So this is my first time playing shadowrun and I'm getting into two 4th ed campaigns. I'm taking up different roles in each campaign but most of the people in both didn't have enough time to do anymore then tell me "these are the roles open pick which ever you want." So I picked and now I'm trying to get it right. If you don't mind I would really appreciate the help in streamlining them both a bit.

The first is my support mage. He is a combat medic who discovered his magical aptitude after a rather stressful mission gave him a particularly bad case of shell shock. Eventually he got over it and was given an honorable discharge for his service. Now without much to do he got into shadowrunning after an old squad mate (my friends cyber heavy jewish orc) came to him with gun shot wounds and an interesting story that made him decide to join his team. For extra cash when a chance presents itself Caeden will chop up bodies for organs, implants, etc. He's somewhat honorable about it, limiting himself to actual enemies they have killed and not every orphan unlucky enough to walk past his doorstep. If anything he would take them in and use some of his blood money to help. His sense of right and wrong are somewhat twisted, sometimes good and other times bad. Because his attention has shifted from being a soldier to more of a support role he has lost some muscle mass and fire arm experience but still knows enough to not shoot himself in the foot. That's the cliff note version but since we have a nuker who can do most of the real spell casting my job is to keep people alive or at least conscious and give some support fire when I can.

Caeden Montero
Age: 23
Race: Elf-Magician

Attributes
Body: 4
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 1
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 4
Willpower: 3

Edge: 1
Magic: 6
Initiative: 6
Essence: 6

Active Skills:
Biotech skill group (First Aid, Medicine, Cybertechnology) - 4
Spellcasting (Health) - 5
Counterspelling (Combat) - 5
Automatics (assault rifle) - 4
Pistols (semi-auto) - 3

Knowledge Skills:
English - N
German - 2
French - 2
Biology (Anatomy) - 4
Medical Background (Combat Medicine) - 4
Smuggling Routes - 4
Black Market (organs) - 4


Positive Qualities
Magician
Focused Concentration 1
Mentor Spirit - Watchful Guardian: A home brew mentor. He gives + 2 to Health Spells and Combat spells or Detection spells (person chooses one.) The disadvantage is that the spellcaster must make a willpower + logic (3) test to not attempt rescuing an innocent person in danger.

Negative Qualities
Sensitive System
Sensitive Neural Structure
Allergy common/mild (shell fish)

Weapons
Ares Alpha
+Imaging scope
+Vision Magnification
+ Thermographic
+Low Light
+Flare Compensation
+Vision Enhancement (Rating 3)
3x sound suppressors
35x Alpha clips
10x Alpha Grenade Launcher clips.
Ares Viper Slivergun
+Laser sight
+quick draw holster
25x Viper Slivergun clips
Raecor Sting
+ quick draw holster
10x Sting clips.
15x frag grenades
10x high explosive nades
10x smoke nades
10x Thermal smoke nades
10x Narcojet Gas nades
10x Nausea Gas nades
2x flash-packs

Armor:
3x Cheap Clothing
Chic Clothing
Armor Clothing
Armor Jacket
Camouflage Suit
+Non Conductivity (rating 4)
+ Thermal Dampeners ( rating 5)
+ Chemical Protection (rating 5)
+ Insulation (rating 4)
+ Fire Resistance (rating 4)

Vehicles:
GMC Bulldog
+Rigger Adaptation.
+ Pilot (Rating 4)
+Maneuver Vehicle 6 (Ground Craft). A remote control ambulance is never not useful.
+Shop. Caeden has converted the back of his van into a sort of ambulance.
+Radio Cyberware Scanner (Rating 6)
+ Maglock (rating 6)
+Anti Tamper circuits (Rating 4)
+Keypad
+Biometric Reader (Voice with password). Data is stored directly in Van to increase security.
Commlink:
Erika Elite
Mangadyne Deva OS
+Datasoft (Rating 6) (Medical Journal Database)
+Datasoft (Rating 6) (Medical Procedures: Implants and Repairs)
+Datasoft (Rating 6) (Combat Medic Field Guide)
+Encrypt 6
+Browse 6

Equipment:
Certified Credstick (gold)

Headphones
+Audio Enhancement (Rating 3)
+Select Sound filter (Rating 3)
+Spatial Recognizer

