I cannot believe there aren't more Vietnam War RPGs or settings. In the first place, being a war where lots of different people did lots of widely different tasks (i.e. various roles in the military, journalists, the peanut gallery back in the US, etc etc etc.) it represents a very rich setting for running different types of RPG settings and characters. We can equally imagine a special forces campaign, a Army draftee campaign, a Marines campaign, a journalist campaign, or even a criminal campaign taking place in the seedy back alleys of Saigon. There is such a wealth of evocative material for players and gamemasters to draw on. There's extensive video footage of the Vietnam War, and also very innovative music from that time period, with many peices dealing directly with the subject matter of the ongoing war. I feel like the incorporation of period music, including protest music, can contribute greatly to making a campaign engrossing and immersive.
I also believe it would be correct to say that even today, the Vietnam War affects the lives of most Americans. The conflict between the social and cultural movements of the 1960s and those who opposed them in many ways were made manifest by social conflict within the United States over the Vietnam War, and the current ongoing cultural war and growing divide in the United States between liberals and conservatives can be traced directly back to the original conflicts created by fundamental disagreements over the appropriateness of the Vietnam War and the proper role of the individual American in relation to the Vietnam War. The conflict between liberals and conservatives continues to grow more vehement and venemous and one gets the impression that many older Americans still exhibit extreme emotional reactions over the Vietnam-related issues of yesteryear.
All this means that there is so much background material that could be incorporated into character backgrounds in a Vietnam War RPG setting. Rather than character backgrounds being entirely fabricated through imagination as they would have to be for a pure fantasy setting with no basis in reality, there are a wealth of real peoples' backgrounds and reactions in the context of the Vietnam War which would form a very rich and well developed base for Vietnam War RPG characters.
In terms of hack-and-slash and tactics it's hard to imagine a romp more fun than the Vietnam War, except perhaps World War II. Vietnam era weaponry in and of itself is iconic; white phosphorous, M16A1s, AK47s, claymore mines, agent orange, and M60 machineguns with overheating barrels. Electronics and computer systems by and large hadn't stepped in to the extent they have today and weapons systems still had something of the operatic World War II quality to them.
They also had C rations. Personally I'm fascinated by C rations. When I was in the FSM there was a washed up elderly skinny veteran and I asked him all about C rations, and about the P38 can opener.
In short, I can't believe that RPGs are not all over the Vietnam War.
Full Version: I cannot believe there aren't more Vietnam War RPGs
The only one that comes to mind is the Recon RPG. I remember getting that and the Laos expansion back in the day. Although it really only dealt with LRRP/SOG type units.
But I played that so long ago I do not even remember the mechanics.
But I played that so long ago I do not even remember the mechanics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight_2000
or maybe the merc 2000 variant should probably do the trick.
or maybe the merc 2000 variant should probably do the trick.
I wonder how much it has to do with "Too close in recent history" as well as "The outcome wasn't as positive".
Its kinda odd, but Vietnam still has a wierd vibe here in the US. Its odd because when you look at other stuff: Any game that lets you fight Russians (Cold War era) or "Terrorists", or even the old standbys of German Nazis, you'd think the gaming industry isn't really that oriented to being sensitive to other cultures, but then you note that at least until recently WW2 games didn't really have FPS "shoot up Japanese soldiers", or shoot-up asians soldiers of anytype actually. I can't recall the last FPS that faced you against Japanese, Korean or Chinese soldiers.
Mercenaries/Mercenaries 2 is the closest I've seen to a game that lets you blow up soldiers that aren't just European ones.
Its kinda odd, but Vietnam still has a wierd vibe here in the US. Its odd because when you look at other stuff: Any game that lets you fight Russians (Cold War era) or "Terrorists", or even the old standbys of German Nazis, you'd think the gaming industry isn't really that oriented to being sensitive to other cultures, but then you note that at least until recently WW2 games didn't really have FPS "shoot up Japanese soldiers", or shoot-up asians soldiers of anytype actually. I can't recall the last FPS that faced you against Japanese, Korean or Chinese soldiers.
Mercenaries/Mercenaries 2 is the closest I've seen to a game that lets you blow up soldiers that aren't just European ones.
http://www.rjsmith.com/vietnam-era-music.html
Wow, check it out! Someone put up a list of Vietnam era music. If I had unlimited money I'd release a Vietnam War RPG and it would come with a CD full of musical selections from a list like this.
In "The Last Months In Vietnam" Operation Flashpoint campaign, one of the more difficult levels actually had "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" playing as you rode in the helicopter to the insertion point. It was pretty badass, and because I kept dying so many times I ended up hearing that song quite a few times...
Wow, check it out! Someone put up a list of Vietnam era music. If I had unlimited money I'd release a Vietnam War RPG and it would come with a CD full of musical selections from a list like this.
QUOTE
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1965
1. Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire
2. Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys
3. You Were On My Mind - We Five
4. The In Crowd - The Ramsey Lewis Trio
5. Like a Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan
6. Help - The Beatles
7. Unchained Melody - The Righteous Brothers
8. Catch Us If You Can - The Dave Clark Five
9. Yesterday - The Beatles
10. I Got You Babe - Sonny & Cher
11. It Ain't Me Babe - The Turtles
12. California Girls - The Beach Boys
13. Tracks of My Tears - The Miracles
14. Papa's Got a Brand New Bag - James Brown
15. Baby Don't Go - Sonny & Cher
16. Some Enchanted Evening - Jay & the Americans
17. Action - Freddy Cannon
18. We Gotta Get Out of This Place - The Animals
19. You've Got Your Troubles - The Fortunes
20. Baby I'm Yours - Barbara Lewis
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1966
1. Cherish - The Association
2. You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes
3. Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops
4. Yellow Submarine - The Beatles
5. Sunshine Superman - Donovan
6. Black Is Black - Los Bravos
7. 96 Tears - ? (Question Mark) & the Mysterians
8. Mr. Dieingly Sad - The Critters
9. Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations
10. Bus Stop - The Hollies
11. I've Got You Under My Skin - The 4 Seasons
12. See You In September - The Happenings
13. Wouldn't It Be Nice - The Beach Boys
14. Cherry, Cherry - Neil Diamond
15. Wipe Out - The Surfaris
16. Guantanamera - The Sandpipers
17. Sunny - Bobby Hebb
18. Born Free - Roger Williams
19. Walk Away Renee - The Left Banke
20. Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1967
1. The Letter - The Box Tops
2. To Sir With Love - Lulu
3. Ode to Billie Joe - Bobbie Gentry
4. Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie - Jay & the Techniques
5. Never My Love - The Association
6. How Can I Be Sure - The Young Rascals
7. Come Back When You Grow Up - Bobby Vee
8. Dandelion - The Rolling Stones
9. Reflections - Diana Ross & the Supremes
10. Expressway to Your Heart - The Soul Survivors
11. You're My Everything - The Temptations
12. Higher and Higher - Jackie Wilson
13. Funky Broadway - Wilson Pickett
14. (I Wanna) Testify - The Parliaments
15. People Are Strange - The Doors
16. Gimme Little Sign - Brenton Wood
17. I Dig Rock and Roll Music - Peter, Paul & Mary
18. San Franciscan Nights - Eric Burdon & the Animals
19. All You Need Is Love - The Beatles
20. Hey Baby (They're Playing Our Song) - The Buckinghams
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1968
1. Hey Jude - The Beatles
2. Hush - Deep Purple
3. Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley
4. 1, 2, 3, Red Light - The 1910 Fruitgum Company
5. People Got to Be Free - The Rascals
6. Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano
7. The Fool On the Hill - Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66
8. Born to Be Wild - Steppenwolf
9. Girl Watcher - The O'Kaysions
10. I've Gotta Get a Message to You - The Bee Gees
11. Do It Again - The Beach Boys
12. Slip Away - Clarence Carter
13. Say It Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud - James Brown
14. My Special Angel - The Vogues
15. You're All I Need to Get By - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell
16. Sunshine of Your Love - Cream
17. Little Green Apples - O.C. Smith
18. Revolution - The Beatles
19. Time Has Come Today - The Chambers Brothers
20. Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1969
1. Sugar, Sugar - The Archies
2. Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones
3. Jean - Oliver
4. I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Tom Jones
5. Easy to Be Hard - Three Dog Night
6. Get Together - The Youngbloods
7. I Can't Get Next to You - The Temptations
8. A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash
9. Little Woman - Bobby Sherman
10. Green River - Creedence Clearwater Revival
11. Hot Fun in the Summertime - Sly & the Family Stone
12. Sweet Caroline - Neil Diamond
13. Hurt So Bad - The Lettermen
14. Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan
15. Oh, What a Night - The Dells
16. This Girl Is a Woman Now - Gary Puckett & the Union Gap
17. I'd Wait a Million Years - The Grass Roots
18. When I Die - Motherlode
19. Everybody's Talkin' - Nilsson
20. Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1970
1. Patches - Clarence Carter
2. Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Diana Ross
3. Candida - Dawn
4. Julie, Do Ya Love Me - Bobby Sherman
5. Cracklin' Rosie - Neil Diamond
6. Don't Play That Song - Aretha Franklin
7. Lookin' Out My Back Door - Creedence Clearwater Revival
8. Snowbird - Anne Murray
9. War - Edwin Starr
10. I'll Be There - The Jackson 5
11. It's a Shame - The Spinners
12. Spill the Wine - Eric Burdon & War
13. Groovy Situation - Gene Chandler
14. In the Summertime - Mungo Jerry
15. (They Long to Be) Close to You - The Carpenters
16. El Condor Pasa - Simon & Garfunkel
17. (I Know) I'm Losing You - Rare Earth
18. 25 or 6 to 4 - Chicago
19. Look What They've Done to My Song Ma - The New Seekers
20. All Right Now - Free
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1971
1. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey - Paul & Linda McCartney
2. Maggie May - Rod Stewart
3. Go Away Little Girl - Donny Osmond
4. Superstar - The Carpenters
5. Spanish Harlem - Aretha Franklin
6. The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - Joan Baez
7. Ain't No Sunshine - Bill Withers
8. Smiling Faces Sometimes - The Undisputed Truth
9. Thin Line Between Love and Hate - The Persuaders
10. Whatcha See Is Whatcha Get - The Dramatics
11. If You Really Love Me - Stevie Wonder
12. Take Me Home, Country Roads - John Denver
13. How Can You Mend a Broken Heart - The Bee Gees
14. I Just Want to Celebrate - Rare Earth
15. All Day Music - War
16. So Far Away - Carole King
17. Yo-Yo - The Osmonds
18. Sweet City Woman - The Stampeders
19. One Fine Morning - Lighthouse
20. Imagine - John Lennon
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1972
1. Black and White - Three Dog Night
2. Back Stabbers - The O'Jays
3. Baby Don't Get Hooked On Me - Mac Davis
4. Saturday In the Park - Chicago
5. Everybody Plays the Fool - The Main Ingredient
6. Go All the Way - The Raspberries
7. Alone Again (Naturally) - Gilbert O'Sullivan
8. Rock and Roll Part 2 - Gary Glitter
9. Beautiful Sunday - Daniel Boone
10. Ben - Michael Jackson
11. The Guitar Man - Bread
12. Freddie's Dead - Curtis Mayfield
13. Nights in White Satin - The Moody Blues
14. Run to Me - The Bee Gees
15. Use Me - Bill Withers
16. Honky Cat - Elton John
17. Burning Love - Elvis Presley
18. Popcorn - Hot Butter
19. I'll Be Around - The Spinners
20. My Ding-a-Ling - Chuck Berry
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1973
1. Brother Louie - The Stories
2. Say, Has Anybody Seen My Sweet Gypsy Rose - Tony Orlando
3. Let's Get It On - Marvin Gaye
4. Delta Dawn - Helen Reddy
5. We're an American Band - Grand Funk
6. Half-Breed - Cher
7. Higher Ground - Stevie Wonder
8. Loves Me Like a Rock - Paul Simon
9. That Lady, Part 1 - The Isley Brothers
10. Angie - The Rolling Stones
11. Touch Me In the Morning - Diana Ross
12. Ramblin Man - The Allman Brothers Band
13. Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting - Elton John
14. Keep On Truckin' - Eddie Kendricks
15. China Grove - The Doobie Brothers
16. My Maria - B.W. Stevenson
17. Free Ride - The Edgar Winter Group
18. Midnight Train to Georgia - Gladys Knight & the Pips
19. All I Know - Garfunkel
20. Top of the World - The Carpenters
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1974
1. Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe - Barry White
2. I Shot the Sheriff - Eric Clapton
3. I Honestly Love You - Olivia Newton-John
4. (You're) Having My Baby - Paul Anka
5. Then Came You - Dionne Warwicke & the Spinners
6. Nothing From Nothing - Billy Preston
7. Rock Me Gently - Andy Kim
8. You Haven't Done Nothin' - Stevie Wonder
9. Beach Baby - First Class
10. Tell Me Something Good - Rufus
11. The Night Chicago Died - Paper Lace
12. I'm Leaving It (All) Up to You - Donny & Marie Osmond
13. Another Saturday Night - Cat Stevens
14. Do It ('Til You're Satisfied) - B.T. Express
15. Skin Tight - The Ohio Players
16. Can't Get Enough - Bad Company
17. You Little Trustmaker - The Tymes
18. Jazzman - Carole King
19. Sweet Home Alabama - Lynyrd Skynyrd
20. Life Is a Rock (But the Radio Rolled Me) - Reunion
1. Eve of Destruction - Barry McGuire
2. Hang On Sloopy - The McCoys
3. You Were On My Mind - We Five
4. The In Crowd - The Ramsey Lewis Trio
5. Like a Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan
6. Help - The Beatles
7. Unchained Melody - The Righteous Brothers
8. Catch Us If You Can - The Dave Clark Five
9. Yesterday - The Beatles
10. I Got You Babe - Sonny & Cher
11. It Ain't Me Babe - The Turtles
12. California Girls - The Beach Boys
13. Tracks of My Tears - The Miracles
14. Papa's Got a Brand New Bag - James Brown
15. Baby Don't Go - Sonny & Cher
16. Some Enchanted Evening - Jay & the Americans
17. Action - Freddy Cannon
18. We Gotta Get Out of This Place - The Animals
19. You've Got Your Troubles - The Fortunes
20. Baby I'm Yours - Barbara Lewis
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1966
1. Cherish - The Association
2. You Can't Hurry Love - The Supremes
3. Reach Out I'll Be There - The Four Tops
4. Yellow Submarine - The Beatles
