Full Version: Centering
I read in the fourms that centering can either lower you TN or add dice. What is the limit of how much it can lower TN or add dice? and on the lowering TN side will it lower your TN for drain to?
I suggest just snagging Magic in the Shadows and reading up on all the details yourself. The above is a really dumbed-down description of how Centering works, and explaining it here is going to be confusing without all the details, not to mention treading on copyright infringement. (It's okay to give a paragraph or two, but you're basically asking for an entire rules section.)
My gm took all the books with him when he went to IL on break and since I am in TN (Thats at least a 5 hr drive prolly more) and my attempts to contact him have failed I am forced to rely on the knowledge of people like yourself. All I an reall looking for is a number and yes or no Example ( centering can lower your TN by a max of 4 or add dice by a max of 4) (Yes centering can lower yout TN for drain or No it cannot lower your TN for drain)
In that case, it's limited by your Active and Artistic Skill levels.
ohh so lets say i have a centering skill of six and a ti Ch skill of six i could lower my Tn by six?
No. How much your TN gets reduced depends on how well you do on the test, just like everything else in SR. There are no freebies. The only limiting factor is how much dice you roll.
Note that it can't genuinely lower your TN, it only removes penalties (such as wound penalties, visibility penalties, and the penalty caused by sustaining additional spells)
If someone has a willpower of 6 your TN to mannabolt them would be 6 and no amount of centering can lower it below 6. (although it may lower it *down* to 6 from 8-9 if you were on a +2-3 from a wound or something)
Basically the mechanic, called Centering Against Penalties is as follows:
Calculate the spell's TN (Base TN + Penalties)
Subtract Initiate Grade (BaseTN + Penalties - Grade)
Roll (Centering skill)d6
Pair the dice off that rolled above the TN with subtracted initiate grade
For each pair, you can subtract 1 from the spells TN (but you can't go below the Base TN for the spell)
Hope that helps. It probably won't.
If someone has a willpower of 6 your TN to mannabolt them would be 6 and no amount of centering can lower it below 6. (although it may lower it *down* to 6 from 8-9 if you were on a +2-3 from a wound or something)
Basically the mechanic, called Centering Against Penalties is as follows:
Calculate the spell's TN (Base TN + Penalties)
Subtract Initiate Grade (BaseTN + Penalties - Grade)
Roll (Centering skill)d6
Pair the dice off that rolled above the TN with subtracted initiate grade
For each pair, you can subtract 1 from the spells TN (but you can't go below the Base TN for the spell)
Hope that helps. It probably won't.
where'd that part about subtracting initiate grade come from?
I read it. Nevermind 
yeah. i missed that little tidbit during my whole first and second initiatory grades.
so it wouldnt be usefull for my character to use it for conjuring spirits I.E. lowering the traget number of a force 6 spirit to 3
As was said, you can only use it to eliminate penalties, not lower the original TN itself. If you were Conjuring a Force 6 Spirit while Moderately Wounded, you could use Centering to reduce your +2 TN penalty from the wound, making your TN 6 instead of the 8 that it would otherwise be in that situation.
what about adding dice? Couldi useit to add dice to the act of conjuring
yes. in that case, Centering acts as a complimentary skill.
Heres another question is centering worth it.
it's one of the out-and-out most useful metamagics one can acquire. but beyond that, not so much.
Lowering TNs is generally good. Therein lies Centering's uber-usefulness.
if it cannot lower the target numbers below the base then it is of no use to me I.E. a force 6 spirit with a TN of 3
Spoken like a true newbie. 
indeed. even if it can't lower the TN to summon that spirit, it can help offset the drain from summoning it.
There's absolutely no reason why any awakened charater shouldn't learn Centering. It is, without a doubt, the single most versatile and useful metamagic. In the hands of any sorceror or conjuror, it's powerful; in the hands of an adept or physmage, it's damn scary-- it amounts to a complimentary skill for almost anything they want it for.
