So I was looking over the levitation spell, and had the idea of mystic adept flying shock troops (bear with the idea, its not the topic) and how fast they could fly.

But then I got to thinking, whats the limit? RAW wise, speed would only matter when hitting an object, as far as I can tell. But when does terminal velocity, g-forces, and 'break neck speeds' begin to affect the metaphysical body?

The speed of sound is 340.29 meters per second. As far as my group is concerned, a combat turn is 6 seconds. So if you can cast from a magic 6 character, force 12 (bit of over kill for speed, I know) you can move at 72m a turn.

In theory, could you just accelerate some one to break neck speeds and just break their bones by force of speed alone?


Thanks in advance.
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My ruling; you get to ignore the laws of physics with magic, they get to ignore you back. They don't accelerate or decelerate, they move without inertia or momentum transfers. They also ignore air resistance and any other frictional forces.

It only seems fair to work it this way.

I'm pretty sure a combat turn is supposed to be 3 seconds, but anyway 72m per turn is nothing approaching the speed of sound. It's not acceleration, that is the maximum speed you can move someone with levitate. 5 g's is generally assumed to be the maximum a normal human can take for any significant length of time without losing vision/consciousness. 5g's is approximately 49m/s2, going 72m per 3 seconds is only 24m/s2, less than half what is required for a brownout/blackout. So, until you get to Magic 9/Force 18 for 162m in 3 seconds or approximately 54m/s2 you really don't have to worry about it, as far as I can tell. Not an expert, mind you.

Chris

G information pulled from wikipedia, of course.

Are you asking if the levitate target going from 0 to ~55 mph in no time at all causes their brains to leak out of their ears from the acceleration, then no.

If you are asking if you can run them into walls at ~55mph and cause them all sorts of pain and suffering; that's somewhat debateable; however treating such levitation damage like a combat spell of some sort probably wouldn't screw things up too bad.

Of course, with the terrible falling rules that SR is typically saddled with, levitating them up a few meters in the and letting them fall down will probably generate an explosive spray of viscera and blood that will blanket all targets in a 2d6 meter radius...

If you want to go from 0 - 55 instantly you will probably feel like your head has been punched by the back of your brain. If you don't take some form of acceleration into account and go from 0 to 130 mph instantly w/o at least some time taken into account for the acceleration you are going to probably going to give yourself a concussion. Rules wise... I don't know.... doesn't really talk about it all that much so why not. Kind of like the idea of being able to matrix dodge bullets when fired at you. If you were that fast you would turn your brain into a fine icky paste. It's hard to take into account what will probably sting and what will kill you, since there isn't much information out there dealing with brains being destroyed by collisions on different speeds... well maybe there is, but hell if I know where it is.

Don't forget the crash rules are also a bit silly Crusher Bob.

Off-topic, but I am curious why your group doubled the normal time interval for a Combat Turn? I have always found 3 seconds to make much more sense than the 6-second d20 standard.

Also, Levitate speed is [Force x Net Hits] meters per turn, so your Force 12 would not be a fixed 72m, but any multiple of 12 from 0 to 144.

It's fucking magic. Beholden not to the rules that the rest of us are bound is it. In a spirit of trying to achieve its intent with minimal silliness, we have to assume that it does, in fact, rape the body physic and achieve a change in velocity without obeying the laws of motion.

Okay, so it can actually avoid violating equal-and-opposite for the internal cases (organs, cardiovascular system, bones, etc) by applying a small force to every particle, but the recourse of "it's magic" is far easier to explain to people who have forgotten (or never learnt, which I consider as a possibility only with trepidation) their basic Physics. It's still ignoring conservation of momentum.

There are many things that one could rule on with magic and who knows how levitation exactly achieves what it does. As there is no mention of accelerating people to death, I'd think the spell may not be working that way. On the other hand, it might simply be, that it is much easier to kill people with a force 5 manabolt than to us a force 19 levitate, which would instantly kill the caster, making him unable to actually move anything with his spell.

There are many of those tactic that one could use... a Weapon specialist could for example try to hit the opponents head, by shooting through his own - but then again this may not be the most reasonable way

Using levitation to crash people into walls or have them drop from heights might work however.

Howdy! Thank you guys very much for the replies!

Why 6 over 3? ....We used to play alot of DnD, so our first SR GM called it at 6 seconds. Now I know! (In before 'Knowing is half the battle!')

