether those extra powers need to be preset or if they can be configured anew each time you boost Magic. Anyone?


I meant a power focus in SR3, which I beleive boosted magic.
HappyDaze
I don't feel that SR3 mechanics are relevant to a rules question on an exclusively SR4 character type, especially as the Power Focus has been rewritten for SR4 to a form that is different (presumably, the SR4 wording of the Power Focus is to avoid just this sort of issue with adepts).
Starmage21
QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Aug 14 2008, 10:16 AM) *
I don't feel that SR3 mechanics are relevant to a rules question on an exclusively SR4 character type, especially as the Power Focus has been rewritten for SR4 to a form that is different (presumably, the SR4 wording of the Power Focus is to avoid just this sort of issue with adepts).


Right, but it was my intention to look back on previous editions of the game to find a precedent for giving or not giving additional power points to adepts who find a temporary boost in their magic ratings. A decision-making aid if you will.
Squinky
QUOTE (jago668 @ Aug 14 2008, 12:35 AM) *
Eh, I doubt it will ever come in a game I run. However if it does I'll do it my way, and you can do it your way in your games. We just won't tell each other, and all will be well. =)


I'd probably do the same smile.gif

It's just, they way I read it.
Apathy
As I remember it, Adepts in SR3 were not allowed to bond power foci. However, there was precedent in how adepts temporarily lost power points due to breaking geasa. In those cases, I believe that the adept got to choose what was lost in which order. After designating his choices, he was stuck with that order throughout the campaign (could be wrong - somebody please correct me if so.) It would make sense that the converse would be true also.

So basically, the vamp adept could claim all the powers as he would have them at his max possible magic, and declare the order at which those powers would be lost as magic declined to the level he's currently at. but when he gets his essence back, the powers would come back in the same sequence as he lost them and he wouldn't get to gain different powers instead.

Just my opinion - YMMV.
hyzmarca

Personally, I'd rule that these points can be used for new powers but can be used to temporilary increase the ratings of current powers that have ratings.
jago668
I like Apathy's answer. Except it should probably be said the powers come back in reverse sequance from how they were lost.
Apathy
QUOTE (jago668 @ Aug 14 2008, 04:25 PM) *
Except it should probably be said the powers come back in reverse sequance from how they were lost.

Thanks, that's what I meant. I just didn't say it well.
jago668
I figured it was what you were going for. Wanted to be clear, just in case.
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