I don't see a reason why not. It may take me a few weeks to prep but things look pretty good so far.
It's likely to be a lot more work than normal and have a very different play style.
I'll just have to wing it. Fortunately that's what I do best...
Full Version: Mary-Sue
awesome. In that case, I should have my character complete sometime tomorrow... I've got his free spirit buddy done... just working on some fine tuning for him.
oh! how many PP would it cost to give a spirit the Hidden Life Power?
oh! how many PP would it cost to give a spirit the Hidden Life Power?
Looking at the costs of other Powers I'd have to say at least 6. And you would only be able to take one Greater Power.
question! does the spirit pact "Magic Pact" work for adepts? Translation: will an adept with the Magic Pact gain PP equal to half the spirit's magic?
I can't see a reason why it wouldn't although I would limit you to taking the same powers every time you got 'powered up' in this fashion.
QUOTE (crizh @ Sep 30 2008, 03:54 PM) 
Spells that are Success Tests accumulate one hit per hit rolled in each interval. Resisted Spells accumulate net hits for each interval and are resisted as normal in each interval. Resisted Spells that are targeted against objects accumulate net hits in excess of OR for each interval.
I am curious why you added this. In the context of this potential game (& likely any game), I do not really care, because my characters would not use it in combat. However, combat applications (outside of very nich circumstances), the metamagic was crap anyways, & this addition removes even that nich potential. The complaints about it being to powerful where for out-of-combat applications, which this does not affect the vast majority of which. Not to mention the complications with Indirect spells - are you supposed to "lock on" with those, or do you have some other explanation?
On another note, would you allow the Astral Form spell I proposed in the teleportation thread? This is not a final version. If yes, what alterations would you suggest, if any?
Astral Form [Manipulation]
Type: M â—? Range: Touch â—? Duration: S â—? DV: (F/2)+5
This spell allows a character to shift their physical body onto the Astral plane. While sustained, the magician has no physical body, & follows the rules for Astral Forms (p.183, SR4). A character under the effects of this spell may remain astral for a number of Combat Turns equal to Force x Net Hits. If this time is exceeded, the character dies & their astral form dissipates.
If cast on an unwilling subject, the spell is resisted with Willpower (+ Counterspelling).
Drain:
Type
+0 â—? Mana Spell
Range
-2 â—? Touch
Duration
+0 â—? Sustained
Manipulation Spells
+2 â—? Major Change
+5 â—? Ad Hoc
If I knew how to build a character at 5k karma, and make it immortal I'd go for this...but I don't. Unfrotunately. I do wish the rest of you fun, and I like the builds/metamagics I've seen so far.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Oct 3 2008, 08:39 AM)
I am curious why you added this.
Because, taken to it's logical idiocy, resistance would be futile. Counter-spelling only barely keeps up with Spell-casting pool sizes as it is. If I were to allow Spell-casting to be an Extended Test that was only resisted once, mathematically, it would rapidly overwhelm Counter-spelling.
Indirect Spells is a good point, I can't really see a good reason for allowing Extended Casting to apply to them at all. I shall give it some thought.
No, no Teleporting.
It's not actually teleporting - just giving me the Free Spirit Astral Form ability at very high Drain values - doesn't even allow a Metaplanar Shortcut.
And Counterspelling can equal or exceed Spellcasting pools. As designed, it is very easy to resist a spell being cast with the Metamagic even without Counterspelling - simply step behind a wall.
And Counterspelling can equal or exceed Spellcasting pools. As designed, it is very easy to resist a spell being cast with the Metamagic even without Counterspelling - simply step behind a wall.
Counter-spelling can exceed Spell-casting but it is very unlikely to.
The example I have posted has 105 Dice for Spell-casting and 69 for Counter-spelling. I could drive Counter-spelling up to 105 Dice but it would cost another 198 Karma and would involve using two Foci, which is only barely legal, and would only apply to one 'category' of spell. I had considered trying to shoe-horn in a Combat Counter-spelling Focus but it was just too expensive compared to the Shielding Focus. The 'bang per buck' ratio was very low.
Going from point A in the real world to point B in the real world without passing through any of the intervening points in the real world.
Is Teleporting.
No, sorry.
The example I have posted has 105 Dice for Spell-casting and 69 for Counter-spelling. I could drive Counter-spelling up to 105 Dice but it would cost another 198 Karma and would involve using two Foci, which is only barely legal, and would only apply to one 'category' of spell. I had considered trying to shoe-horn in a Combat Counter-spelling Focus but it was just too expensive compared to the Shielding Focus. The 'bang per buck' ratio was very low.