The idea that physics bends the rules for people who are subject to Levitation (or a modified form to only target the caster, Ie 'Fly') so that they would basically move through the air at X speed at will without the ill effects on them for speed. While I would wonder (fluff wise) where that line goes to, I'll leave that for later (I know a player is going to ask a dumb question like, if I crack a beer, does it fly out past me or can I drink it like -this?- *chug*). Would attached items, like an item in an open pocket be subject to this null of physics, would it fly out? Or if they hit a person (With a flying fist for example) while flying by, what happens?

Also, Isath: One of the players thought of that, which brought us to looking up such things other than 'it just works'. He's a rules baron like that >.>

OK, now, here's the question, if someone is levitated up into the air, say a 50-Kilo Club-Girl wacked out on $Diety that just beat up a group of hard-arsed Shadowrunners with a Picnick Table, is Levitated stright-up, and lands on Mr. Johnson's Mercury Comet in the parking lot.

Would the terminal velocity of the crash ruin the car and the girl?

Additional Question: How pissed off should Mr. Johnson be?

As for the extra oomph from the car, you could just do it as distance falling (Terminal I think is defined as 300m/turn or 100m/second. Page 155 SR4) at terminal. Then Find out what 50 kilos (about 110lbs) does to Johnson's Comet [Body 10]. Feel Free to to skip my math on this.

If falling damage is one turn at terminal velocity(and for this, we'll count starting at terminal only) is 7P for the first 10 meters, then additional 5P per every extra 10m. One turn at terminal velocity would be 152P for the initial, and 150P for every extra turn at terminal. Keeping with the idea that it would be equal on both ends, deal it to the car and probably the next few levels of permacrete below. I'd say losing 50-100P for loss of speed per impact that the target does not survive.


Suffice to say, I would say neither survive... and then some.

Edit: I forgot the most important part! 'Very' seems to not fit as well as 'Where the hell is my car?!' for Mr Johnson.

OK, cool.

Greg the Pixie Mage just got major bragging rights! Most amount of damage dealt in one turn.

And Mr. Johnson can afford a new car. And is going to take it out on the people who are peddling the chips that allowed a 50-Kilo woman to beat up some Shadowrunners.

...

OK, this spell is just *KILLER*, isn't it?

Additional: "Dude, Paris Hilton just hit us with a TABLE. If that isn't an ambush I don't know what is!"

Yes.Yes it is.

It would seem that the limits of Shadowrun are truly the imagination. I'm just glad none of my players want to do more than Adepts, maybe a mystic adept for Heal and maybe Manabolt -.-;;


Edit: Also, an idea to play with. Super Bouncy Ball. Terminal Velocity levitation to inside some one's heavy armored APC, like through an open hatch. Anchoring Metamagic to do Powerball after five minutes (or time expected to stop moving).

Nasty. I like it!

Well, just another example of why "Geek The Mage" is the first rule of combat.

And Greg has no armour except for the spell. Squishy Mage!

A mage character in one my groups recently had related fun. We were about to be attacked by a helicopter borne assault squad. As the vehicle lands and the squad jumps out, the mage levitated them up one meter. The GM ruled the helicopter blade to be instant death.

The collision rules deal with a body amplifier in terms of doing damage, so whatever the ladies body was an how fast the GM decides she is falling would tell you how much damage she does to the car and if she is a pancake or not. The collision rules are just well... don't even want to get into it.

And if you read my post Heath you would notice that since the rules do not mention all the technicalities going from 0 to 120 w/o harming your character using levitate seems to be allowed as far as I can tell. The minute they say you can't then I guess it's worth talking about, since no one probably wants a physics lecture.

My combat mage in a game I play was waiting to meet the party in a park that he was unaware was controlled by a very low rent gang. He was wearing a Mortimer of London Greatcoat and no obvious weapons or magic. They assumed he was a pushover and two of them strolled up pistols out and said "Give us your coat... and your shoes." Initiative started, I won, and I Force 7 levitated (4 net successes) the more knowledgeable looking of the two of them up in the air and just glared at the other one, I intimidated him, and the young one ran and so I kept levitating the other guy till I couldn't see him anymore. Then when the rest of the team showed up, in my exuberance to meet them I "lost my concentration" and he fell some 600+meters and splattered everywhere. Start like you mean to go on, I always say.

Chris


EDIT: To clarify my ending statement, the next combat we got into involved me powerbolting two guys to death, and caused another guys MGL-12 full of frag's to go off with a fireball splattering him and the guy next to him all across the wall of the parking deck. He's more than a little crazy. Actually a twisted path Wiccan, convinced his Goddess speaks to him and directly controls his magic so much so he believes he is what comes around a la the Rule of Three. He believes if his spells work on someone then they deserve what is coming to them.