5. Sunshine Superman - Donovan
6. Black Is Black - Los Bravos
7. 96 Tears - ? (Question Mark) & the Mysterians
8. Mr. Dieingly Sad - The Critters
9. Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - The Temptations
10. Bus Stop - The Hollies
11. I've Got You Under My Skin - The 4 Seasons
12. See You In September - The Happenings
13. Wouldn't It Be Nice - The Beach Boys
14. Cherry, Cherry - Neil Diamond
15. Wipe Out - The Surfaris
16. Guantanamera - The Sandpipers
17. Sunny - Bobby Hebb
18. Born Free - Roger Williams
19. Walk Away Renee - The Left Banke
20. Sunny Afternoon - The Kinks
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1967
1. The Letter - The Box Tops
2. To Sir With Love - Lulu
3. Ode to Billie Joe - Bobbie Gentry
4. Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie - Jay & the Techniques
5. Never My Love - The Association
6. How Can I Be Sure - The Young Rascals
7. Come Back When You Grow Up - Bobby Vee
8. Dandelion - The Rolling Stones
9. Reflections - Diana Ross & the Supremes
10. Expressway to Your Heart - The Soul Survivors
11. You're My Everything - The Temptations
12. Higher and Higher - Jackie Wilson
13. Funky Broadway - Wilson Pickett
14. (I Wanna) Testify - The Parliaments
15. People Are Strange - The Doors
16. Gimme Little Sign - Brenton Wood
17. I Dig Rock and Roll Music - Peter, Paul & Mary
18. San Franciscan Nights - Eric Burdon & the Animals
19. All You Need Is Love - The Beatles
20. Hey Baby (They're Playing Our Song) - The Buckinghams
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1968
1. Hey Jude - The Beatles
2. Hush - Deep Purple
3. Harper Valley P.T.A. - Jeannie C. Riley
4. 1, 2, 3, Red Light - The 1910 Fruitgum Company
5. People Got to Be Free - The Rascals
6. Light My Fire - Jose Feliciano
7. The Fool On the Hill - Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66
8. Born to Be Wild - Steppenwolf
9. Girl Watcher - The O'Kaysions
10. I've Gotta Get a Message to You - The Bee Gees
11. Do It Again - The Beach Boys
12. Slip Away - Clarence Carter
13. Say It Loud - I'm Black and I'm Proud - James Brown
14. My Special Angel - The Vogues
15. You're All I Need to Get By - Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell
16. Sunshine of Your Love - Cream
17. Little Green Apples - O.C. Smith
18. Revolution - The Beatles
19. Time Has Come Today - The Chambers Brothers
20. Fire - The Crazy World of Arthur Brown
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1969
1. Sugar, Sugar - The Archies
2. Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones
3. Jean - Oliver
4. I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Tom Jones
5. Easy to Be Hard - Three Dog Night
6. Get Together - The Youngbloods
7. I Can't Get Next to You - The Temptations
8. A Boy Named Sue - Johnny Cash
9. Little Woman - Bobby Sherman
10. Green River - Creedence Clearwater Revival
11. Hot Fun in the Summertime - Sly & the Family Stone
12. Sweet Caroline - Neil Diamond
13. Hurt So Bad - The Lettermen
14. Lay Lady Lay - Bob Dylan
15. Oh, What a Night - The Dells
16. This Girl Is a Woman Now - Gary Puckett & the Union Gap
17. I'd Wait a Million Years - The Grass Roots
18. When I Die - Motherlode
19. Everybody's Talkin' - Nilsson
20. Suspicious Minds - Elvis Presley
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1970
1. Patches - Clarence Carter
2. Ain't No Mountain High Enough - Diana Ross
3. Candida - Dawn
4. Julie, Do Ya Love Me - Bobby Sherman
5. Cracklin' Rosie - Neil Diamond
6. Don't Play That Song - Aretha Franklin
7. Lookin' Out My Back Door - Creedence Clearwater Revival
8. Snowbird - Anne Murray
9. War - Edwin Starr
10. I'll Be There - The Jackson 5
11. It's a Shame - The Spinners
12. Spill the Wine - Eric Burdon & War
13. Groovy Situation - Gene Chandler
14. In the Summertime - Mungo Jerry
15. (They Long to Be) Close to You - The Carpenters
16. El Condor Pasa - Simon & Garfunkel
17. (I Know) I'm Losing You - Rare Earth
18. 25 or 6 to 4 - Chicago
19. Look What They've Done to My Song Ma - The New Seekers
20. All Right Now - Free
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1971
1. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey - Paul & Linda McCartney
2. Maggie May - Rod Stewart
3. Go Away Little Girl - Donny Osmond
4. Superstar - The Carpenters
5. Spanish Harlem - Aretha Franklin
6. The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down - Joan Baez
7. Ain't No Sunshine - Bill Withers
8. Smiling Faces Sometimes - The Undisputed Truth
9. Thin Line Between Love and Hate - The Persuaders
10. Whatcha See Is Whatcha Get - The Dramatics
11. If You Really Love Me - Stevie Wonder
12. Take Me Home, Country Roads - John Denver
13. How Can You Mend a Broken Heart - The Bee Gees
14. I Just Want to Celebrate - Rare Earth
15. All Day Music - War
16. So Far Away - Carole King
17. Yo-Yo - The Osmonds
18. Sweet City Woman - The Stampeders
19. One Fine Morning - Lighthouse
20. Imagine - John Lennon
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1972
1. Black and White - Three Dog Night
2. Back Stabbers - The O'Jays
3. Baby Don't Get Hooked On Me - Mac Davis
4. Saturday In the Park - Chicago
5. Everybody Plays the Fool - The Main Ingredient
6. Go All the Way - The Raspberries
7. Alone Again (Naturally) - Gilbert O'Sullivan
8. Rock and Roll Part 2 - Gary Glitter
9. Beautiful Sunday - Daniel Boone
10. Ben - Michael Jackson
11. The Guitar Man - Bread
12. Freddie's Dead - Curtis Mayfield
13. Nights in White Satin - The Moody Blues
14. Run to Me - The Bee Gees
15. Use Me - Bill Withers
16. Honky Cat - Elton John
17. Burning Love - Elvis Presley
18. Popcorn - Hot Butter
19. I'll Be Around - The Spinners
20. My Ding-a-Ling - Chuck Berry
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1973
1. Brother Louie - The Stories
2. Say, Has Anybody Seen My Sweet Gypsy Rose - Tony Orlando
3. Let's Get It On - Marvin Gaye
4. Delta Dawn - Helen Reddy
5. We're an American Band - Grand Funk
6. Half-Breed - Cher
7. Higher Ground - Stevie Wonder
8. Loves Me Like a Rock - Paul Simon
9. That Lady, Part 1 - The Isley Brothers
10. Angie - The Rolling Stones
11. Touch Me In the Morning - Diana Ross
12. Ramblin Man - The Allman Brothers Band
13. Saturday Night's Alright For Fighting - Elton John
14. Keep On Truckin' - Eddie Kendricks
15. China Grove - The Doobie Brothers
16. My Maria - B.W. Stevenson
17. Free Ride - The Edgar Winter Group
18. Midnight Train to Georgia - Gladys Knight & the Pips
19. All I Know - Garfunkel
20. Top of the World - The Carpenters
The Top 20 As Of September 20th, 1974
1. Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe - Barry White
2. I Shot the Sheriff - Eric Clapton
3. I Honestly Love You - Olivia Newton-John
4. (You're) Having My Baby - Paul Anka
5. Then Came You - Dionne Warwicke & the Spinners
6. Nothing From Nothing - Billy Preston
7. Rock Me Gently - Andy Kim
8. You Haven't Done Nothin' - Stevie Wonder
9. Beach Baby - First Class
10. Tell Me Something Good - Rufus
11. The Night Chicago Died - Paper Lace
12. I'm Leaving It (All) Up to You - Donny & Marie Osmond
13. Another Saturday Night - Cat Stevens
14. Do It ('Til You're Satisfied) - B.T. Express
15. Skin Tight - The Ohio Players
16. Can't Get Enough - Bad Company
17. You Little Trustmaker - The Tymes
18. Jazzman - Carole King
19. Sweet Home Alabama - Lynyrd Skynyrd
20. Life Is a Rock (But the Radio Rolled Me) - Reunion
In "The Last Months In Vietnam" Operation Flashpoint campaign, one of the more difficult levels actually had "We Gotta Get Out Of This Place" playing as you rode in the helicopter to the insertion point. It was pretty badass, and because I kept dying so many times I ended up hearing that song quite a few times...