5x Plasteel restraints
3x Containment Manacles
Autopicker (Rating 6)
Wire Clippers
Flashlight
2x Magnesium Torches
Respirator (Rating 6)
Survival Kit
Medkit (Rating 6)
10x Medkit Supplies
10x Trauma patches
5x Antidote Patches (Rating 6)
5x Stim Patches (Rating 6)
Biomonitor
5x Narcojet
5x Disposable Syringes
4x Light sticks
Mini wielder
Shop Tools (Medical)
Fake License (Rating 4) (Medical License)
Fake License (Rating 4) (Health Inspector)
Glue Sprayer
Grapple Gun
300 m standard rope
Rappelling Gloves
Gecko Tape Gloves

Lifestyle:
Low x 2


Spells:
Heal
Stabilize
Hibernate
Oxygenate
Diagnose
Physical Barrier
Armor
Detect life Extended
Levitate
Sandstorm

Contacts:
Corporate Spy (L:2, C:5) - Adel Mustafa
Smuggler (L:4, C:3) - Alayna Tindell

The second is a technomancer who I built to be a bit more useful in combat and back up our main hacker who uses mostly technical skills. His father was a 1st generation otaku so when he ended up having these powers as well his father, though at this point completely faded, started training him. He showed a less then stellar affinity for the summoning of sprites but found no problems with other tasks. His mother however thought it unhealthy for him to sit in front of a computer all day, not literally of course since he didn't need one, and when he wasn't with his dad learning how to crack a system he was with his mom or friends getting well needed exercise. Things then took an ugly turn when an old friend of his dads came to visit asking a favor. They needed an unknown face to get some data from one place to another but wanted a physical carrier for security reasons. Akachi Volunteered to test his abilities and while his parents greatly disagreed he snuck out, hooked up with his fathers old running mate, and delivered the data. Needless to say his parents were disappointed. They had taken incredibly dangerous missions in their own days so their son wouldn't have to but it seemed running the shadows ran in the family and Akachi wouldn't take no for an answer. He is now going through live fire training with his dads old team. After all what better way to learn then to face actual combat. Left out most of the stuff of his family being runaways from Aztlan but don't want to bore you with to many details.

Akachi Akinsanya (Igbo, when put together correctly his name means The Avenging hand of God)
Age: 19
Race: Human - Technomancer

Attributes:
Body: 3
Agility: 3
Reaction: 3
Strength: 2
Charisma:2
Intuition: 4
Logic: 4
Willpower:5

Edge: 2
Resonance: 5
Initiative (Matrix): 7(9)
Initiative Passes (Matrix): 1(3)
Essence: 6

Active Skills:
Cracking skill group (Cybercombat, Electronic Warfare, Hacking) - 4
Hardware - 3
Computer - 3
Automatics (Assault rifle) - 3
Dodge (Ranged Combat) - 2
Climbing - 2
Infiltration (Urban) - 3
Automotive Mechanic (Anthroform) - 2
Compiling (Machine) - 2
Registering (Machine) - 2

Knowledge Skills:
English - N
Spanish - 2
Security Design (Matrix) - 4
Security Procedures (Megacorps) - 4
Corp. Security Tactics - 4
Data Haven - 4
Safe Houses - 3
Local Junkyards (Drone yards) - 4

Positive Qualities:
Technomancer

Admin VI - Another bit of home brew stuff. Basically its the technomancer equivalent of a mentor spirit. I was wondering if something like this may exist in Unwired? I have yet had a chance to check it out so if this already exists thanks in advance. We changed some stuff and put every complex form under some type since not all of them had one. Also since Complex forms can be anywhere between 1 - 10 the rule is + 1 to complex forms, + 2 to sprites. Would also like some sort of input on this.
Mechanist AI: +1 to Data Stream forms, + 2 to Machine Sprites. I cant remember his weakness at the moment since our GM has the information.

