Now spirits of high force (8-12 lets say for the purpose of a SR mage) have a pretty good chance of becoming free spirits if someone is trying to bind a spirit and the mage is K.O.ed. Now I wonder are there mages who try to "bind" spirits with the actual plan of knocking themselves out intentionally to free the spirit? Is there anyway to not attempt binding, but to try and free a spirit besides having to knock yourself out.

Would a high force spirit have enough intelligence to see what the mage was trying to do? I mean if a mage tries to bind a spirit and pulls out a gun an puts 2-3 rounds of stick and shock in his/her unarmored chest after telling the spirit what the mage is trying to accomplish will a spirit with 8-12 logic, intuition, charisma, ect. be able to realize what the mages true intention was? Would they then still try to kill the mage on sight? Would this mage still take drain hits on trying to bind the spirit if the mage two minutes into the ritual and knocked him/herself out? Does all this stuff happen at the very end of the ritual? For instance the spirit can only be free if only after the whole ritual is completed and the mage ends up being knocked out from the drain. Would a spirit with 16-24 dice of judge intent realize the mages true goal in the whole ordeal?

Just thought it would make an interesting story if a toxic shaman was releasing (or trying to release) powerful free spirits by knocking him/herself out consistently and purposefully during a "binding ritual" or maybe even after the ritual.

problem with this:
the mage still knows the spirits real name, so he could try and bind/summon the same spirit evry time he wants to . .
it's like basically someone knows that you've got special need of batteries for your pacemaker and gets you to do things for you or else you won't get them anymore . .

Give him laes and make him forget the true name of the spirit - and the spirit formula

He is summoning spirits and trying to free them by binding them, and knocking him/herself. They are not free to begin with so how would he know their spirit formula or true name? You don't get both of these when you try to summon a spirit do you?

more to the point, there isn't any formula or true name for a spirit (in the rules, at least) until the spirit goes free. not only do you not know them by default, you actually don't even really have a way of gaining them.

No, there isn't. I'd even argue the spirit is rather free and happy before being summoned, and you're taking it out of its happy little home where its been, and dragging it to our plane, and then trying to throw a leash on it, but not really, and saying "I set you free!" will probably make it want to whallop you into the next life that much more. What happiness would the spirit have from being forcibly relocated and then "set free" when it already was free to do what it wanted before?


Mage would still take drain, always, no matter what. Still try to kill the mage? I'd say yes, you wouldn't like it if I had a group of guys nab you, drive you to austrailia, and give you citizenship and such, and go "there ya go, go be free."


I could see a toxic shaman doing this, but I still don't see the spirits being appreciative.

Could always perform a metaplanar quest to specifically find a spirit that would like to be brought to the physical world and set free.

Well, picture being suddenly yanked out of your environment and stuck somewhere else, a place where basically everyone was stupid (you have an 8+ Logic and Intuition; the average here is 3), looks weird, and most importantly is not on fire (assume for the sake of example that you are a fire elemental. Either you're going to be hella pissed or you're going to see it as a great opportunity to take advantage of all these weak, flammable dumbasses.

What I'm thinking is that the sort of spirit that doesn't mind being summoned is probably also the kind that is a bad idea to have around.

There's lots that would be interested. Especially certain Man, Guidance and Guardian spirits. Considering that a free spirit is, well, free to return home any time they please yet many stay around on the Sixth World of their own free will, there's obviously something they find interesting here. Hell, some even become shadowrunners apparently.

Is this theortically possible? Yes.
Would I bitch slap any player of mine that ever tried this both in and out of game? Also yes.

I think in the case of the toxic it would be a one shot deal. Because if the drain did not kill him the spirit would. Or at the least, the toxic shaman would be given the offer of spirit pact or death, thus preventing ever summoning another spirit.

You summon a toxic spirit and ask if it wants to be free on this realm. It says no. You release it. You try again it says no. You try a few more times until one says yes. You explain what you are going to do and basically release it. Now it is somewhat stupid, but at the same time releasing a spirit in this way might not kill you. However, this does not mean in any way that the spirit is tied to you or owes you anything. It is free to do whatever it wants and doesn't ever have to listen to you. Now it could kill you, but you did bring it to this plane when it did actually want to be freed here. It might spare your life, or it might not, but releasing spirits on the world could be a good thing or a bad thing. If a toxic shaman does it most likely it's for the bad. It is also risky as the mage could kill themselves, but on the other hand they can only do this once every few days (if they are lucky and have intensive care being administered to them) considering the kind of damage it would do to them.