Did you ever play Battlefield: Vietnam?
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
Here is my experience in the last quarter century of playing RPGs... people (in general) dont like to play something that is too close to real life. They want to stretch their minds into thinking that this distant, not realistic alternate universe is what they want be in. Most fantasy is from the middle ages (duh!) but has dragons, elves, magic, and all this stuff that doesnt exist today. The SciFi side of the house, generally has similar things too. The only modern day (give/take 20 years) games that I know of is Recon (which I have played many times) and SpyCraft (or something to that effect - d20 system). I know there is probably more. As for Twilight_2000, that was a future-istic type game when it came out. Late 80s and stopped in the early 90s. But I guess on my specs that would be in the same grouping. So three out of how many RPGs out there?
Now I have played in a game that the GM wrote that was modern day. They would take RoleMaster/SpaceMaster (combined) and make a modern day version of the game but with magic. Or several D20 systems and merge them into a single game. Again today + magic.
as for Recon... we used to call it disposable heroes since characters are squishy. there are only 3 stats, no of which is intelligence (related). easy come and easy go. character creation once you got a hold of it was sub-10 minutes including all gear, history, names, etc.
I have read spycraft (or whatever the name is), never played it.
I have seen twilight_2000 being played (at a con) but never got the chance to play.
now for playing some sort of modern day game without magic (or with magic), take a game system that you know and mod it game. If you know D20, there is many books out there that can help. Modern day firearms book in D20 stats, etc. If you want to use SR4, you can if you take out the cyber/bioware/magic/etc. You can use the mechanics of the game, just a different set of skills/gear. or just modify the hell out of them. It just depends on how realistic you want to make it.
Now I have played in a game that the GM wrote that was modern day. They would take RoleMaster/SpaceMaster (combined) and make a modern day version of the game but with magic. Or several D20 systems and merge them into a single game. Again today + magic.
as for Recon... we used to call it disposable heroes since characters are squishy. there are only 3 stats, no of which is intelligence (related). easy come and easy go. character creation once you got a hold of it was sub-10 minutes including all gear, history, names, etc.
I have read spycraft (or whatever the name is), never played it.
I have seen twilight_2000 being played (at a con) but never got the chance to play.
now for playing some sort of modern day game without magic (or with magic), take a game system that you know and mod it game. If you know D20, there is many books out there that can help. Modern day firearms book in D20 stats, etc. If you want to use SR4, you can if you take out the cyber/bioware/magic/etc. You can use the mechanics of the game, just a different set of skills/gear. or just modify the hell out of them. It just depends on how realistic you want to make it.
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Sep 6 2008, 12:28 PM) 
Did you ever play Battlefield: Vietnam?
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
I was under the impression that Battlefield: Vietnam is multiplayer only? Is that correct?
no I recall playing singal player.
QUOTE (Dumori @ Sep 6 2008, 09:28 PM)
no I recall playing singal player.
In that case, I'll probably get a secondhand copy from amazon.com. I'd actually been holding off on buying the whole Battlefield series since I thought it was multiplayer only, whereas I usually prefer single player so that I can enjoy the scripting and game world the game designers have put together.
Actually, does anyone have any recommendations on whether Vietcong was a good game? How realistic was it? I might also get that off amazon.com.
WR
You may find the book Devil's Guard of interest if you can locate a copy.
Devil's Guard
I have read the first but been unable to read the following in the series?
The copy I read of the first in the series was signed by the author, and the owner of that copy knew the author personally.
WMS
You may find the book Devil's Guard of interest if you can locate a copy.
Devil's Guard
I have read the first but been unable to read the following in the series?
The copy I read of the first in the series was signed by the author, and the owner of that copy knew the author personally.
WMS
QUOTE (Voran @ Sep 6 2008, 05:59 AM)
I wonder how much it has to do with "Too close in recent history" as well as "The outcome wasn't as positive".
Its kinda odd, but Vietnam still has a wierd vibe here in the US. Its odd because when you look at other stuff: Any game that lets you fight Russians (Cold War era) or "Terrorists", or even the old standbys of German Nazis, you'd think the gaming industry isn't really that oriented to being sensitive to other cultures, but then you note that at least until recently WW2 games didn't really have FPS "shoot up Japanese soldiers", or shoot-up asians soldiers of anytype actually. I can't recall the last FPS that faced you against Japanese, Korean or Chinese soldiers.
Mercenaries/Mercenaries 2 is the closest I've seen to a game that lets you blow up soldiers that aren't just European ones.
Its kinda odd, but Vietnam still has a wierd vibe here in the US. Its odd because when you look at other stuff: Any game that lets you fight Russians (Cold War era) or "Terrorists", or even the old standbys of German Nazis, you'd think the gaming industry isn't really that oriented to being sensitive to other cultures, but then you note that at least until recently WW2 games didn't really have FPS "shoot up Japanese soldiers", or shoot-up asians soldiers of anytype actually. I can't recall the last FPS that faced you against Japanese, Korean or Chinese soldiers.
Mercenaries/Mercenaries 2 is the closest I've seen to a game that lets you blow up soldiers that aren't just European ones.
Well there was:
Medal of Honor: Rising Sun - WWII Pacific
Conflict Vietnam
Men of Valor (Vietnam)
Just off the top of my head.
The Battlefield series can be played Single Player, but then you are playing the same stuff (capture the points) as you would in Multiplayer, except with crappy bots instead of real people. Multiplayer is a much better experinece, but I doubt anyone really plays BF:V anymore.
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Sep 7 2008, 04:39 PM)
The Battlefield series can be played Single Player, but then you are playing the same stuff (capture the points) as you would in Multiplayer, except with crappy bots instead of real people. Multiplayer is a much better experinece, but I doubt anyone really plays BF:V anymore.
Ah, see, there's the rub.
really I though BF:V had signal player with a campaign. I know that the earlyer BF game had singal player BF:2142 is multi only. I know BF:V for the Xbox and singal player.
I guess american game developers are a little worried that and RPG set in Vietnam would be seen as insensitive (wether it actually is or not). As to non-american game developers, it possibly just doesn't seem all that interesting. It seems like the western countries other than the U.S. don't tend to pay it anywhere near as much thought.
At least, that's the impression I get in southeastern Australia, anyway.
At least, that's the impression I get in southeastern Australia, anyway.
QUOTE (Platinum Dragon @ Sep 10 2008, 03:38 AM)
I guess american game developers are a little worried that and RPG set in Vietnam would be seen as insensitive (wether it actually is or not). As to non-american game developers, it possibly just doesn't seem all that interesting. It seems like the western countries other than the U.S. don't tend to pay it anywhere near as much thought.