Negative:
SINer (Aztlan)
Allergy unc/sev (Hyena fur) picked up while visiting mothers side of the family.
Sensitive system

Weapons:
FN HAR
+Shock Pad
+Imaging scope
+Vision Magnification
+ Thermographic
+Low Light
+Flare Compensation
+Vision Enhancement (Rating 3)
5x sound suppressors
25x FN tracer clips

HK MP-5 TX
+Laser Sight
+ACOG scope.
5x sound suppressors
25x MP 5 tracer clips
2x flash packs
5x fragmentation grenades
5x high explosive grenades
5x Narcojet gas nade
10x smoke nades
10x thermal smoke nades

Armor:
3x regular clothes
Chic clothing
Armor clothing
Armor Jacket
Helmet
Chameleon Suit
+ Non Conductivity (rating 3)
+ Thermal Dampeners ( rating 4)
+ Chemical Protection (rating 4)
+ Insulation (rating 3)
+ Fire Resistance (rating 3)

Vehicles and Drones:
Suzuki Mirage
+Rigger Adaptation
+Firewall (Rating 6)
+ System (rating 6)
+Pilot (Rating 2)

Steel Lynx
+Firewall (Rating 6)
+ System (rating 6)
+Pilot (Rating 4)
+Ingram White Knight (Belt fed)
15x Ingram White Knight Ammo belts (with tracers)
+Targeting Heavy Weapons Autosoft (rating 6)
+Maneuver Anthroform Autosoft (rating 6)
+Clearsight Autosoft (rating 6)
+Electronic Warfare Autosoft (rating 6)
+Defense Autosoft (rating 6)

MCT Fly Spy
+Firewall (rating 6)
+System (rating 6)
+Pilot (rating 3)
+Clearsight Autosoft (rating 4)
+Maneuver Aircraft Autosoft (rating 5)

Commlink:
Transys Avalon
+Holo Projector
+Satellite Link
+Subvocal Microphone

OS: Renraku Ichi
+Browse (Rating 6)
+Mapsoft (rating 6

Equipment:
Certified Credstick (gold)
Headphones
+Audio Enhancement (Rating 3)
+Select Sound filter (Rating 3)
+Spatial Recognizer

Mage Sight Goggles
+Vision Magnification
+ Thermographic
+Low Light
+Flare Compensation
+Vision Enhancement (Rating 3)

10x Plasteel Restraints
5x Containment Manacles
Autopicker (Rating 6)
Cellular Glove Molder (rating 3)
miniwelder
Wire clippers
Climbing Gear
Flashlight
Gecko tape gloves
Rappelling Gloves
10x magnesium torch
Respirator (Rating 6)
Grapple Gun
300m standard rope
10x narocjet
10x disposable syringes
Fake Sin (Rating 4)
Fake License (Rating 4) (Matrix Security Contractor)
Tool Kit (Mechanics tools)

Life style:
Middle x 2

Complex Forms: In an effort to even out technomancers a bit our GM didn't want our forms higher then our Res, though we can push it and suffer stun, and if we push it farther, physical damage.
Exploit (5)
Attack (5)
Armor (5)
Command (5)
Analyze (5)
Stealth (5)
Edit (5)
Scan (5)
Spoof (5)
Track (5)
ECCM (5)
Biofeedback Filter (4)

Contacts:
Is so new he hasn't had a chance to make any.


So any pointers?

Hello and welcome to the forums!

Let's see what we can do here...
I'll stick to the mage, as i'm no matrix expert (yet).
I'll also leave out the equipment, but you might want to rearrange that.

The following points will, in the usual dumpshock fashion, lead to a relatively generic build.
I'll also adress only reasons of mechanic efficiency, as i can hardly judge what you would like stylistically.
So, i'll leave out what would best fit your character.
One exception, though : usually, people discover their magical talent much earlier, as it usually starts to show at puberty and there's frequent testing in schools- there are exceptions, though, but to get decent magic skills, you'll need some years of training, you might want to keep that in mind when writing up your backstory.
Even though there is something to the shellshock idea, i must admit.


But let's get to the number crunching.
As i said, it will mostly be general advice, feel free to heed or ignore it as you see fit.
For a first time build, this looks really good, but in a game as complex as SR, there's a lot of potential pitfalls.
Here we go :

The main problem i see with your mage is that he's really week on drain.
Healing spells can hurt a lot as far as drain is concerned if the guy you're healing is severely wounded, you'll get a terrible headache with LOG and WIL at that level.
Bump both up to 5 if possible.

I'd also strongly advise against starting with Magic at 6, as it costs 25 precious build points, but only 18 karma once the game has started.

Edge 1 will also hurt.
No rerolls for you, as you have to save it for a possible use of escaping certain death (which would lead to Edge 0 in your case...).

