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Two things. I've got a party with 17 points of mage magic(total), several million in ware, ~=120 karma per character, etc. What this mean is the glass hammers have 'leveled' to the point that they can take a hit or two fairly safely. To put a little fear back in the game I was thinking about using some of the optional heavy damage rules. So I broke out Augmentation and found out that there actually aren't any hard mechanics. Yes there is the edge(1) test and the +7P mark, and a nice list of suggestions on what to do, but nothing concrete. Anyone have suggestions?

On a related note: Does anyone know where can I can find reference images of cleaned, but undressed wounds? (I'm looking at you Hyz!)
If you take 7 or more points of Damage from a single attack & fail an Edge (1) Test, you suffer an effect from the Heavy Damage list, chosen by the Game Master, dependent on what type of attack it was, & if any called shots are involved.

If you Glitch on a Damage Resistance or Healing Test, you suffer from one of the Severe Wounds, chosen by the Game Master, dependent on the circumstances. Same thing with a Critical Glitch.

How is this not concrete rules? It is quite clear how it works mechanically, and gives options for variable circumstances.
kzt can find many also.
QUOTE (kzt @ Aug 30 2008, 08:52 PM) * can find many also.

Must not look... dead.gif smile.gif
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Aug 30 2008, 07:06 PM) *
How is this not concrete rules? It is quite clear how it works mechanically, and gives options for variable circumstances.

Those are concrete triggers for a wound, and a concrete description of a wound, but not a concrete effect of a wound. What should being in shock mean mechanically? Should a concussion take a point of logic for a week? Are there meaningful treatments for concussion in 2070? If so what kind of a medicine / first aid test are we looking at. Those are final touches I was hoping to find in the RAW and they aren't there. So I'm asking dump shock if anyone cares to share there experience with such rules before I start blowing chunks out of the characters at my table.

oh and big thanks to kzt for the link.
Initial stages of shock are anixety, progressing to confusion and/or aggression/belligerence due to hypoxia. Slight increase in breathing rate and heart rate, progressing to marked tachycardia and rapid labored breathing. Skin pale to pale, sweaty and cool.

People in shock don't think well, and their decision making processes are hosed. They will do things like, when you ask for their driver's license, got and try to pry the license plate off their car. This is one of the reasons why it's hard to get people having a heart attack to go to the hospital, because they are not thinking clearly and can get irrationally angry when you try to convince them that it's a good idea.

Their fine muscle control is gone as they are shunting to the core, so their fingers are hypoxic. This is not that dissimilar to what happens in a life or death struggle (Which SR ignores...) to people's shooting. However typing, trying to do electronics work or lock picking isn't going to work well.
One of the characters in my campaign got shotgunned in the mid-leg/knee due to refusing to use cover (?) yesterday. After the combat, he was basically trying to run around everywhere, not understanding that his leg was probably utterly ineffective, reducing him to a limp at best-- I leave the psychological effects of wounds out of the game 'cos I'm nice, but don't try to pretend that gapping hole in your leg doesn't exist, mister.
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Aug 31 2008, 03:51 PM) *
What should being in shock mean mechanically?

-3 to all mental abilities for until the characters successes on a body+willpower(10, 10 minuet) test or receives a First Aid (4, 5 minuet) test? Say you have a cybered troll that eats a half dozen HE grenades and barely survives, what kind of penalities would you slap him with, and what would it take to get rid of them?

This is actually at the heart of my beef with 4th ed. Almost every mechanic requires you to wing fairly fundamental and far reaching mechanics. In over a year of GMing, I don't think I've gotten through a session without feeling like I needed to house rule something not because I didn't like the RAW, but that I felt it was to vague to actually run.
QUOTE (WeaverMount @ Aug 31 2008, 02:23 PM) *
what kind of penalities would you slap him with, and what would it take to get rid of them?

What would it take to get rid of them is easy. Bright lights and cold steel. Major trauma, if it needs treatment, needs surgical treatment. The liver lac that is bleeding at 25ml/min isn't going to get better on its own. Eventually he'll bleed out, as your abdomen can hold most of your blood volume as it swells up. Sometimes stab wounds and gunshots don't need treatment. But this is reflected in the game by the wound not doing significant damage.

Penalties depends on what kind of game you are trying to run. For a "realistic" effect, they should start at pretty major and get worse, with him losing consciousness's and eventually dying if not treated. People running around after severe trauma doesn't make it less likely to have something bad happen, it makes it more likely.
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