At least, that's the impression I get in southeastern Australia, anyway.
At least, that's the impression I get in southeastern Australia, anyway.
It's possible. In my experience one of the most satisfying Vietnam War games I've ever played, Line of Sight: Vietnam was a smaller release, even though it was ultra-awesome. A smaller studio might not be as worried about lasting PR damage. Also, the manual that came with the game was probably more pro-military when it told the backstory of the main character, since it specifies he got spit on by hippies, felt very motivated to go and perform special operations on the border of Laos after having returned to the US and after having felt out of place due to his prior experience in 'Nam, and things like that.
if i where to guess, vietnam showed that usa could actually loose.
until then its been two world wars that was won by the usa allied side, and the korean war where things where worn down to a stale mate.
vietnam on the other hand was more or less retreated from and abandoned.
until then its been two world wars that was won by the usa allied side, and the korean war where things where worn down to a stale mate.
vietnam on the other hand was more or less retreated from and abandoned.
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 11 2008, 05:29 PM)
if i where to guess, vietnam showed that usa could actually loose.
until then its been two world wars that was won by the usa allied side, and the korean war where things where worn down to a stale mate.
vietnam on the other hand was more or less retreated from and abandoned.
until then its been two world wars that was won by the usa allied side, and the korean war where things where worn down to a stale mate.
vietnam on the other hand was more or less retreated from and abandoned.
Those are reasonable statements, but how would that affect the existence or non-existence of Vietnam War RPGs?
nobody feels like writing one where all you get is to be shot to bits and shipped home to be forgotten?
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Sep 6 2008, 11:28 AM)
Did you ever play Battlefield: Vietnam?
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
Buggy game with lots of problems, but damn was it cool to ride a chopper to a hotzone with the pilot blasting out vietnam tunes.
Did ya ever play the Battlefield 1942, Vietnam mod (before BF:V ever came out)? I forget the name to the mod but it was interesting, spent quite a few hours playing that mod. Can remember getting shot up before the chinook took off in those one maps *sigh*
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Sep 14 2008, 08:47 PM)
nobody feels like writing one where all you get is to be shot to bits and shipped home to be forgotten?
"What's the button to watch your best friend die, get hooked on drugs, and then return home to a country that hates you?"
There were several Vietnam War table-top games including Flashpoint Vietnam, Grunt, Hue, and Search & Destroy: Tactical Combat Vietnam 1965-1966 created in the 1970s and 1980s. Recon's the only RPG though it was created to be used with minis as well.
Vietnam was such a political and social clusterfuck for the US that to create an actual role-playing game based around it would be a hard sell. Even a World War 2 RPG game would be a tough one. Most RPGs are based around the idea of heroes vs. villains. The participants in real-life wars aren't so easy to break down into those particular categories, especially at the grunt level.
I think the words 'political and social clusterfuck' neatly sum up the point I was trying to make.
I think it's just one of those things the US wants to forget (kinda like WW2 for Japan), though as time goes on people will regain an interest in it since it will feel less personal.
I think it's just one of those things the US wants to forget (kinda like WW2 for Japan), though as time goes on people will regain an interest in it since it will feel less personal.
and thats partially why people that dont learn from history is doomed to repeat history...
the other part is the hubris of youth, trying to prove that one can do what ones elders could not...
the other part is the hubris of youth, trying to prove that one can do what ones elders could not...
I guess I'm just unusual in the stuff that interests me. "Political and social clusterfuck which people are still butthert over and which has laid the foundations for the modern American 'culture war'" sounds like something awesome to study, have opinions on, and write RPG rules for so that we can all play. Truth is stranger than fiction and I just feel like there'd be a lot more to play with there than with, say, elves in a forest that a fantasy author made up such that their existence is basically limited by that author's own personal imagination. There'd just be so much more details and meat from a complex situation in the real world than what even the most gifted author could make up.
Abolutely, but most people won't see eye-to-eye with you on that one. =P
Personally, I prefer the escapism of playing in fantasy / sci-fi over more realistic present-day settings. I just don't find the real world as interesting as made-up ones.
Personally, I prefer the escapism of playing in fantasy / sci-fi over more realistic present-day settings. I just don't find the real world as interesting as made-up ones.
Hmm, that actually reminds me of a recent article in The Economist that was talking about how Iraq War films are systematically failing at the box office. Nobody is interested in an unpopular war, it seems. That probably goes for games too then.
I'd also be inclined to believe that Iraq War films are systematically failing at the box office because they're all the same. "Rah-Rah! America!" or "War is Hell". Boring and has been done to death or done better. See Three Kings.
While I don't think a Vietnam War RPG would make for a great game, a game set in that time period could be interesting. You could play a US Soldier, Black Panther Radical, Communist Fifth Columnist, Weather Underground Terrorist, Hippie Rocker, Violent Protester, Drug Guru, Eurotrash Government Agent, Redneck Sheriff... The Vietnam conflict could be one campaign setting to work with. But if the game setting was expanded to fit all the radical change that was occurring around the globe from between say 1965 and 1975, you could get some interesting stories out of it. The Munich Olympics murders in 1972 and the retaliation by the Mossad, Malcom X and the rise of the Nation of Islam, etc.
While I don't think a Vietnam War RPG would make for a great game, a game set in that time period could be interesting. You could play a US Soldier, Black Panther Radical, Communist Fifth Columnist, Weather Underground Terrorist, Hippie Rocker, Violent Protester, Drug Guru, Eurotrash Government Agent, Redneck Sheriff... The Vietnam conflict could be one campaign setting to work with. But if the game setting was expanded to fit all the radical change that was occurring around the globe from between say 1965 and 1975, you could get some interesting stories out of it. The Munich Olympics murders in 1972 and the retaliation by the Mossad, Malcom X and the rise of the Nation of Islam, etc.
QUOTE (Backgammon @ Sep 18 2008, 08:43 AM)
Hmm, that actually reminds me of a recent article in The Economist that was talking about how Iraq War films are systematically failing at the box office. Nobody is interested in an unpopular war, it seems. That probably goes for games too then.
Well, also, a lot of those films are crap. They basically repeat a lot of the literary themes from the Vietnam War, but repeat them poorly. Whereas in school today if you're lucky you can read some of the best cinemographic and literary commentary on the Vietnam War and it gets you all pumped, if you watch films coming out today about Iraq (I'm looking at you, Home Of The Brave), it seems like they're trying to do those Vietnam War stories again except the quality is a lot lower and the characters are not as well done.
(While I was in the Peace Corps I watched some of those films coming out due to boredom, which I probably wouldn't have watched in the US.)
One thing I've been looking up on YouTube every now and then are songs from the 60s and 70s which are related somehow to the Vietnam War. Then I found this version of Galveston which I thought was pretty cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaMf6ydI-YI&NR=1
There's Tour of Darkness for Savage Worlds, but yeah, it's more fantasy/alternate reality than it really is a Vietnam RPG. I haven't picked it up yet, so I can't say whether you could just take out the "alternate" stuff and have a Vietnam RPG, but I suppose it might be possible, since you can do that to Deadlands easily enough.
In your opinion, do you think that Deadlands would be mechanically better than SR3?
Just some more Vietnam War rocking out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs...feature=related
As I read more and more Vietnam War memoirs I learn that the Vietnam War was what it was. It was not the fairy tale version of it told retrospectively by either American political liberals or conservatives. The reality was much more nuanced and complex.