Besides that, solid attributes.
Keep Body at 4 if possible.

Metatype : you might envision your character as an elf, if you want to play one, keep it that way.
If it is not of that much interest to you, change it to dwarf.
The bonus to Body is really useful, but the +1 on Willpower is it what makes dwarves the ideal choice for non-Charisma-based traditions.
The elf, on the other hand, gives you stat boosts you don't really need and also don't use in your concept, as you have left both attributes at racial minimum.
Unless you really want to play an elf, that's 30 points that are totally wasted.

Skills : The skill selection is very limited.
You lack Dodge, Perception and social skills, which is all potentially dangerous.
I would try to get them at low levels to avoid potential disaster.

You completely miss out on Summoning and Binding, two of the most powerful skills you have access to.
Even if you don't bind spirits, but only get summoning, it's like bringing an additional team member along.
Spirits rock, believe me.
You also don't seem to care about astral space, having neither Assensing nor Astral Combat.
Personally, i'm a huge fan of astrally projecting to scout for the team and making massive use of spirits.
If you are the only mage on the team, lack of these aspects will limit the team, but you'd have to read up on a bunch of rules.
I'd recommend it, though.

I'd also don't bother with guns, as you can waste enemies with combat spells.

Which brings us to the next point : spells.

I assume you are only using the basic rules and not Street Magic?
In that case, i'll stick to core spells only, of course.
Stunbolt is extremely useful.
Quickly drops most enemies without killing them, low drain, gotta love it.
Possibly combined with other spells, you wont need guns at all.
Control manipulations such as influence are also particularly nasty.

An extremely good spell would also be increase reflexes- you can easily get 4 Initiative passes with that, which will greatly, greatly expand your usefulnes in combat.
With your focused concentration quality, you'll only suffer -1 to your dice pools for that, but you could still think about getting a spell lock for healing spells, cast it into the spell lock and walk around with more passes than a starting street sam without suffering -1 to your pools.
Spell locks, like all foci, however have their downsides.
They mean that you are active on the astral plane as long as they are activated, which can cause problems with wards and the like.
Problem you won't be able to solve without skills for the astral- if your character would get a spell lock now, without the Assensing skill, you would risk walking into a ward with the activated spell lock, triggering an alarm that could ruin the entire run.
If you don't want to focus on astral space and no one else wants to do this for you, stay away from foci.


One last point : for your homebrew mentor, do you get two choose two of the three spell categories?
Normally, you get 2 boni at +2 and one downside.

Allright, that's it for now.
We'll see if someone takes care of your technomancer.

Having a mage or a hacker with an edge of 1-2 will bite you in the ass. Especially the mage. You need 2-3 for a mage. 4 edge for a mage is preferred. The mentor spirit is a bit... interesting, but it might not fly with your GM and also it can really bite you in the ass (again because of low edge.) Skill groups can only go up to four in character generation. What type of mage is he? Have you considered getting a bit of cyber/bioware? Mages in the beginning can highly benefit from it during CG. What type of mage is it, because I might suggest you take less weapons, shift your points around a bit and increase your willpower and the stat linked to your spellcasting.

I second the dwarf. Dwarves make excellent mages, and if you are a relative newcomer to Shadowrun, it might help you a lot, especially for your concept of a more spellslinger type.

Also: other skills. Perception and Dodge are good ideas. At least rating 2 for each of them(or even 1(2+) for Dodge(Ranged) if you can.)

Otherwise, it does look fairly solid overall.

I'm not too good at Technomancers, so Ill also wait til someone can come in; but I can second taking Perception for them, too.

perception, assensing, dodge, summoning are all nice skills to have for a mage. From what I have learned in mage making.

Humans are what I would call "meh" as a mage.

Elves make good shamans, but are generally not the best mages.

Orcs are great for their strength and body dump stats.

Dwarfs make some of the best mages all around.

Trolls are awesome if you want to make an overcasting mage.

Generally trolls are not the best mages, but over time can be very very deadly as they have the stats to bring the hurt, but are total karma hogs. However having a very high body allows them to take a licking and keep on ticking when being shot at repeatedly. Having a body 7 troll means you slap on 14 armor on him and he can take quite a hit (plus a troll in full body armor holding a gun does not quite look like a caster.) If you are aiming for mediocre stats I would switch the elf with a troll as it's stats will take you a lot farther then the elf.