Ic so i could center before conjuring and offset the drain for it beforehand so i would have more die for summoning
Versatile and useful, yes. BUT you get access to the actual centering skill as opposed to the artistic-linked skill only after you initiate and you take Centering as a metamagic tech. Pumping your actual centering skill takes some work.
well, sorta.
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| Ic so i could center before conjuring and offset the drain for it beforehand so i would have more die for summoning |
read up p73 of MITS.
Centering for success and centering against drain.
There is no requirement that a character has to have the Centering metamagic technique OR be an initiate to learn and develop their Centering skill; the only requirement is a Magic Attribute of 1. It just doesn't become "in-game" useful until after they've developed the technique.
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| My gm took all the books with him when he went to IL on break and since I am in TN (Thats at least a 5 hr drive prolly more) and my attempts to contact him have failed I am forced to rely on the knowledge of people like yourself. All I an reall looking for is a number and yes or no Example ( centering can lower your TN by a max of 4 or add dice by a max of 4) (Yes centering can lower yout TN for drain or No it cannot lower your TN for drain) |
in short telling me to read up on the books will not help me till at least january 16th thats when my GM brings the books back
| QUOTE |
| read up p73 of MITS. Centering for success and centering against drain. |
| QUOTE (Joker9125) | ||||
in short telling me to read up on the books will not help me till at least january 16th thats when my GM brings the books back
|
In other words, go buy those books yourself.
Right. There's a big difference between asking for some help understanding how rules work because you just can't figure them out and asking simply because unable or too cheap to buy a copy of the book for yourself. Be happy you got as much help as you have.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Right. There's a big difference between asking for some help understanding how rules work because you just can't figure them out and asking simply because unable or too cheap to buy a copy of the book for yourself. Be happy you got as much help as you have. |
Before someone tells me to go buy the book -- or rather, raid my GM's stock of books, simple question:
Is centering restricted to Active skills only?
-Siege
Siege, you can't honestly tell us you don't know...
Anyway, centering itself is Active, its linked skills are recommended to be non-Active skills. In fact, MITS recommends even if shooting a Pistol is taken as a linked skill, then a separate skill (Pistol Zen) is to be used instead of the Pistol Active skill.
Edit: Oops, I think I misunderstood. I think Centering is limited to Magical skills only, but it can be used for practically any skill if used by an adept. See p74 MITS
Anyway, centering itself is Active, its linked skills are recommended to be non-Active skills. In fact, MITS recommends even if shooting a Pistol is taken as a linked skill, then a separate skill (Pistol Zen) is to be used instead of the Pistol Active skill.
Edit: Oops, I think I misunderstood. I think Centering is limited to Magical skills only, but it can be used for practically any skill if used by an adept. See p74 MITS
It is my experience that the only help you ever ever get for summoning comes in teh form of foci or totem/other skill modifiers. Its intentionally difficult!
Negative on that, spotlite.
MITS, p73. "The initiate declares the skill use (sorcery, Conjuring, and so on) in the standard fashion..."
MITS, p73. "The initiate declares the skill use (sorcery, Conjuring, and so on) in the standard fashion..."
| QUOTE (spotlite) |
| It is my experience that the only help you ever ever get for summoning comes in teh form of foci or totem/other skill modifiers. Its intentionally difficult! |
D'oh. Not what I meant. But I phrased it very very badly. And was completely wrong in what I said which is even worse! Stupid Spotlite. Stupid! *beats head with SR3 Rulebook* I just wasn't thinking, don't know what came over me. Can't even remember what I was getting at now so I can't even re-phrase it! Except for the intentionally difficult bit. That's still true.
Anyway, echo what other people have said - nothing lowers conjouring target numbers, only adds dice or counters modifiers. So I don't know what all that nonsense about skills and totems and sh*t was, I really don't. Must've been some other Spotlite, yes, that's it, wasn't me, no...