As I read more and more Vietnam War memoirs I learn that the Vietnam War was what it was. It was not the fairy tale version of it told retrospectively by either American political liberals or conservatives. The reality was much more nuanced and complex.
Heh, you do realize that the Vietnam War ended what was began by the Japanese in World War II. The Vietnamese fighting for the freedom to have a nation. Between Japan and America was the French.
Ages ago I ran a campaign set during the First Indochinese War it ran from September 2, 1945 from President Ho declaring independence for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, until March 1954, when the Viet Minh won the decisive victory against French forces at the gruelling Battle of Dien Bien Phu.
They were all French Foreign Legion soldiers. Most had fought during World War II in some capacity. The big problem was that most of the characters died quite quick. Only two players and characters of the original squad made it through to the end.
The problem I found was how much time it took for me to do research, how much detail I sunk in, and discovering how much it detracted from the game. It was not a fun game to play.
Ages ago I ran a campaign set during the First Indochinese War it ran from September 2, 1945 from President Ho declaring independence for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, until March 1954, when the Viet Minh won the decisive victory against French forces at the gruelling Battle of Dien Bien Phu.
They were all French Foreign Legion soldiers. Most had fought during World War II in some capacity. The big problem was that most of the characters died quite quick. Only two players and characters of the original squad made it through to the end.
The problem I found was how much time it took for me to do research, how much detail I sunk in, and discovering how much it detracted from the game. It was not a fun game to play.
Yes, Vietnam has a pretty badass history of military heroes and fighting against foreigners. IF you look at Vietnamese martial arts you can see some Chinese influence and of course at one point in history China was teabagging Vietnam like it did lots of places.
Anyway, I kind of think your players played their characters wrong. Anyone who survived combat in World War II was really fucking hard, given the incredible insanity-defying casualty counts coming out of that war and the tactics that were still centered around flinging lots of soldiers and really big bombs at the enemy. Anyone capable of surviving World War II should have at least a decent shot (relative to others, dumb luck nonwithstanding) of not dying over the course of a given Vietnam campaign IMO.
Anyway, I kind of think your players played their characters wrong. Anyone who survived combat in World War II was really fucking hard, given the incredible insanity-defying casualty counts coming out of that war and the tactics that were still centered around flinging lots of soldiers and really big bombs at the enemy. Anyone capable of surviving World War II should have at least a decent shot (relative to others, dumb luck nonwithstanding) of not dying over the course of a given Vietnam campaign IMO.
The players must be playing their characters wrong was amusing.
One died in an ambush as he assaulted a machinegun nest. One died when trying to rescue an officer whose jeep ran into a mine field. Another volunteered to jump with the paratroop battalion south of Dong Khe and work as a diversion. One character was retired due to battle fatigue (player left the city).
One died in an ambush as he assaulted a machinegun nest. One died when trying to rescue an officer whose jeep ran into a mine field. Another volunteered to jump with the paratroop battalion south of Dong Khe and work as a diversion. One character was retired due to battle fatigue (player left the city).
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jun 9 2009, 05:10 AM)
The players must be playing their characters wrong was amusing.
It's a cool thing to say in the context of RPGs.
QUOTE
One died in an ambush as he assaulted a machinegun nest. One died when trying to rescue an officer whose jeep ran into a mine field. Another volunteered to jump with the paratroop battalion south of Dong Khe and work as a diversion. One character was retired due to battle fatigue (player left the city).
That was some campaign.
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jun 9 2009, 01:11 AM)
Heh, you do realize that the Vietnam War ended what was began by the Japanese in World War II. The Vietnamese fighting for the freedom to have a nation. Between Japan and America was the French.
Ages ago I ran a campaign set during the First Indochinese War it ran from September 2, 1945 from President Ho declaring independence for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, until March 1954, when the Viet Minh won the decisive victory against French forces at the gruelling Battle of Dien Bien Phu.
They were all French Foreign Legion soldiers. Most had fought during World War II in some capacity. The big problem was that most of the characters died quite quick. Only two players and characters of the original squad made it through to the end.
The problem I found was how much time it took for me to do research, how much detail I sunk in, and discovering how much it detracted from the game. It was not a fun game to play.
Ages ago I ran a campaign set during the First Indochinese War it ran from September 2, 1945 from President Ho declaring independence for the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, until March 1954, when the Viet Minh won the decisive victory against French forces at the gruelling Battle of Dien Bien Phu.
They were all French Foreign Legion soldiers. Most had fought during World War II in some capacity. The big problem was that most of the characters died quite quick. Only two players and characters of the original squad made it through to the end.
The problem I found was how much time it took for me to do research, how much detail I sunk in, and discovering how much it detracted from the game. It was not a fun game to play.
Sounds interesting, what game system did you use?
Most Vietnam movies focus on the American aspect with a few references to the French bit in We Were Soldiers and Apocalypse Now IIRC (I didn't see Indochine). To reinvigorate the film genre we need a French 'Jean Rambo' figure, perhaps played by Chuck Norris with voice coaching from Steve Martin.
QUOTE (Link @ Jun 10 2009, 05:30 AM)
Sounds interesting, what game system did you use?
Most Vietnam movies focus on the American aspect with a few references to the French bit in We Were Soldiers and Apocalypse Now IIRC (I didn't see Indochine). To reinvigorate the film genre we need a French 'Jean Rambo' figure, perhaps played by Chuck Norris with voice coaching from Steve Martin.
Most Vietnam movies focus on the American aspect with a few references to the French bit in We Were Soldiers and Apocalypse Now IIRC (I didn't see Indochine). To reinvigorate the film genre we need a French 'Jean Rambo' figure, perhaps played by Chuck Norris with voice coaching from Steve Martin.
GURPS, since that was the best generic gaming system at the time.
Films:
The Quiet American
Diên Biên Phú
Le Crabe Tambour
Le Facteur s'en va en Guerre
Lost Command
La 317ème section
To be honest, I was not fascinated by the movies. I read memoirs.
Yeah, Indochine was pretty shoddy and typical effeminite French stuff. Honestly read real memoirs. Vietnam War memoirs kick so much ass I read them whenever I find them.
Interesting that you want the elements in a Vietnam war setting [military, civilian, political], but don't want those same elements in a WWII setting.
I think our games of WWII would be highly different.
I grew up in Rovaniemi one of the last major towns in Finland as you progress up north. When I was there it had been burned to the ground by the retreating German army. Feelings about Germans was highly negative in a city that only had one building standing after the Germans, and a lot of the area was still littered with WWII memorabilia. We used to collect spent cartridges and links. Occasionally someone found a real treasure like a 20mm cartridge, the best one was a friend of ours found an unspent grenade. We all crowded around to see what would happen when he pulled the pin. I mean if GI Joe uses them we would just need COBRA. Luckily his mother got suspicious when everyone went real silent in his room, stopped us midway and had the police come and remove the explosive device. We were told to hand over our collectibles.
My best friend's grandfather used to serve with the German army all the way to 1945. He came back to Finland in 1947 after being in an internment camp somewhere in west Europe. Won an iron cross too. He was a drunkard and only in the last years of his life did he start making airplanes again (before the war he had been an aircraft designer and continued his job for a while after the war). I know all of this only when he died and we were staying at his place for a week and I rummaged around his bookshelf.