Thanks for the input. The thing you need to know though is that I’m not the main mage. My mage character is more of a combat medic then a straight up mage and since his powers showed up rather late in life I thought to save time he would focus on the things he needs that being healing and backing up the others. The other mage in our group is the real caster. I’m more of the guy who gives cover fire, runs up close to patch up wounds, and if need be supports the other mage. Summoning, Binding, spec’d in combat, has the phoenix mentor to boost his combat and fire spirits, etc. Also the mentor I use is just a modified version of the Dark Mother from Street magic. I just replaced combat with detection and made it less jerkish. The mother gives plus +2 to Health and combat but makes the mage basically start fights all the time. Mine is +2 health, then +2 to either Combat or Detection (must choose one) and the person must make saves against trying to rescue an innocent person in danger.

I do have street magic but like I said I chose most of my spells to either make me a better doctor or support the others in some way. The other mage takes care of all the astral stuff and nuking. She’s a glass cannon with 2 brick walls (an orc and a troll) in front of her, me behind her with a heal spell and a med kit, and our stealthy girl making sure no one flanks us.

As for the stats I see what you mean and I will edit that. I didn’t really think of drain and I’m glad you caught that for me. The body was the priority for me since I would probably be closest to the front keeping people patched up during and after a fight. I was thinking of replacing pistols with shotguns because up close they would be a lot more effective. I plan on getting combat spells later but until then I need to use those 10 slots for other things. Half my spells are health for a reason. I was thinking of taking decrease initiative but ended up taking armor over that though I may change that in the future. His astral abilities won’t come into play for some time since he gained his powers late in life and since then has focused on spells to help people instead of kill them.

I was thinking of giving him some implants since he isnt the nuker of the group he would have nothing to lose. For a moment forget he is a mage and think of him as a combat medic. Which implants would you take? I want to keep him with enough essence so his magic stays at a 5 and yes I will be taking that point and putting it in other places later.

I never really understood the importance of edge until now and the reason I’m playing elf, I actually did want to play a dwarf with a Napoleonic complex, is story wise. My GM didn’t force it on me or anything like that; I basically did it as a favor. We needed an elf and he preferred not making a NPC so I volunteered to help him out. He promised me a few percs because of my sacrifice though. There’s a stigma in our group about elves, except Legolas. I didn’t even like Lord of the Rings THAT much but he was pretty BAMF for a dandelion.

Well, then that's fine.



Keep in mind that you have a whole bunch of mundane healing at your disposal as well.
Also, the sandstorm spell will make blood run out of your ears if yo cast it with your drain stats.
Elemental combat spells are cool, in spite of what other people might tell you, they do have their uses, but they are terribly difficult to cast without sucking up some drain.
At least get fetishes for that spell if you want to keep it, they'll help a great way as they decrease drain by 2.

Personally, i'd swap it for something else, though.
You can shoot drones and vehicles (the main targets for elemental combat spells) with your rifle, you're good enough at that.

Mana static is extremely useful as a battlefield control spell if you are going up against enemy spellcasters or spirits.

If you want more healing, consider pain resistance, that can be very helpful.
Like stim patches, only better, as it also applies to physical damage and doesn't give you additional damage when it wears off.
If you've got a chance to sink the drain to zero (which is possible if you don't have taken too many boxes of damage), you can use it to negate some drain effects, too.
Or you can keep the frontliners going if you can't patch them up completely (BTW, remember that first aid is useless if you apply magical healing first- always try first aid, then the heal spell).

Decrease [attribute] is woth looking into, too.
Best debuff in the book when you choose a stat that doesn't get much boni from 'ware and metatype.
Decrease [willpower] is perfect to soften up targets for your other mage, make them more vulnerable to stun or probably even just make them stand around brainlesly.

All these spells would work perfectly for your role as supporter.



Taking implants makes blowing the 25 points for maxed-out Magic slightly more worthwile.
But on the other hand, you could as well save that for later.

As far as implants are concerned, i'd strongly suggest bioware, as you've got sensitive system (and those 15 BP won't hurt, right?).

Synaptic boosters are expensive, but a worthwile investment.
Additional Initiative passes are pure gold.
If you don't get them, there's still the possiblity to learn increase the reflexes spell later, though.