Going from point A in the real world to point B in the real world without passing through any of the intervening points in the real world.
Is Teleporting.
No, sorry.
No. Teleporting is traveling from point A to point B instantaneously & without any inbetween. What Astral From does is changes the inbetween, & increases speed. It is quite a bit different from teleporting.
Edit:
You also have 105 dice for Counterspelling, before taking into account Resistance Attribute. Might want to go re-read Aid Sorcery.
Edit:
You also have 105 dice for Counterspelling, before taking into account Resistance Attribute. Might want to go re-read Aid Sorcery.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Oct 3 2008, 10:33 AM)
Might want to go re-read Aid Sorcery.
Nice catch, can't believe I missed that.
Ally Spirits just jumped another notch in my opinions.
Ally Spirits are to powerful in my opinion.
Oh why the heck not. Making a force 20 spirit. stats are nearly done. He can't even near keep up with the 100+ spellcasting dice, but on the other hand, he has numerous spirit and mortal servants, and a Personal Domain that would have been a rating 2 Mana Ebb during the Fifth World, allowing him and spirits swearing allegiance to him to survive easily. Also, lots and lots of skills, quite well-rounded 
EARLY DRAFT:
Urartu, the Great Spirit of Mount Ararat, The Other Ark, The Singing Mountain
Spirit that survived on Mount Ararat by making a personal domain, making the -12 mana ebb into a -2 mana ebb, which is easily survivable. Slightly inspired by Tim Powers' Declare.
Breakdown (4782 karma spent)
Stats
Urartu, the Great Spirit of Mount Ararat, The Other Ark, The Singing Mountain
Spirit that survived on Mount Ararat by making a personal domain, making the -12 mana ebb into a -2 mana ebb, which is easily survivable. Slightly inspired by Tim Powers' Declare.
Breakdown (4782 karma spent)
[ Spoiler ]
Stats
[ Spoiler ]
question: what sort of boosts does the adept power Improved senses provide? I understand thermographic, low light, and the listed ones. I was wondering more: vision enhancement? Vision Magnification? any of the audio enhancements?
and for vision enhancement, would it be one purchase for all three levels, or would you require another .25 pp per level?
and for vision enhancement, would it be one purchase for all three levels, or would you require another .25 pp per level?
Vision Magnification no problem, Eagle Shapeshifters have that.
Enhancement, not sure, I'm at work so can't look it up. Have a look at Eagle Shapeshifter, they might have it at level II in which case that's your answer...
Enhancement, not sure, I'm at work so can't look it up. Have a look at Eagle Shapeshifter, they might have it at level II in which case that's your answer...
and audio enhancements? IE: spatial recognizer, select sound filters?
If Vision Enhancement is available RAW at 0.25 per level then so are all the others.
I was only concerned with Enhancement because it overlaps with Enhanced Perception.
I was only concerned with Enhancement because it overlaps with Enhanced Perception.
QUOTE (SR4 p.188)
Any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power (see Street Gear, p.298, for more information), unless an improvement involves radio or similar technological phenomena.
QUOTE (FAQ)
When an adept buys an improved sense on a power that has multiple levels (e.g., vision enhancement or sound filter) are they purchased as levels or does the adept gain the max value for just .25 points?
They receive it at the maximum level.
They receive it at the maximum level.
wow! thanks! ^__^
How would you price the Endowment, Storm and Wealth powers?
At the moment i've also taken Astral Gateway as a 3p power, which might be a bit low, i don't know, and possession as an initiate power (Allowing me to both possess and materialize)
Anyway, my concept is changing a bit, not sure how it is gonna turn out. First off, i don't live on Ararat, since Aden lairs there.
The problem with all the servants and personal domain is that it creates a very settled character, not the type to go adventuring except in the most extreme circumstances.
Astral Gateway seems fine.
Endowment is not available to free spirits.
The Greater Free Spirit Powers I would allow one at a cost of six.
Endowment is not available to free spirits.
The Greater Free Spirit Powers I would allow one at a cost of six.
Would you require use of the Hidden Life power to be in the form of a spirit pact, or just included in the backstory?
We could also, perhaps, make an arrangement to tie our characters together, mickle 
. Of course, then you wouldn't control your spirit buddy.
I mean, i could take hidden life for your character, perhaps, if we can make stories fit together.
. Of course, then you wouldn't control your spirit buddy.I mean, i could take hidden life for your character, perhaps, if we can make stories fit together.