My great uncle flew the flying coffin P-51 Mustangs during the Pacific campaign, while my grandfathers both served in the navy as engineers. One in U.S. submarines another as a volunteer in a submarine hunter in the Canadian navy attached to the British navy.
There was nothing fun about WWII and was not the cavalcade of the victorius American troops as they waltzed their way to Berlin that is the myth pumped out by Hollywood.
I grew up in Rovaniemi one of the last major towns in Finland as you progress up north. When I was there it had been burned to the ground by the retreating German army. Feelings about Germans was highly negative in a city that only had one building standing after the Germans, and a lot of the area was still littered with WWII memorabilia. We used to collect spent cartridges and links. Occasionally someone found a real treasure like a 20mm cartridge, the best one was a friend of ours found an unspent grenade. We all crowded around to see what would happen when he pulled the pin. I mean if GI Joe uses them we would just need COBRA. Luckily his mother got suspicious when everyone went real silent in his room, stopped us midway and had the police come and remove the explosive device. We were told to hand over our collectibles.
My best friend's grandfather used to serve with the German army all the way to 1945. He came back to Finland in 1947 after being in an internment camp somewhere in west Europe. Won an iron cross too. He was a drunkard and only in the last years of his life did he start making airplanes again (before the war he had been an aircraft designer and continued his job for a while after the war). I know all of this only when he died and we were staying at his place for a week and I rummaged around his bookshelf.
My great uncle flew the flying coffin P-51 Mustangs during the Pacific campaign, while my grandfathers both served in the navy as engineers. One in U.S. submarines another as a volunteer in a submarine hunter in the Canadian navy attached to the British navy.
There was nothing fun about WWII and was not the cavalcade of the victorius American troops as they waltzed their way to Berlin that is the myth pumped out by Hollywood.
War is hell, as they say. I guess thats why i cant find myself enjoying starship troopers for example...
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Jun 16 2009, 02:49 PM)
I think our games of WWII would be highly different.
I grew up in Rovaniemi one of the last major towns in Finland as you progress up north. When I was there it had been burned to the ground by the retreating German army. Feelings about Germans was highly negative in a city that only had one building standing after the Germans, and a lot of the area was still littered with WWII memorabilia. We used to collect spent cartridges and links. Occasionally someone found a real treasure like a 20mm cartridge, the best one was a friend of ours found an unspent grenade. We all crowded around to see what would happen when he pulled the pin. I mean if GI Joe uses them we would just need COBRA. Luckily his mother got suspicious when everyone went real silent in his room, stopped us midway and had the police come and remove the explosive device. We were told to hand over our collectibles.
My best friend's grandfather used to serve with the German army all the way to 1945. He came back to Finland in 1947 after being in an internment camp somewhere in west Europe. Won an iron cross too. He was a drunkard and only in the last years of his life did he start making airplanes again (before the war he had been an aircraft designer and continued his job for a while after the war). I know all of this only when he died and we were staying at his place for a week and I rummaged around his bookshelf.
My great uncle flew the flying coffin P-51 Mustangs during the Pacific campaign, while my grandfathers both served in the navy as engineers. One in U.S. submarines another as a volunteer in a submarine hunter in the Canadian navy attached to the British navy.
There was nothing fun about WWII and was not the cavalcade of the victorius American troops as they waltzed their way to Berlin that is the myth pumped out by Hollywood.
I grew up in Rovaniemi one of the last major towns in Finland as you progress up north. When I was there it had been burned to the ground by the retreating German army. Feelings about Germans was highly negative in a city that only had one building standing after the Germans, and a lot of the area was still littered with WWII memorabilia. We used to collect spent cartridges and links. Occasionally someone found a real treasure like a 20mm cartridge, the best one was a friend of ours found an unspent grenade. We all crowded around to see what would happen when he pulled the pin. I mean if GI Joe uses them we would just need COBRA. Luckily his mother got suspicious when everyone went real silent in his room, stopped us midway and had the police come and remove the explosive device. We were told to hand over our collectibles.
My best friend's grandfather used to serve with the German army all the way to 1945. He came back to Finland in 1947 after being in an internment camp somewhere in west Europe. Won an iron cross too. He was a drunkard and only in the last years of his life did he start making airplanes again (before the war he had been an aircraft designer and continued his job for a while after the war). I know all of this only when he died and we were staying at his place for a week and I rummaged around his bookshelf.
My great uncle flew the flying coffin P-51 Mustangs during the Pacific campaign, while my grandfathers both served in the navy as engineers. One in U.S. submarines another as a volunteer in a submarine hunter in the Canadian navy attached to the British navy.
There was nothing fun about WWII and was not the cavalcade of the victorius American troops as they waltzed their way to Berlin that is the myth pumped out by Hollywood.
But why do you assume that a RPG session dealing with World War II must necessarily be Hollywood style instead or historical style?
I would suggest Beyond Valor (Patrick O'donnel) as a good read to get an idea of what the combat was like. It is an oral history from some of the soldies who served in the paracorps and other elite units in WWII.
While were boastin, my grand father served in the 2nd Infantry division in WWII from Mid december 1944 to the end of the war. He went from belgium through germany and ended up meeting the russian in what is now ithe Czech republic.
While were boastin, my grand father served in the 2nd Infantry division in WWII from Mid december 1944 to the end of the war. He went from belgium through germany and ended up meeting the russian in what is now ithe Czech republic.
So, today I decided to go to http://www.ichiban1.org/html/music.htm and try to listen to all the #1 songs of the various years of the Vietnam era. I think part of me wishes to use Vietnam War resources created for the original Operation Flashpoint games to create a musical campaign or something.
Apparently the #1 song for 1960 is Theme From A Summer Place. Wow. Hard to imagine that as a #1 song. I guess that there is a lot that I have to culturally learn about the early 60s. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mERbQIvgJXs
The #1 song for 1961 is supposed to be Tossin' and Turnin'. I don't think it sounds very interesting musically but some of the lyrics suggest some things to me about lifestyles of the era. "The middle of the night" is described as being late in the context of the song. The song also references a milkman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFBvBmXv4E Personally I think Will You Love Me Tomorrow, at #7, is a much more emotionally and historically interesting song because it references recreational sex and therefore demarks something about the transition of recreational sex of being totally taboo to something you could apparently make a hit song about.
1962's # 1 song is Mashed Potato Time. I watched the video and it made my head explode. It seems really really sexual but in an under the table repressed way. The dancers seem to be doing everything they can to make their breasts rock hard up and down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQBKpV9emKc
Hilariously, I could only find the Japanese version of I Will Follow Him, which is the #1 song for 1963. Heh, even though I'm half Japanese, I don't really speak or understand Japanese, but her accent is probably ridiculous-sounding, since that's what usually happens when singers sing stuff in languages they don't understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-43tlrBoRk
1964 has Louis Armstrong Hello Dolly as #1. I would have guessed that it came chronologically earlier than some of the other songs I just referenced but I guess I would have been wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmfeKUNDDYs
1965 has Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones. I guess it was such a classic that they play it on the radio even now. It must have been so dynamic at the time given how old-fashioned the songs of preceeding years sound in comparison. Personally I like Paint It Black better but that's probably Kubrick's fault. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejtR81RzCo
What really amazes me is how in 1966 the #1 song was apparently The Ballad of The Green Beret. I think it's much more intelligent than a lot of contemporary country music dealing with the military. It's a cool song, but the fact that it was #1 for this year makes me wonder if 1966 was when the American public began to become more invested in the Vietnam War. Of course I've read a lot of history books but sometimes I wish I could go back in time just to observe how people spoke and acted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94
How the heck is To Sir WIth Love top song for 1967? I hear it and my brain shuts down due to boring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoFI7m-cjI
1968 - Hey Jude. Hmm, I don't know if I can have an opinion about The Beatles anymore. I have heard them too much on the radio and my brain kind of went numb to their sound. I think it's weird that people attribute all kinds of negative things to Yoko Ono over some silly experimental album.
