OK, everyone, I've got a question about bulk mods for cyber limbs. Looking at the elf lady on the cover of Runner's Companion, it looks like her cyberhand extends a little past her wrist (as in a good 2 inches [5 cm]). I was wondering if this could count as a bulk modification to a cyberhand. She obviously didn't replace her whole lower arm, but she replaced more than just her hand. If so, how many extra slots can you get?

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Second question: Can you stick a cyber commlink & a datajack in a cyberhand?

A bulk modification is more a enlarging of a limb to make more room. As mentioned in Augmentation, it has to be an obvious cyberlimb and must be at least a full lower arm/leg or complete arm/leg to take the mod. Her hand and wrist were replaced (which makes sense, given it's easier to anchor stuff to straight bones like that), so I'd not say she got any bulk upgrades done. By RAW, she couldn't have. I think the cyberhand goes up her arm as much as it does simply for support and bracing.

What he said, except that only lower arms/legs, full arms/legs, and torsos may have their Capacity increased by more than 2. The feet and hands can get it, its just limited to 2

On the second question, I can't see why not. I always do

I'd say bulk makes it bulkier, you know, thicker, more dense.

A good example of a fully maxed lower arm would be hellboys big hand.

Actually, Cybertechnology mentions that it is necessary to anchor every cyberlimb in this way.
Full arms or legs also include parts of the shoulder and the hip, respectively, partial limbs include the elbow or knee and hands and feet the wrist or ankle.

Wether this is still true in SR4 is not mentioned anywhere, but it would at the very least be easier.


As far as headware implants in limbs are concerned, i'd allow it, but not in the reverse case (no internal air tank or cybershotgun in your eyes ).

Eyes/Ears are special and don't use normal capacities. The actual cyberLIMBS do, so you can put an internal airtank in your foot or whathaveyou.

Or you could put an internal airtank in a cyberskull, but not in cybereyes, as cybereyes are not limbs.

What an airhead idea. Seriously.

Now I want to make a cybered up diver runner named Airhead.

So a Bulk Cyberskull would make someone look like a stereotypical no-necked goon?

Or like a conehead. Whichever you want.

Or like Braniac. It's more amusing if they have a logic of 1.

Edit: Come to think of it, is there some chemical or gas you could inject or inhale for that diver idea that would allow them to surface rapidly without problems?

All you would need is something to handle the Nitrogen coming out of your bloodstream as you rose toward the surface. The lower pressure at the surface causes the nitrogen to bubble out of the bloodstream. As a result, if you rise too fast, you get nitrogen narcosis (the bends).

Nanites designed to capture and hold Nitrogen past a certain concentration in your bloodstream could conceivably take care of you, especially if they were able to maintain a given level of nitrogen in the bloodstream and release any captured amounts necessary to bring the levels back up to normal which would allow to work like a rechargeable battery but with nitrogen instead.

Given a little Google-search for numbers, you'd prolly want your nanites to start releasing Nitrogen back into the blood stream when the gas levels in your blood are at / below 80% Nitrogen since the normal make up of air is around 78% Nitrogen & 21% Oxygen (the remaining 1% is everything else).

That way, your nanites can capture/release nitrogen as needed to prevent the bends. Hence the working like a rechargeable battery comment earlier.

if you get one rank of bulk modification, how much bigger would a cyberhand be?

Big enough to conceal a datajack inside its new size.

Bulk Cybertorso, "Hey, man, you need to lose some weight. You got a good pot belly going there."

So it would not be noticeable by anybody? Even the person who has it?

it IS allready obvious cyber after all . . how much more obvious can it get? O.o
if you have an obvious cyber-arm, it does not matter if it is a life-size arm made of liquid metal, or an over-sized arm made to look like something from a junkyard . . obvious is obvious and that's that O.o
if what you put INTO the bulk modded limb ads weight, hell yes, the wearer will feel that difference . . but aside from it being a bit more bulky, if there's nothing IN that added bulk? no, not likely . .

A 1 capacity increase wouldn't really be that noticeable I don't think, no.

It might make people wonder wether that cyberhand is proportionally larger than its meat equivalent sometimes, or wether that part of the hand looks a bit too big, but i agree that it should be rather unobtrusive.
And if both the replacement and bulk mod apply to both limbs, i'd declare that it is not noticeable at all unless someone is familliar with that line of implants.

An increase by 4 bulk points, on the other hand, should always be noticeable at first sight.

why?
not that i think people should not notice anything about the limb being larger . . but they should not immediately think "bulked up, more ware, more dangerous", why should they not, instead for example think "modded cyber to look more tough" . . especially with arms and maybe torso, bulk up either by training, or by bulk mod, or by modding the "limb" to look more buff O.o

Well, i was thinking more about people who know something about cyber, instead of some random bloke who spots you in the subway.

But even they should imediately recognize that this +4 arm is just awkwardly big.

*shrugs*
but it looks cool doesn't it? O.o
it looks as if that arm can punch through a train and then pet the kitten on the other side without problems, doesn't mean the arm can actually do that . . but that's the whole point of modding, especially in the cyber-fetish-scene ^^

Of course it does, that's the point with cyberarms, isn't it?
That and maxed agility for combat hackers.O.o

to each their own i guess, i allways preferred the STR16 Cyber-Arm of a Troll punching through walls like in that one picture in man and machine ^^
but yes, the cool is the main-point of cyber-limbs . . because even with the new 4th ed rules for them, they are still not as good as a natural arm with bio enhancements O.o

Unless you go for natural maximum +7.
Try getting that with muscle toner...

Certainly bio would not be an option for the elven CZ who craves AGI 14 (21).

muscle toner alone, no, but with hyper-gland and certain gene/nano-ware you can get it up to there i think O.o
but it's still just improved flesh that you can't just shut down to not feeling any pain in most cases *snickers*
but yes, bio allways lacked in the high reaction scores in SR3 . .
i won't even ask about how one woule get agi to 21 without really going cyber-zombie and min-maxing to hell, heaven and back down to earth in just that one attribute O.o
i mean, 14 is allready twice natural maximum of agi for elves, so how do you get your BASIC agi to be 14 so you can improve to 14+(14/2)=7=21 ? O.o
but enough of this, i have to go to work tomorrow and have to try and get some shut eye now . . how i long for biomonitor with autoinjector of some light tranquilizer and the sleep regulator and the jolt alert cyber connected to internal math subprocessor for the clock function . .

If you willing to go all out, Cyberlimbs are the awesome. I actually have a problem now, I always want them because they rock soooo much.

But unless you want to replace most of your body, bio is generally better for a combat oriented character. Otherwise, a limb or two is good for non combat characters who want a cheap high agility in one arm to shoot with, and maybe a little armor.

Without cybermancy?
Not at all, thank whomever.
You need -5 Essence for that.

Genetic optimization and exceptional attribute (does metagenic improvement stack with those?) gets you to 9, 5 points from cybermancy to 14, resulting in an augmented maximum of 21 (and tons of karma to sink into raising your Agility to 14 after the cybermancy- unless you just get your custom-made cyberlimbs when you undergo the surgery- you see where this leads).

No way to get 7 points by bioware.
+4 from muscle toner, +1 from suprathyroid, that's it.
Same for Strength and i won't even think about Body for trolls.
You could use the increase [attribute] spell, but good luck with the background count.

As you see, for true CZ twinkage, cyberlimbs are the only choice.
That's where they really get to shine.

Don't forget the Adrenal Pump

Is it actually possible to use that thing without screwing yourself up completely?