If you have access to Augmentation, you absolutely have to take a look at the trauma damper on p.70.
At 0.2 Essence you get an implant that extremely enhances your drain-resisting abilities as well as your resistance against other damage.

Your drain stat is Logic, right?
Cerebral boosters where practically made for you.
Plus, all your medical skills are linked to Logic, too!
And they only cost you 10.000 per level.
I'd at the very least get level 1, if not 2.

Cybereyes can be useful, but you've already got low-light vision and with the sensitive system, they could be too expensive Essence-wise.



Sounds as if it could be worth the 30BP...


Oh, and i've also seen that you have taken the biotech skill group.
I would go for seperate skills and leave out the cybernetics stuff, unless your GM is fond of damaging cyberware.
In that case, you'll save 8 BP for the same effect.

I know this guy isn't a front-line type, but support specialists need to be good at what they do, too. All kinds of ways you could make him better, here's one:

Lose that expensive 6th point of magic, and both of your gun skills. That gives you 57 build points. Move a point from Agility (reducing it to 2) and spend 20 more points to get Logic and Willpower up to 5. Spend 12 BP to buy and bond a rating: 2 power focus. Spend 20 BP to raise Edge to 3. Take the fetish limitation for your higher-Drain spells. 5 BP left for whatever you want. If you can find 1 more BP somewhere, you could buy and bond a force: 3 counterspelling/combat spell focus. Or you could take another 5-point flaw, such as nano-intolerance or sensitive neural structure, to get 10 BP to raise an Attribute or gain another point of Edge.


Now you're rolling 1 more die on mundane and magical healing, and have 10-12 dice to soak Drain, and you have a normal Edge. Spell-wise, I would recommend replacing hibernate with the more generally useful prophylaxis (the face who has to match shots of vodka with the Vory troll will thank you. ), and replacing sandstorm with the lower-Drain and more generally useful stunball. I would not recommend any of the reduce Attribute spells in combat - they are touch spells, making them difficult to apply.

Thanks that helps a lot and I will edit him accordingly. I can always replace sensitive system with something else of a similar cost so I can augment him without to much worry. On a slightly unrelated note has anyone ever tried an adept hacker build? I was just wondering if that could even work.

If you expect to cast Heal in combat, with teammates in serious danger, then you're not gonna use First Aid in those cases. Once a Heal spell closes the wound, however imperfectly, stitches will not help.

If you want the PC to be an elf and a spellcaster, consider shamanism over hermetic magic. Going shaman means that charisma becomes the drain stat, and elves have bonus to charisma. Once logic is no longer your drain stat, you may still want it for skill use, but you could get by with low LOG and a good medkit.

If you summon a Spirit of Man with the heal spell as its innate power, then you can have it cast Heal and *it* takes the drain, not you. (Same applies for any other high-drain spell you know.)

Mage first. Rasumichin has written a really good intro post on DS chargen advice there, keep it in mind.

Second what Glyph said...



You don't have to replace sensitive system, as it doesn't apply to bioware.
And all the mentioned implants are bio, except for cybereyes, which you are not as dependent on being an elf.

You might want to redistribute some of your ressources, as some bioware can be expensive, but you'll only suffer normal Essence loss.


And yes, adept hackers can work.
In fact, it is easier to build a good adept hacker than a good technomancer, even though the TM can be better in the matrix wth enough karma.
You'll need about 80.000 for your comlink and programs and two skill groups and you're fine.
Combine this with adept boni to your most important skills (technical skills cost only 0.25 per bonus point!) and you'll completely devestate most systems.
Consider getting the sustenance power, it costs only 0.25 points and allows you to go with only 3 hours of sleep at night, a real plus if you try to carefully hack a system, which takes a lot of time.
Some of the mental powers in Street Magic can be fun, too.

I recommend one of the tougher races.
Orks or trolls would be no big problem, as your mental stats don't matter when using programs.
If you also want to be the techie guy, go dwarf.


Also, you'll want a secondary focus for this character, something he can learn besides hacking, as he will soon be good enough at this.
Rigging is recommendable, as you'll already have the electronic part covered.

Wow I wasn't expecting this much help. Thanks a lot, you really helped me get a better idea of how to make a character. Maybe now my characters will live long enough to see retirement.

