The more I'm looking at astral haze, the more I'm realizing this is supposed to be a disadvantage? It's godsend for any char who's not a mage... and even if you are you can turn it into your own -4 to everyone else, +4 bonus to yourself bonus. Even worse once you stack it on the Arcane arrestor.
Oddball thought... Lets say we take one of those 4 limbed hindu surged and give it astral hazing.
Said character is a mage.
Said character gets geomancy and proceeds to aspect his own 'disadvantage' to himself. (easier if he has followers for a group ritual). Said character now has a permanently aspected domain around himself giving himself +4 dice and other casters/spirits -4 dice.
We can even take this farther, said character gets followers and is seen as an avatar of shiva. Said character forms his own religious 'cult' magical organization and aspects his followers and his very own 'Koresh Compound'
At 1m expansion per 2-3 hours... that means the Domain expands at 8-12m per day. Just for simplicity, we'll call it 10m a day. That works out to 300m a month. 3.65 KILOMETERS a year! If we make said character an elf... this can get HUGE. What happens when domains collide...
Quite frankly, to make this a really negative quality, you pretty much have to put a bounty on said character like the disadvantage. As EVERY shaman, hermetic, adept, etc. is going to want ANY character w/ astral haze dead. How is it characters like this aren't seen as bigger issues than urban blight.
I really do hope I'm getting something drastically wrong here. I'd hate for this theory to actually have some merit.
Full Version: Astral Hazing Cheese
i think it maxes out at essence meters or something like that.
also, at least in the german version, they did not really delete out aspected mana-static, which could maybe combined with this to get even worse results
also, at least in the german version, they did not really delete out aspected mana-static, which could maybe combined with this to get even worse results
No it starts at essence meters, then gets bigger from there.
It also says, "Whatever the ambient mana conditions are, the character always stands in the heart of a Rating 4 background count". So the astral haze overrides all local conditions, it is the trump card.
I see another way to cheese this... SPELLCASTERS IN SPACE (a play on Pigs in Space). What do you mean -12 mana void
.
It also says, "Whatever the ambient mana conditions are, the character always stands in the heart of a Rating 4 background count". So the astral haze overrides all local conditions, it is the trump card.
I see another way to cheese this... SPELLCASTERS IN SPACE (a play on Pigs in Space). What do you mean -12 mana void
.
Aspected mana static was edited out of the English version for good reasons.
BTW, cyberzombie hazing spreads in the same way and does not have a range limit.
They should certainly put something like this in the errata, -4 BGC is darned huge.
Letting it spread over entire cities because a cyberlich hacker is a shut-in couch potatoe seems a bit...inapropriate.
What exactly does "stays in the same area" mean, anyway?
Within the aspected terrain?
Within the same room?
Block?
Neighbourhood?
BTW, cyberzombie hazing spreads in the same way and does not have a range limit.
They should certainly put something like this in the errata, -4 BGC is darned huge.
Letting it spread over entire cities because a cyberlich hacker is a shut-in couch potatoe seems a bit...inapropriate.
What exactly does "stays in the same area" mean, anyway?
Within the aspected terrain?
Within the same room?
Block?
Neighbourhood?
probably the BGC itself . . so if you stay in long enough and it gets big enough, you have to get FAR away to get it to go away again . . let's say the BGC has grown about 100m, around your domicile . . if you stay within those 100m, the BGC will grow stronger, and if you go out of those 100m, the BGC begins to fade . . i could be wrong about this again of course . .
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 20 2008, 01:47 AM) 
probably the BGC itself . . so if you stay in long enough and it gets big enough, you have to get FAR away to get it to go away again . . let's say the BGC has grown about 100m, around your domicile . . if you stay within those 100m, the BGC will grow stronger, and if you go out of those 100m, the BGC begins to fade . . i could be wrong about this again of course . .
I'm quite certain that at least staying within the BGC would qualify for staying in the same area.
However, if i would put out errara regarding this issue, they would be more concerned with a range limit.
Unless one wants wonderful new job opportunities in corpsec for astral hazers.
