FlakJacket
Sep 9 2008, 05:31 PM
QUOTE
Farming in the SkyAgriculture is broken. Traditional techniques use too much energy and produce too little food for our growing planet. One fix: skyscrapers filled with robotically tended hydroponic crops and lab-grown meat.
By 2025, the world’s population will swell from 6.6 billion to 8 billion people. Climate simulations predict sustained drought for the American Midwest and giant swathes of farmland in Africa and Asia. Is mathematician Thomas Malthus’s 200-year-old prediction, that human growth will one day outpace agriculture, finally coming to pass? Advances in farming technology have kept us fed so far, but the planet’s resources are tapped.
The choice is clear—rethink how we grow food, or starve. Environmental scientist Dickson Despommier of Columbia University and other scientists propose a radical solution: Transplant farms into city skyscrapers. These towers would use soil-free hydroponic farming to slash demand for energy (they’ll be powered by a process that converts sewage into electricity) while producing more food. Farming skyward would also free up farmland for trees, which would help remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. Even better, vertical farms would grow food near where it would be eaten, thus cutting not only the cost but the emissions of transportation. If you include emissions from the oil burned to cultivate and ship crops and livestock in addition to, yes, methane from farm-animal flatulence, agriculture churns out nearly 14 percent of the world’s greenhouse-gas emissions.
Article Continued This came up on a mailing list that I'm on and I figured it had a certain Shadowrun-esqueness to it. It's certainly an interesting idea and with the Sixth World's technology levels would probably be easily doable. Be useful for locations like deep sea aquacologies, arcologies both large and small or possibly even just large residential areas as the world becomes more and more insular and walled off.
Tarantula
Sep 9 2008, 05:41 PM
I'm still amazed they haven't made "people food' much the same as "dog food" or "cat food". Comes in a variety of flavors, eat X amount per day, and you're fine, no need to worry about diet.
Adarael
Sep 9 2008, 07:11 PM
I think that's called ramen. I hear it's more "college student food" though.
Wesley Street
Sep 9 2008, 07:12 PM
QUOTE
I think that's called ramen. I hear it's more "college student food" though.
Ack! The sodium! My heart!
Hoo-ah! bars, MREs and all those other military ration things remind me of "people food." But they also work under the assumption that the person eating it is engaged in extreme physical activity every day. You'd need a variety of bars with differing caloric-intake needs. You don't want to give the computer programmer the same serving of People Chow as a lumberjack.
Tarantula
Sep 9 2008, 07:14 PM
Just do a calories per volume measurement. You measure off the amount you need for the day, and there you go.
(Something like baby formula would work too, add X powder with X water, mix, and theres your 3 bottles for breakfast lunch n dinner.)
Mr. Unpronounceable
Sep 9 2008, 07:18 PM
Isn't that the whole idea with SR's home soy-servs (just add the flavor of your choice!)?
Tarantula
Sep 9 2008, 07:23 PM
Maybe? It'd be nice it was around now though.
Synner667
Sep 9 2008, 07:43 PM
Soylent green !!
I imagine Kibble-for-people would be great for disaster areas - cheap, nutritious, easy to transport.
Interesting article, and not an idea I've come across before...
...Though, I did read an article about huge algae farms on the sea.
Wesley Street
Sep 9 2008, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 03:14 PM)
Just do a calories per volume measurement. You measure off the amount you need for the day, and there you go. (Something like baby formula would work too, add X powder with X water, mix, and theres your 3 bottles for breakfast lunch n dinner.)
Eh, you can't do a "you-weigh-this-much-you-get-this-much-food" measurement. That's why diets that restrict caloric in-take don't work, they leave the eater feeling perpetually hungry and weak. You've got to mix up the chemical intake of carbohydrates, vitamins, fiber, protein, etc. depending on what the consumer needs but make sure it fills the belly and gives energy. I drink a protein shake for breakfast (talk about baby formula!) but I can't
only consume that. Though theoretically I could for awhile before scurvy set in, I'd be one hungry monster all the time.
Tarantula
Sep 9 2008, 08:31 PM
Then how do dogs/cats who live off dog or cat food only survive without issues?
Wesley Street
Sep 9 2008, 08:50 PM
Because they're obligate carnivores. And because domestic dogs and cats don't have responsibilities outside of eating and pooping.
knasser
Sep 9 2008, 08:55 PM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 09:31 PM)
Then how do dogs/cats who live off dog or cat food only survive without issues?