I'd thought I jump in here and add a test Character to see what people think, by the way we house rule our adepts with double magic rating for powers. The character concept is really not fully developed by I think this will help.

Concept/background: Martial Art Adept, Edgar specializes in his native martial art (eskrima) focusing on the bladed aspect of the system. Edgar is a SINer (Fight Coach) by day and Runner by night.

Name: Edgar Decampo "Pony"
Age: 22
Race: Human (Filipino)

Attributes:
Body - 4/6 Agility - 4/6 Reaction - 4/6 Strength - 3/6 Charisma - 3 Intuition - 4 Logic - 3 Willpower - 3

Edge - 4 Magic - 5 Initiative - 10 Passes - 3 Essence - 6

Active Skills:
Athletics (group) - 2, Stealth (group) - 3, Blades (martial arts/eskrima) - 5/6, Dodge - 3, Etiquette - 2, First Aid - 2, Perception - 3, Throwing Weapons - 2, Unarmed Combat (martial arts/eskrima) - 3/4

Knowledge Skills:
Greater Seattle knowledge - 3, Small Unit Tactics - 4, Magic - 4, Megacorporate Security - 3, Occult Knowledge - 2, Folklore & Mythology - 2, Tagalog Native, English - 3.

Qualities:
Martial Arts 3 (15), Allergy (Soy, Severe)(+20), Addiction (Stimulates, Moderate)(+10),SINer (+5), Adept (5).

Martial Arts Maneuvers:(12)
Disarm, Finishing Move, off-hand training, Set-up, Two Weapon style, kick attack.

Martial Art - Eskrima: Advantages - +1 die on Called Shots to disarm, +1 DV on Blades attacks, May inflict damage to their opponent when making a called shot to disarm.

Adept power: *note we house rule this area a lot so there is a reduced cost and increased points.
Improved Reflexes II, Enhanced Perception R4, Improved Combat Ability (Blades) R4, Imp. Phys. Att. Strength R3, Imp. Phys. Att. Body R2, Imp. Phys. Att. Agility R2, Mystic Armor R2, Killing Hands.

Resources: 30,000 nuyen

(we also use the Charisma in free contact points)
Contacts: Fixer 2/3, Talismonger 2/3

Adjusted Adept Powers costs (if not listed then the cost has not changed):
Distance Strike 0.5
Gliding 0.5
Great Leap 0.25
Improved Combat Ability [Skill] 0.25
Imp. Phys. Attribute 0.5
Traceless Walk۞ 0.5
Wall Running۞ 0.5

Our house rule for adept power points is twice you magic rating.

(edited to include some design elements)

Ok there we go,
Thanks,
Brent

It helps if you put what your natural stat is and then bracket that stat to show the improvements you made in that stat. Personally I think it is hard to ask for help to build a character when you have house ruled magic and not told us how much each costs, and what is reduced, and what other powers are reduced magic point wise. There is also no background to your character, which I find somewhat disheartening when trying to help out your build. There needs to be somewhat of a concept that will allow us to help sculpt "Pony."

The easiest thing I can spot is make him a troll not a human. You will save a lot of BP this way. You could even give him human looking as a positive trait and still have a lot of BP left over to play around with.

Looking at it I don't see how being a Troll will save me BP's, it really will only save me power points.

I also edited my post above to add some of the things you were asking for.

Thanks,
Brent

Under normal circumstances, this would be vital...your houserule is...quite adept-friendly, to say the least.
*shrugs* Well, to each his own.

I'd still suggest a stronger race for a melee build.
I'd recommend ork as an alternative to the troll- assuming you don't want to change any stats and take the human looking quality (which isn't available to trolls, masterofm), you'll save 10 points and have much higher attribute maximums and low-light vision for free.

Honestly, with that STR and BOD, your character will have some troubles in melee combat.
Keep in mind that he relies entirely on STR-based weapons.

See, the problem is that you already have the disadvantage of using a complex action for all of your attacks.
And it is in general also easier to defend against melee attacks.
Someone with a gun attacks twice as often as you, has better reach and will by now often do comparable, if not better damage on each attack while not having to close up with the opponent first (okay, you can throw something at them in the meantime, that's a good start at least).
Your character will likely be at the front slugging it out with the opposition, and they will pump him full of lead (my advice : improve your stealth skills, get ruthenium polymer armor with thermal insulation and sneak up on them).
You have to drop these suckers as fast as possible, or they'll drop you.

