OK, here's a question. There are descriptors of Aztechnology producing bioware birth control and sterilization in the Bioware section of M&M. No mention of price, though. So what do you think in the Sixth Age a good bioware birth control method
might be priced at? Not the cut-rate ones that the Azzies want to pass off on the metas in their racism, that is

Install a chemical gland that produces strawberry flavored spermicide.

This gland was featured in the movie "Dicote Dan Does Dallas".

I'd use the costs for Clean Metabolism myself, despite the fact that if the Availability of Tailored Pheromones is any indication, anything relating to sex and sexual attraction in the Sixth World is not in demand enough to lower it below 12.

Sorry, pet peeve on that last part. Clean Metabolism is definitely what I would base it off of, though. Sure, it has an insane price, but so do most implants in Shadowrun.

Miniguns are not going to be as in demand to the general public as something like Tailored Pheromones. In case you missed it, sex has a tendency to sell rather nicely to the public in the real world. Hardcore military-grade weaponry... not so much outside of rednecks and gun nuts.

SR tends to skim the casual cyberware that would appeal to the general pubic.

To expound on Funk's point, the "Mr. Studd" implant would be a wonderful seller.

-Siege

If it's using batteries, it's not going to be Bioware now is it?

I believe the Mr Studd was cyberware? Saw a Shadowrun conversion of it on a site a few months ago. Anyway, chances are availability and price would be incredibly low for something like that. A semipermanent, safe, reversible, and entirely reliable form of contraception would quite simply be the best selling piece of consumer bioware ever, assuming it's not obtrusive.

It's not a radical concept -- hell, they already have implantable birth control that's supposed to be effective for...five years?

Although that would be more along the lines of cyberware -- a form of prolonged chemical release.

As for "Mr. Studd", it's technically cyberware. Although I would have to imagine that if you really wanted a cloned and subsequently augmented replacement, you could get a 13" penis grown and attached.

-Siege

Well, looking at the big hoorah over AIDS medication nowadays, I think the high prices of health products wouldn't be such a puzzle. Especially if the world was ruled by megacorps driven by profit.

Yes, because the pills/shots you need to take for your Platelet Factories should be way cheaper. Hooray for combat!

AIDS has been cured by 2060.

Drugs are indeed expensive, particularly in North America as evidenced by the number of people eager to buy their medical supplies from Canada and Mexico.

However, demand will drive price and availability -- at the risk of getting into a lecture on economics, the cyberware market is by no means exclusively held by any one company and demand for cosmetic enhancements will only increase.

Look at minor cosmetic procedures like face peels, lifts and so on. Hell, stomach stapling is becoming the new and popular shortcut despite the risks involved.

Judas Priest, people are having botox parties for pity's sake.

If a society has the technology to create feasible brain implants (cerebral boosters), wired reflexes and functioning cyberlimbs, I would imagine the demand for boob jobs, dick enhancements and that flawless complexion would have driven down price and increased the casual availability of such cosmetic procedures.

As I have said before, it galls me to agree with Doc Funk but he's hit the nail on the head for this one --> the prices in the book are geared towards game balance and written from the perspective of keep runners in check and _not_ with a reasonable progression of human interest.

Although I will grant that it is possible that societal interest may have swung wide, bypassing the development of casual, cosmetic upgrades. Not unlike Star Trek's aversion to personal enhancement technology.

-Siege

Why would you want bioware installed to turn off your ability to get pregant?

If you want to remove all chance of getting pregant for the rest of you life (for whatever reason), then it would be easier to get your tubes tied (or some other 2060 equivilant), rather than have a cloned peice of tissue producing ant-pregnancy hormones.

The other option, for short term pregnancy already exists in the form of Implomen(sp?), which is simple enough to be inserted in 20 minutes by a doctor (not a surgeon, just a GP) and has enough hormones to last 5 years. Once again, the 2060 version would be more reliable and longer lasting. I doubt this would be intrusive enough to cost essence. And if you want to get pregnant, it is once again much more simple to remove than a bioware implant.

leemur, the entire point is to have a semipermanent form of birth control. The implant could be removed when you're done clubbing and want to have kids, and until then, all's fair in fun and war. The practical upside to the bioware implant is that it's more reliable, can last indefinitely, and isn't a liability in any extremely physical situation, which is not something you can say of Norplant or any 2060 equivalent.

Anyway, I completely agree with the Doctor, but I'll go one further and say that I can't agree with the assertion that the book prices and equipment were designed with balance in mind. The fact that tailored pheremones are so ridiculously difficult to get while the AVS, Mnemonic Enhancer, etc remain relatively simple to acquire leads me to think that Mulvihill was thinking less about game balance or sound world design and more about methadone.

He's got a point, there.

I mean, who's going to pay 20,000 nuyen for permanent pheromones when you can just buy a perfume/cologne bottle of them for, say, 50?

Cause people have more money than sense?

If you base your value on your attractiveness to the opposite sex, 20k for a guaranteed edge in the War of Roses.

Not to mention people who depend on social interaction may consider it well worth it -- reporters, high-end hookers...mental shut-down happening...

Having worked in Buckhead (the expensive part of Atlanta), I have no doubts that all the rich 30-something's would cheerfully invest in this, just to keep themselves feeling good about themselves.

-Siege

I have the conversions. These are both cyberware and were converted by Gurth. You can get a copy online somewhere, I'm sure.