BTW, (Essence) meters wouldn't work for CZ, as they allready cover an area of (negative Essence) meters as minimum.
QUOTE (Falconer @ Aug 19 2008, 08:09 PM)
Oddball thought... Lets say we take one of those 4 limbed hindu surged and give it astral hazing.
Said character is a mage.
Said character gets geomancy and proceeds to aspect his own 'disadvantage' to himself. (easier if he has followers for a group ritual). Said character now has a permanently aspected domain around himself giving himself +4 dice and other casters/spirits -4 dice.
We can even take this farther, said character gets followers and is seen as an avatar of shiva. Said character forms his own religious 'cult' magical organization and aspects his followers and his very own 'Koresh Compound'
At 1m expansion per 2-3 hours... that means the Domain expands at 8-12m per day. Just for simplicity, we'll call it 10m a day. That works out to 300m a month. 3.65 KILOMETERS a year! If we make said character an elf... this can get HUGE. What happens when domains collide...
Quite frankly, to make this a really negative quality, you pretty much have to put a bounty on said character like the disadvantage. As EVERY shaman, hermetic, adept, etc. is going to want ANY character w/ astral haze dead. How is it characters like this aren't seen as bigger issues than urban blight.
Said character is a mage.
Said character gets geomancy and proceeds to aspect his own 'disadvantage' to himself. (easier if he has followers for a group ritual). Said character now has a permanently aspected domain around himself giving himself +4 dice and other casters/spirits -4 dice.
We can even take this farther, said character gets followers and is seen as an avatar of shiva. Said character forms his own religious 'cult' magical organization and aspects his followers and his very own 'Koresh Compound'
At 1m expansion per 2-3 hours... that means the Domain expands at 8-12m per day. Just for simplicity, we'll call it 10m a day. That works out to 300m a month. 3.65 KILOMETERS a year! If we make said character an elf... this can get HUGE. What happens when domains collide...
Quite frankly, to make this a really negative quality, you pretty much have to put a bounty on said character like the disadvantage. As EVERY shaman, hermetic, adept, etc. is going to want ANY character w/ astral haze dead. How is it characters like this aren't seen as bigger issues than urban blight.
Sounds like a cool idea for a run.
It may not be possible to align the BC, but its a good disadvantage for any mundane character.
the quality indicates that the background count overwrites any other local background count, and indicates that it even hampers the character themselves, and indeed that it affects *all* attempts to use magic in the vicinity of the character. you aren't going to be aspecting this domain anytime soon.
as far as being awesome, you know how people always come here complaining about how their focus-using magician is kicking but with their 10 sustained buff spells and they don't know how to stop them? well you may have also noticed that every single time, the answer is the same. wards are everywhere. at least the magician can turn off their foci and stop sustaining their spells. the person with astral hazing is a walking alarm everywhere he goes. astral entities will spot him from a mile away. wards and spirits will be disrupted left and right, alerting wagemages that someone is breaking into their secured facility. and your team mage (if any) will hate you for the fact that if he ever comes anywhere near you (which just maybe could possibly happen in a shadowrunning team) any focus or spell or spirit from him below force/rating 4 is gone as soon as you come near.
you think the cybersam has a hard time getting through airport security? try getting this poor guy through. he's going to trip every ward, set off every magical alarm, and tick off security to no end, and that isn't good when you want to get through security quietly and without disruptions.
so yes, as a matter of fact, this *is* a disadvantage. the fact that your main RL job potential is to be bolted to a pillar somewhere in the center of a space station to allow magic to be cast in an ever-expanding area is not exactly comforting either.
simply put, astral hazing is about as subtle as driving a tank through the front door of the place you're trying to quietly infiltrate. sure, it has it's uses, and hey it's great protection, but this is shadowrun, not tankwars.