You know how sometimes you could swear that you had a couple of pizzas left in your freezer but now there's only one and you
know that no-one else has been in your house so eventually you decide you must have just miscounted... And you know how sometimes the cat just wont eat what you give it and you curse and cajole because you can't work out why she isn't hungry...
EDIT: I have seen the article linked and I think it's great. I like that Shadowrun 4e has dropped some of the Technology is Evil theme that was more present in 1st / 2nd ed. (E.g. low essence = inhuman), because sometimes technology just rocks! I know it's still in there, but it's a more balanced take than it sometimes was.
Ol' Scratch
Sep 9 2008, 09:41 PM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 02:31 PM)
Then how do dogs/cats who live off dog or cat food only survive without issues?
Dog and cat food are nutritionally balanced. They're as much daily supplements as they are food. So if all they (or you) eat is dog food, you won't die of scurvy or anything like that. However, you can still eat too much or too little and still develop health problems as a result (hence fat dogs and cats waddling around).
Tarantula
Sep 9 2008, 09:52 PM
Thats exactly my point, why isn't there a mass produced nutritionally balanced foodstuff for people to eat thats cheap?
Mr. Unpronounceable
Sep 9 2008, 10:09 PM
Because doctors make too much money telling us mutually contradictive things every 20 minutes?
Milk is good, milk is bad, eggs are good, eggs are bad, fish is good, fish is bad. Ad nauseum.
Oenone
Sep 9 2008, 11:18 PM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 10:52 PM)
Thats exactly my point, why isn't there a mass produced nutritionally balanced foodstuff for people to eat thats cheap?
From what I've heard it's actually possible to live entirely from a diet of Guinness (as in the alcoholic drink) and fresh tomatoes. I'm not sure if it's the cheapest diet in the world, but it is apparantly quite good in terms of the nutritional balance.
Earlydawn
Sep 9 2008, 11:28 PM
Anybody else reminded of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri? Ultra-high atmosphere farms..
Jaid
Sep 10 2008, 02:31 AM
actually, there are still restrictions placed today on how much you are allowed to produce in first world countries. we haven't hit the limit of what we can produce yet.
sunnyside
Sep 10 2008, 03:25 AM
And here I thought this was going to be about elemental air...
Anyway I think SR already does the "people food thing" with the soy/yeast blocks. Probably they use GMOs to create something that has everything people need.
You just weigh out however much of it you need for daily calory intake and add flavorings from the dispenser.
knasser
Sep 10 2008, 07:34 AM
Soy has nothing on Quorn. Quorn was designed as a super-food for the on coming food shortages (that didn't happen when they were expected). Eventually it got marketed to vegetarians as posh meat substitute, but essentially it still has the potential to be a easy to produce staple food. It's more nutritious than soy, has a better protein balance, and for those people who are concerned about the ongoing soy-oestrogen debate, doesn't have any issues there, either.
If you want to be realistic in Shadowrun, then probably Quorn would be the basic instead of soy. But I like the flavour of having soy everything in SR. (Not the literal flavour, the atmosphere...).
Heath Robinson
Sep 10 2008, 08:26 AM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 10:52 PM)
Thats exactly my point, why isn't there a mass produced nutritionally balanced foodstuff for people to eat thats cheap?
Because pets have decisions made for them. Humans are much more interested in how much they enjoy their food than its nutritional balance. A benevolent dictator is not.
PBTHHHHT
Sep 10 2008, 08:41 AM
All these talks about people food and daily caloric intakes and such...
reminds me of an article I read within the last year, someone in one of the prison systems is suing his state because of what they're being fed. The prison is feeding those who are in solitary with this loaf that has all the nutrients and calories necessary for the prisoner for the day. They say it's great because it's inexpensive and also safer for the guards to dole out the loaf and their water rather than having to give the prisoner a tray and such. The prisoner is saying that the prison is punishing them with the loaf because of the taste and such and getting that day in and out for their duration in solitary. Can't seem to find the article right now, but it reminds me of the people chow comment people have made. Also similarly, the person in solitary isn't expected to do much other than eat and poop, not too far from the pet analogy.
edit: aha, here's the wiki article about it. I knew I'd eventually find some reference to it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_loafMmm... nutraloaf
Ol' Scratch
Sep 10 2008, 08:47 AM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 03:52 PM)
Thats exactly my point, why isn't there a mass produced nutritionally balanced foodstuff for people to eat thats cheap?