And by now, this might take too much time and might get you killed in the end.

I don't know how your GM handles combat, what kind of enemies he brings up and so on.
Considering how he gives out power points, he seems to be of the extremely generous variety and my concerns won't be an issue at all.
In that case, just go ahead and try.

As i wrote upthread, DS build advice will usually lean towards tried-and-true, but relatively standardized options, which might not be that interesting to every player.
I personally enjoy concepts that don't utilize all of the most optimal choices, as i like a little challenge as well as trying out something new with every character.

View our comments just as reminders of what would in general be likely to cause trouble.

Oh, and one more thing : Improved Combat Abbility is at 4.
By the errata, this would not be possible anymore.
There's still some debate about how to handle it exactly, but in any case, you couldn't improve a skill by more than +3 (and according to some interpretations, you'd need to have the natural skill value at 6 to do even this), unless you have also houseruled it.
I'd simply shift the last point over to Throwing Weapons, as it would give you a bit more versatility in combat.

It takes 30 BP to raise your body to 4 and 20 bp to raise your str to 3. A troll is 40 bps and gives you 5 str and 5 body right off the bat. It makes your character a 7 body 8 str and saves you 10 bp. Take 5 of that and make your character "human looking" and take 5 bp and blow it on whatever you want. Or you know spend that 10 bp on the point of edge you will lose if you make a troll and be fine that your character looks like a large troll. So yes it does save you bp not power points. Although you could just have your stats be lowered by 1 and 2 respectively and spend 10 bp more on your character. I mean that makes sense right? Right?

Beyond that if I can't get a concept and background for your character I can't help you shape it better.

Trolls are the only standard metatype that can't get human-looking.
When you're two and a half meters tall on average (or 2,70, according to RC, or over 3 meters, according to the average troll player in SR3 ), have shovel-like hands dangling below your knees and are built like a walking piece of furniture, it's hard to pass as human, even if you remove the horns, tusks and dermal armor and get dental work to be able to speak without sounding like your mouth is full of hot potatoes.

Well then he spends his 10 bp for that extra point of edge now doesn't he? = )

If he played a troll, he wouldn't need to spend 2.5 points boosting his Body and Strength with power points, and could get something else with it (such as upgrading improved reflexes to 3 and getting a point of counterstrike). Plus, the troll's reach basically gives an extra die in melee, and you get a point of dermal armor for free, too. Despite their lower cap on Agility, trolls remain the optimum choice for melee pwnage.

But if he wants to remain human (less conspicuous, things are made for their size, etc.), I would still recommend he drop that last point of Strength increase - Strength: 5 does the same damage as Strength: 6, and is high enough that encumbrance should not be a problem. The 0.5 point saved can be spent on a point of counterstrike, letting him turn his successes from defending into a bonus to his next attack.

You should see some of the suites and the like for the Street Sam's, we pretty much power game cross the board.




I can see that and understand that premise. I even might have to try it out. But I’ve lasted this long in game with on the one of speed and skill superiority.



We live by the fact that anything we can come up with slay or cunning we can expect the enemy to do the same on us. Same with most of the bad guys operate at souped up as we do. So combat and the like are vary tactical or you don't last long.




Opps, I didn't see that I'll have to catch up on the errata.

Thanks,
Brent

I see that make sense, but you only recoupe those point if you don't spend your 200 limit out of 400 build.

thanks,
Brent

Right. For example:
Body - 5/6 Agility - 4/6 Reaction - 4/6 Strength - 5/6 Charisma - 3 Intuition - 4 Logic - 3 Willpower - 3
Edge - 4

This is an example of spending 40 points to be a troll, 150 on Attributes, and 10 to regain the lost point of Edge, so basically the exact same cost, overall, as your human. Only it only costs 1.0 points, instead of 2.5 points, to raise Body and Strength to 6. So that essentially gives you 1.5 more power points to spend. Also, you have +1 reach and a point of dermal armor. Purely numbers-wise, trolls are very effective at close combat.

A troll might not fit your idea of the character, though, since you seem (by choice of skills) to envision someone who is also good at sneaking and being inconspicuous when he has to be.