[edit] and heaven forbid you should have to remain in one place for a long time without attracting attention. if there should just so happen to be a witness to the fact that the guy you extracted was travelling around with some bonehead who generates a massive background count everywhere he goes, and you have to stay inside a building or (even worse) a specific room to avoid mundane detection, you're gonna be pretty danged visible before very long.
as far as being awesome, you know how people always come here complaining about how their focus-using magician is kicking but with their 10 sustained buff spells and they don't know how to stop them? well you may have also noticed that every single time, the answer is the same. wards are everywhere. at least the magician can turn off their foci and stop sustaining their spells. the person with astral hazing is a walking alarm everywhere he goes. astral entities will spot him from a mile away. wards and spirits will be disrupted left and right, alerting wagemages that someone is breaking into their secured facility. and your team mage (if any) will hate you for the fact that if he ever comes anywhere near you (which just maybe could possibly happen in a shadowrunning team) any focus or spell or spirit from him below force/rating 4 is gone as soon as you come near.
you think the cybersam has a hard time getting through airport security? try getting this poor guy through. he's going to trip every ward, set off every magical alarm, and tick off security to no end, and that isn't good when you want to get through security quietly and without disruptions.
so yes, as a matter of fact, this *is* a disadvantage. the fact that your main RL job potential is to be bolted to a pillar somewhere in the center of a space station to allow magic to be cast in an ever-expanding area is not exactly comforting either.
simply put, astral hazing is about as subtle as driving a tank through the front door of the place you're trying to quietly infiltrate. sure, it has it's uses, and hey it's great protection, but this is shadowrun, not tankwars.
[edit] and heaven forbid you should have to remain in one place for a long time without attracting attention. if there should just so happen to be a witness to the fact that the guy you extracted was travelling around with some bonehead who generates a massive background count everywhere he goes, and you have to stay inside a building or (even worse) a specific room to avoid mundane detection, you're gonna be pretty danged visible before very long.
Like I said, I posted this because I wanted to be wrong. I was hoping my logic/reading was critically flawed. I just tend to read this things w/ a mind looking toward worst case abuse to head it off at the pass.
But when I read it and it says "The character becomes an aspected domain in her own right.." It sounds to me as if it's not merely mana static that's when the idea hit me that this could potentially be abused. Turning a negative quality into a positive.
As far as the second bit. That's a great point about setting off every alarm bell between here and the moon. Makes me wonder if the cleansing metamagic might be more usefull as part of a regular ritual to suppress it. I still think any such character should pretty much have a standing bounty on their head. Then again, there are probably anti-magic factions who'd kill to protect and nurture such induhviduals as well (to borrow the dilbertese).
I like the image of a char like this chained to the center of a space station... it's just funny. Makes me wonder if the cyberzombie has the same text... if we've found another use for them in space. (they have to be easier to produce on demand).
It seems wrong to me that this negative quality is automatically the top dog whenever different domains collide. I could see chaining the victim in a mana void to bring it up closer to 0 as an alternate usage as well if the void/generator was more of a negative plus positive comes closer to zero type effect rather than outright overriding.
But when I read it and it says "The character becomes an aspected domain in her own right.." It sounds to me as if it's not merely mana static that's when the idea hit me that this could potentially be abused. Turning a negative quality into a positive.
As far as the second bit. That's a great point about setting off every alarm bell between here and the moon. Makes me wonder if the cleansing metamagic might be more usefull as part of a regular ritual to suppress it. I still think any such character should pretty much have a standing bounty on their head. Then again, there are probably anti-magic factions who'd kill to protect and nurture such induhviduals as well (to borrow the dilbertese).
I like the image of a char like this chained to the center of a space station... it's just funny. Makes me wonder if the cyberzombie has the same text... if we've found another use for them in space. (they have to be easier to produce on demand).
It seems wrong to me that this negative quality is automatically the top dog whenever different domains collide. I could see chaining the victim in a mana void to bring it up closer to 0 as an alternate usage as well if the void/generator was more of a negative plus positive comes closer to zero type effect rather than outright overriding.
I never said I was going to bolt the Cyberzombie I bought to a pillar in the center of my space station...
I said I was going to wear him as a backpack when I was in space...