Contraceptive implant:
Essence: .05 availability 6/4 cost $1,000 Street index 1.25 works up to 5 years.

Mister Studd Implant (Also Midnight Lady available for the women):
Essence: .35 Availability 3/48 hours Cost $3,000 Street index 2


I'll definitely agree, Shadowrun seems to come into this with the idea that the only people who buy cyber are people who kill other people (or surf the matrix). I like all of this stuff Gurth was kind enough to convert for us, and I'll probably start pushing it on my players. Get my Troll a 'Mr. Studd'

Heh, this thread got long in my absence

Would have made some comment sooner, but the droogs showed up for game. It went surprisingly well, despite their lack of big guns.

Thanks to Nezumi for the post on some of the, uhm, devices I was looking for.

As to the debate over bioware vs. Norplant/Implomen. I’ve known a few women who have had these things and they can be screwed up too easily. These ladies could be considered wageslaves in the ‘60s, and all of them have had problems with their implants. While the tech is probably much better in the Sixth Age, I still point to my original quote from M&M on Aztech’s bioware birth control being cheap and accessible. So where’s the stats? I don’t think this is something that just shadowrunners would be interested in, and the potential for profit would probably make them quite common.

My players actually made some suggestions on this last night and I am working on the particulars (funny how none of their hardcase shadowrunners want to be burdened by screaming babies at the moment ). I can post them when I get the chance if anyone’s interested.

If I recall correctly, Raygun mentioned something about a seventeen-inch cyber-c**k in an essay/rant of his.

Considering where this science is today (in contraception, not cyber-genitals), in 60 years it's probably something that your average working-class SINner has done so they don't ever have to worry about unwanted pregnancies. Maybe a hormone implant that they get early on, when they're a kid, that works throughout their life. Maybe it's something in the water, a la flouride.

Talking about this sort of thing, has anyone ever thought about a certain level of bio- or essence-index rendering the implantee sterile? Seeing as essence is about the wholeness and "holistic well-being" of the body, I'm sure a couple of the more sensitive organs would eventually fail to operate at full steam if the body's holisticity, or whatever, were to detiriorate significantly.

What we need is the Birth Control Virus from GURPS: Biotech. That sounds like a nice madd-science sort of plot point. An aerosol virus, stable over the long term and easily communicable, which renders women sterile after a single child. Shouldn't actually be that difficult to engineer.

Goodbye, population problem.

So where are the stats for Tailored Pheromones perfume?

Rather than bioware birth control I imagine you would be far more likely to see bioware fertility treatments.

generally with these common sense applications of biotech I charge between 5k-15k depending on what it is. No sense in financially punishing a character when they want to add a little color to their character.

Tasty chocolate soy milk doesn't grant a +1 to +4 bonus on Social Skill Tests or to Charisma.

So all things that alter target numbers must be explicitly written down somewhere?

Nope, but if such a significant option were available, it should have related stats. It's easy to just go around claiming that such things exist, but you have -nothing- to back it up. And everything in the game that does relate to the subject, indicates that such a simple solution isn't an option.

But I guess according to your reasoning, I should be able to snag a thermonuclear hand grenade without much of a problem. Afterall, real thermonuclear devices are a bitch to get your hands on, ergo, they must be readily available in smaller, easier to use forms.

And to me, it looks like saying that you can get around obscene Availabilities and costs just... because.

Please do note that I find the *entire* thing absurd and that I use house rules out the yin-yang to fix the problems that I see. That doesn't mean the problems don't exist. It's no fault of mine that Shadowrun doesn't have Perfume on Crack at reasonable costs -- if it did, I guarantee there'd be a price tag for it, just like they do for Smartgoggles. Insulin and eyeglasses don't provide in-game benefits. Tailored Pheromones most certainly do.

To repeat my general evaluation -- documenting all the possible nuances of gadgets, gizmos and doohickies of 2060 would be a lot of time and effort.

Which means a lot of stuff that might exist didn't get written down because not a lot of players would see the need to buy phenotyped perfume (commented on in "Wolf & Raven") or the latest and greatest sports watch.

But some of the more creative ones might, however not nearly enough to warrant a sourcebook.

And if you do want numbers for perfume, check out the Chrome -> Shadow books for the Biotechnica Perfume.

-Siege

I would assume something like that would be intended for primarily the fellows who like those Troll ladies.

(And in case you're wondering, I plan on wearing a snappy black number to the Oxymoron of the Year awards)

Anyone with the Lady Midnight cyber would be fine with it.

I don't know why people think the Mister Studd is this giant, knobby rod of pain and suffering. It isn't. It's made for 'her pleasure'. I imagine it would have some sort of subdermal implants that vibrate, modulate pressure etc. What Raygun is talking about isn't listed by name in any manual I've seen and I don't think is the same device.

Yes, but most things designed for her pleasure will be under twelve inches. Most will be under eight. Most will probably be right around five or six with their meat counterparts (that sounds dirtier than when referencing other cyber), just with added vibration functions and probably increased stamina.

~J

Siege,

you are nuts for not wanting laser surgery for your eyes - nuts i tell you

life is 100x better without damn hell crap devil faced bastard glasses and scratching stab yourself in the eye with a finger contact lenses

nuts

a laser is just light - you look at light all the time - and the kind of light they use doesnt even go into your eye - it cant penetrate your lense at all

you are nuts

omg go get it done