1969 - Some song about the Age of Aquarius? In the first place, can someone explain to me what the Age of Aquarius is supposed to be? Secondly, watch the video because it's hilarious. How the hell did anyone ever take this song seriously? Holy holy holy crap, this is 1969 too. I can't imagine anyone playing this song or using it except out of irony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANwIgpha7k
1970 is Raindrops Keep Fallin On My Head. Why is that #1? It's mellow, I'll grant, but it's not that interesting. Maybe the general public likes mellow braindead stuff? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRsXHDYXafM
1971 has Joy To the World by Three Dog Night as #1? Is that some kind of direct statement about the war and how everyone should do peace and love or something? Holy crap, check out the long hair and the 'stache: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFypAB7nYGA
1972 is Gilbert O'Sullivan's Alone Again. This is another song I don't get. It just doesn't sound interesting or memorable to me so how could it be #1? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_P-v1BVQn8
1973 finally seems to have a #1 song that seems to deal explicitly with the Vietnam War. According to the website I'm going by this song marked the growth of public awareness about POW-MIA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NCZ4l8FCFc
Let's see, 1974's top song was...The Way We Were? I just realized I don't know anything about Barba Streisand except what South Park told me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-KPGh3wysw
The final year the page deals with is 1975. And the top song is...Rhinestone Cowboy? Well, I dunno. I guess it's a pretty catchy song. I mean I can't deny that it really sticks in your head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8wDhK5LyY
Apparently the #1 song for 1960 is Theme From A Summer Place. Wow. Hard to imagine that as a #1 song. I guess that there is a lot that I have to culturally learn about the early 60s. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mERbQIvgJXs
The #1 song for 1961 is supposed to be Tossin' and Turnin'. I don't think it sounds very interesting musically but some of the lyrics suggest some things to me about lifestyles of the era. "The middle of the night" is described as being late in the context of the song. The song also references a milkman. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghFBvBmXv4E Personally I think Will You Love Me Tomorrow, at #7, is a much more emotionally and historically interesting song because it references recreational sex and therefore demarks something about the transition of recreational sex of being totally taboo to something you could apparently make a hit song about.
1962's # 1 song is Mashed Potato Time. I watched the video and it made my head explode. It seems really really sexual but in an under the table repressed way. The dancers seem to be doing everything they can to make their breasts rock hard up and down. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQBKpV9emKc
Hilariously, I could only find the Japanese version of I Will Follow Him, which is the #1 song for 1963. Heh, even though I'm half Japanese, I don't really speak or understand Japanese, but her accent is probably ridiculous-sounding, since that's what usually happens when singers sing stuff in languages they don't understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-43tlrBoRk
1964 has Louis Armstrong Hello Dolly as #1. I would have guessed that it came chronologically earlier than some of the other songs I just referenced but I guess I would have been wrong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmfeKUNDDYs
1965 has Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones. I guess it was such a classic that they play it on the radio even now. It must have been so dynamic at the time given how old-fashioned the songs of preceeding years sound in comparison. Personally I like Paint It Black better but that's probably Kubrick's fault. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejtR81RzCo
What really amazes me is how in 1966 the #1 song was apparently The Ballad of The Green Beret. I think it's much more intelligent than a lot of contemporary country music dealing with the military. It's a cool song, but the fact that it was #1 for this year makes me wonder if 1966 was when the American public began to become more invested in the Vietnam War. Of course I've read a lot of history books but sometimes I wish I could go back in time just to observe how people spoke and acted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94
How the heck is To Sir WIth Love top song for 1967? I hear it and my brain shuts down due to boring. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoFI7m-cjI
1968 - Hey Jude. Hmm, I don't know if I can have an opinion about The Beatles anymore. I have heard them too much on the radio and my brain kind of went numb to their sound. I think it's weird that people attribute all kinds of negative things to Yoko Ono over some silly experimental album.
1969 - Some song about the Age of Aquarius? In the first place, can someone explain to me what the Age of Aquarius is supposed to be? Secondly, watch the video because it's hilarious. How the hell did anyone ever take this song seriously? Holy holy holy crap, this is 1969 too. I can't imagine anyone playing this song or using it except out of irony: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANwIgpha7k
1970 is Raindrops Keep Fallin On My Head. Why is that #1? It's mellow, I'll grant, but it's not that interesting. Maybe the general public likes mellow braindead stuff? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRsXHDYXafM
1971 has Joy To the World by Three Dog Night as #1? Is that some kind of direct statement about the war and how everyone should do peace and love or something? Holy crap, check out the long hair and the 'stache: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFypAB7nYGA
1972 is Gilbert O'Sullivan's Alone Again. This is another song I don't get. It just doesn't sound interesting or memorable to me so how could it be #1? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_P-v1BVQn8
1973 finally seems to have a #1 song that seems to deal explicitly with the Vietnam War. According to the website I'm going by this song marked the growth of public awareness about POW-MIA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NCZ4l8FCFc
Let's see, 1974's top song was...The Way We Were? I just realized I don't know anything about Barba Streisand except what South Park told me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-KPGh3wysw
The final year the page deals with is 1975. And the top song is...Rhinestone Cowboy? Well, I dunno. I guess it's a pretty catchy song. I mean I can't deny that it really sticks in your head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8wDhK5LyY
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Sep 18 2008, 07:46 PM)
(I'm looking at you, Home Of The Brave)
According to Wikipedia, Home of the Brave made back 1/24 of its budget in theatres. That's just harsh.
Apparently it somehow made it up to over 1/3 on DVD sales, though.
Regarding I Will Follow Him, the accent is pretty extreme. I'm not sure I'd call it "ridiculous", though; the little bit I listened to just had her pronouncing it as if it was English, so it was deeply wrong but not American-trying-to-fake-the-accent-without-any-idea-what-they're-doing absurd or anything. It doesn't even sound like she tries, which is probably for the best.
Edit: regarding Age of Aquarius, the actual age is supposed to be a golden age that's going to start sometime in the next thousand years or so, moving from the conflict of the age of Pisces into the understanding and cooperation of Aquarius. As for the music, you just don't have enough LSD in your system.
~J
about the only one i connect to vietnam is the stones one, but that only shows that i get my cultural context via movies i guess...
Raindrops is probably the #1 song of the year because it was featured in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which came out at the tail end of 1969.
Another song I really like is Jimmy Webb's version of Galveston. Supposedly Webb wasn't referencing the Vietnam War, but instead the Spanish-American War. However, the song came out in 1969, and Webb's style is kind of slow and introspective. So in my opinion maybe he said it was about the Spanish American War to avoid controversy, but can we really believe that he was all contemplative and morose about a historical war instead of about the one that was taking place at the time?
In any case Glen Campbell had a more upbeat version that was supposedly more popular, but it doesn't sound as cool to me as this serious sad Webb version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYJKpLX1xw
In any case Glen Campbell had a more upbeat version that was supposedly more popular, but it doesn't sound as cool to me as this serious sad Webb version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfYJKpLX1xw
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