Stop misquoting me.
- Umbra
(since I find Emoticons annoying I'll just put a "Snicker" here instead.)
I said I was going to wear him as a backpack when I was in space...
Stop misquoting me.
- Umbra
(since I find Emoticons annoying I'll just put a "Snicker" here instead.)
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Aug 19 2008, 09:48 PM)
It may not be possible to align the BC, but its a good disadvantage for any mundane character.
Really? As far as I can tell a mundane with astral hazing can punch spirits right in the face.
I don't see how. The character isn't inherently magical (meaning no adept abilities that would allow such an attack, not able to project, not dual natured), and has no way to perceive into the astral. If the spirit manifests, sure, the character can punch it, but with no greater impact than normal. The spirit on the other hand *is* likely to move away from the character just because of the taint he represents.
Heck, take a character with Astral Hazing and Spirit Bane (Fire) and Fire Spirits will constantly be trying to "cleanse" the character. That should make for a fun life.
Heck, take a character with Astral Hazing and Spirit Bane (Fire) and Fire Spirits will constantly be trying to "cleanse" the character. That should make for a fun life.
Just being near a Force 6 spirit makest that spirit a force 2 spirit, much easier to beat in a batte of wills.
I would also think that leaving a trail of disrupted mana patterns in your wake would make you easier to track - assuming the tracker is awakened.
- Scope
- Scope
QUOTE (Scope_47 @ Aug 20 2008, 08:06 AM)
I would also think that leaving a trail of disrupted mana patterns in your wake would make you easier to track - assuming the tracker is awakened.
- Scope
- Scope
Would it? Shouldnt it give a +4 to any tracking test since you are tracking into a -4 mana space - Or at least +4 to drain?
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Aug 20 2008, 07:06 AM)
Heck, take a character with Astral Hazing and Spirit Bane (Fire) and Fire Spirits will constantly be trying to "cleanse" the character. That should make for a fun life.
Well, it could be, and the spirit would be in trouble.
First ALL the spirits powers affecting teh character would be at -4 and if the spirit goes withing Essence meters it goes -4 force and risks going pop.
Second it wouldnt take long for the character to call the cops on a rampaging spirit (and its owner would have to pay damages).
Keep in mind that there are CIVILIANS (non runners) that might have these oddities as they too can be changelings.
Meh, earth spirit flings boulder at annoying astral hazing dudar. Problem solved. 
Sorry, lack of sleep makes me think of twinky player squishing tactics. I'll be more reasonable tomorrow.
Sorry, lack of sleep makes me think of twinky player squishing tactics. I'll be more reasonable tomorrow.
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Aug 20 2008, 07:06 AM)
The spirit on the other hand *is* likely to move away from the character just because of the taint he represents.
This i think would be the most likely approach from all spirits unless they are hostile and forced to attack.
After all - if you see a burning building, would you enter it or stay away from it?
Unaware spirits might be unlucky if the character just happens to drive by them and disrupts them...
Free spirit PC WILL hate you...
QUOTE (Jhaiisiin @ Aug 20 2008, 07:06 AM)
The spirit on the other hand *is* likely to move away from the character just because of the taint he represents.
This i think would be the most likely approach from all spirits unless they are hostile and forced to attack.
After all - if you see a burning building, would you enter it or stay away from it?
Unaware spirits might be unlucky if the character just happens to drive by them and disrupts them...
Free spirit PC WILL hate you...
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 20 2008, 02:17 AM)
i think it maxes out at essence meters or something like that.
also, at least in the german version, they did not really delete out aspected mana-static, which could maybe combined with this to get even worse results
also, at least in the german version, they did not really delete out aspected mana-static, which could maybe combined with this to get even worse results
Only in the German version - and seeing that Pegasus is now responsible, quite a few of those issues will go away.
QUOTE (Ryu @ Aug 20 2008, 09:06 AM)
Only in the German version - and seeing that Pegasus is now responsible, quite a few of those issues will go away.
Well, it DOES max out at essence meters but any increase over time is optional by the GM
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