Uh, there is in Shadowrun. In the real world it's because it wouldn't sell very well because people like food that, you know, tastes good and has varied tastes. People don't want PeopleChow.
Shiloh
Sep 10 2008, 08:48 AM
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Sep 9 2008, 08:23 PM)
Maybe? It'd be nice it was around now though.
Nice?
Convenient, maybe. Nutritionally complete, perhaps. A tasty snack upon occasion, certainly. But "nice"?!
Declaration of interest: I r foodie.
Edit:
QUOTE (Dr. Funkenstein @ Sep 9 2008, 10:41 PM)
Dog and cat food are nutritionally balanced. They're as much daily supplements as they are food. So if all they (or you) eat is dog food, you won't die of scurvy or anything like that. However, you can still eat too much or too little and still develop health problems as a result (hence fat dogs and cats waddling around).
If all you ate was pet chow, and water all you drank, you'd certainly come down with scurvy in short order. Primates are fairly rare amongst mammals in not being able to synthesise ascorbic acid (vitamin C), so there will be little or no viatmin C in petfood. My Biochemistry was a long time ago, and I can't remember if there are other micronutrients that our furry companions can make that we can't. You'd also suffer from heinous constipation, but that's nothing new for a lot of heavy meat eaters out there.
paws2sky
Sep 10 2008, 12:56 PM
QUOTE (knasser @ Sep 10 2008, 03:34 AM)
If you want to be realistic in Shadowrun, then probably Quorn would be the basic instead of soy. But I like the flavour of having soy everything in SR. (Not the literal flavour, the atmosphere...).
Ah ha! I've never heard the brand name before, but
Quorn is apparently a
Mycoprotein, which is commonly used as a food stuff in Shadowrun.
Huh. Now I want to try this stuff, just to see what it tastes like. My guess is that, like tofu, it probably doesn't taste like much of anything until you flavor it.
-paws
Wesley Street
Sep 10 2008, 01:19 PM
Krill is also mentioned as a food stuff in
Shadowrun. Krill has been harvested as a food source for humans (called
okiami in Japan) and domesticated animals since the 19th century. The little buggers can be pressed into
big blocks for cooking or bait.
nezumi
Sep 10 2008, 01:27 PM
There are almost no foods currently on most store shelves which meet what you're asking for. However, there are several foods developed for that purpose; cheap food meeting all your nutritional needs.
The most obvious one is monkey chow. Monkey chow is formulated for large primates (which includes us - well, most of us anyway). They make it for zoos, but you can order large bags. They come in briquettes (not aware of any wet foods, sorry). Some guy made it a challenge to live on it for a week. He kept a video blog, the monkey chow diaries, if you want to see how he did.
Another food recently developed is called plumpy nut. It's made for starving kids, basically, so it may be a little high in carbs for most adults. It's a super cheap ($35/week), high-vitamin paste you eat with an enriched porridge. Between the two of them, it covers all of your necessary nutrients. However, it is not currently available in America (or, from what I can tell, anywhere other than starving African nations).
paws2sky
Sep 10 2008, 01:27 PM
Heh. Somehow krill seems less appealing to me. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't try it though.)
What about seaweed (nori)? I seem to recall from high school botany that all forms of seaweed are edible and fairly nutritious. Does anyone know what modern seaweed farming is like and if its economical to mass produce it?
-paws
PBTHHHHT
Sep 10 2008, 05:49 PM
QUOTE (paws2sky @ Sep 10 2008, 09:27 AM)
Heh. Somehow krill seems less appealing to me. (Doesn't mean I wouldn't try it though.)
What about seaweed (nori)? I seem to recall from high school botany that all forms of seaweed are edible and fairly nutritious. Does anyone know what modern seaweed farming is like and if its economical to mass produce it?
-paws
Seaweed, yeah they do produce the stuff on a mass scale, have you been to an asian grocery store with all the dried seaweed you can buy? I've eaten the stuff since I was a kid. Mass produce, definitely, they need it to match the sushi craze also. it's more that they probably have lots areas along the coast with something that allows for the seaweed to be grown/collected.
FlashbackJon
Sep 10 2008, 08:36 PM
It's incredibly healthy for [everyone, but specifically] growing children. You'll often see Japanese babies gumming a sheet of nori instead of a pacifier.
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