But you could use an appropriate focus to get more dice for either drain or summoning. I suppose it IS possible that a particular magical tradition or totem would reduce target numbers for certain types of spirit, but I can't think of any off hand except maybe the paths in the old Tir Na Nog book, and I'm not certain about that. Maybe a wild magic effect, or special side effect of a power site or something, but I can't think of anything else which actually lowers the target number below the base number.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Siege, you can't honestly tell us you don't know... |
Heh. I never had an adept live long enough to worry about centering as an option.
-Siege
You must run some deadly games. Centering is the first thing I would pick up if I happen to be playing an adept.
| QUOTE (Rattler) |
| You must run some deadly games. Centering is the first thing I would pick up if I happen to be playing an adept. |
Truth be told, there are some serious personality clashes in the group as well as conflicting schedules.
Games tend to be haphazard at best and lately, if one went for more than five sessions, it was a record.
So my adepts didn't all end up splattered across the front page...literally...
-Siege
does an adept need to do something special to use Centering to resist drain from Attribute Boost?
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| does an adept need to do something special to use Centering to resist drain from Attribute Boost? |
Good question -- I would assume that being the time needed to Center would render it incapable of acting against the drain of Attribute boost.
Although I don't know of any canon rulings on the subject.
Do mages get to apply Centering against spellcasting drain? If so, I'd give it to the adept on principle.
-Siege
An adept centers against drain exactly like a mage does against drain. p73 MITS.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Right. There's a big difference between asking for some help understanding how rules work because you just can't figure them out and asking simply because unable or too cheap to buy a copy of the book for yourself. Be happy you got as much help as you have. |
I did have all the books on my computer but since ive been home my comp has crashed
. So I have to wait to use my GM's books and as far as going somewhere to buy them for myself a deer and a tree took care of my car. And i am very thanksful for all the wonderful help you people have given me thanks a bunch.
| QUOTE (Joker9125) |
| [I did have all the books on my computer but since ive been home my comp has crashed . |
Wouldn't that be *gasp* piracy?
yes, mages can center against drain, for successes. adepts can too, apparently, which pleases me greatly.
You can buy them on disk.
...i've never heard of that. where?
| QUOTE (spotlite) | ||
D'oh. Not what I meant. But I phrased it very very badly. And was completely wrong in what I said which is even worse! Stupid Spotlite. Stupid! *beats head with SR3 Rulebook* I just wasn't thinking, don't know what came over me. Can't even remember what I was getting at now so I can't even re-phrase it! Except for the intentionally difficult bit. That's still true. Anyway, echo what other people have said - nothing lowers conjouring target numbers, only adds dice or counters modifiers. So I don't know what all that nonsense about skills and totems and sh*t was, I really don't. Must've been some other Spotlite, yes, that's it, wasn't me, no... But you could use an appropriate focus to get more dice for either drain or summoning. I suppose it IS possible that a particular magical tradition or totem would reduce target numbers for certain types of spirit, but I can't think of any off hand except maybe the paths in the old Tir Na Nog book, and I'm not certain about that. Maybe a wild magic effect, or special side effect of a power site or something, but I can't think of anything else which actually lowers the target number below the base number. |
I can think of 3 things tyhat would lower a target number below base off the top of my head without the books. 1 Homeground -1 TN for all active skill tests, 2 Spirit Affinity (Fire, Earth, Water, Air) -1 TN for summoning spirits of that element, 3 Aptitude -1 TN with chosen skill. Together they could lower your base TN by 3 Force 6 spitit TN of 3
!!
Spirit Affinity doesn't give you a -1 modifier. Homeground and Aptitude do. Therefore the TN would be 4.
| QUOTE |
| Spirit Affinity doesn't give you a -1 modifier. Homeground and Aptitude do. Therefore the TN would be 4. |
I know I dont have my books but do ya got a page number on that? Im dead sure it does but I could just be dead wrong.
| QUOTE (Joker9125) | ||
I know I dont have my books but do ya got a page number on that? Im dead sure it does but I could just be dead wrong. |
Then you are dead wrong.
p 28 SR Comp There is no mention of someone with SA having an easier time summoning them
hmm musta skipped through that on my last readthrough of it thanks.
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