QUOTE (Mickle5125 @ Oct 6 2008, 12:23 AM)
Would you require use of the Hidden Life power to be in the form of a spirit pact, or just included in the backstory?
I presume you're talking about the vessel, which is a troubling point. The benefits to the vessel are enormous, certainly much more so than any established quality.
That would be an accurate presumption...
Note tho, since i suspect you might not be aware, that 4th.ed. Hidden Life grants Immunity to Age and Normal Weapons, and nothing else. This is not third edition, where hidden life granted monstrous stat bonuses.
Still, Immunity to Normal Weapons is a massive improvement on the benefits of Formula Pact.
If I price it as a quality it's going to be expensive and eat up a huge amount of a characters available qualities. If I don't and just allow it to be acquired in game as part of role-play it gives a huge benefit that doesn't have to be paid for with karma like normal qualities acquired during play.
If I price it as a quality it's going to be expensive and eat up a huge amount of a characters available qualities. If I don't and just allow it to be acquired in game as part of role-play it gives a huge benefit that doesn't have to be paid for with karma like normal qualities acquired during play.
but it would put the non-spirit characters on a more level playing field with the spirits.
Apropos that. You might want to make a metamagic to help resist spirit powers. Or perhaps add banishing to resistance vs. spirit powers similar to how counterspelling works vs. spells. Magic+Charisma vs Willpower could become unfair quickly
Not to be a beggar or anything, but the double max for spells (ie max 24 w. spellcasting 6) feels quite low on my character. Could you raise it, or perhaps allow some positive quality to grant me more?
Also. I don't understand why Runner's Companion says free spirits cant learn Sensing. Can i ignore that rule?
Also. I don't understand why Runner's Companion says free spirits cant learn Sensing. Can i ignore that rule?
I don't see any reason why we couldn't do something like double karma cost to learn spells over that limit.
As to Sensing, I noticed that yesterday and it confused me also. Provisionally, just ignore it. Invoking makes sense, Sensing does not.
I'm considering allowing Spirit Vessel (Hidden Life) as a 30 BP quality.
As to Sensing, I noticed that yesterday and it confused me also. Provisionally, just ignore it. Invoking makes sense, Sensing does not.
I'm considering allowing Spirit Vessel (Hidden Life) as a 30 BP quality.
Considering something: can we say that hidden life protects against the force loss from losing friendship pact members somehow? Perhaps make it a 1-lunar cycle force reduction instead of permanent loss, after which i have to find another friend?
I think it is reasonable to allow the Force loss to be temporary assuming that you also had a Friendship Pact with your vessel. I would give the same time limit as gaining a point of Force, 24 hours to enter a new pact or the loss is permanent.
I would also allow the transferring of Friendship Pact to another friend with or without Hidden Life. Otherwise it would effectively make you mortal....
I would also allow the transferring of Friendship Pact to another friend with or without Hidden Life. Otherwise it would effectively make you mortal....
After considering things, i dislike Hidden Life for my character.
This seems more appropriate, tho i don't know how to cost it. Sounds acceptable?
Improved Friendship Pact
This power grants the following improvements to the friendship pact.
Inheritance: Upon the death of a friend, the friendship pact automatically transfers to the friend's designated heir. Only if there is no heir does force loss occur. A friend's eldest living child is automatically the heir, but in the absence of one, the friend and the spirit together can designate an heir, at the cost of 5 karma. All three must be physically present in the same location, and perform a ritual taking 1 hour.
Communication: The range of communication becomes unlimited, but beyond Force x 100 meters, the spirit can communicate with friends only in dreams.
The friends can call the spirit's attention to them using a short ritual which requires no magical ability. This ritual can only be used to communicate the urgency of the need for attention, nothing else (ie. from "i'd like to speak with you soon, if possible" to "HELP! NOW!"
Formula: The improved friendship pact acts as a formula pact in that all the friends count as formula items, but no spirit formulas may be used.
Metaplanar Link: Except in exceptional circumstances, the spirit can travel to its friends through a metaplanar shortcut.
Break the Bond: The spirit can break the bond to a friend at the cost of 1 karma (same as leaving a magical group). It has 24 hours after this to find another friend, or it incurs force loss. A friend can do the same, though this also hurts the spirit, causing it to lose it's Banishing resistance until another friend is found.
Vessels: The friends áre automatically prepared vessels for the spirit.
Marked as Mine: The friends are all subtly marked by the spirit. The astral mark can be noticed with 4 successes on an assensing roll, the physical mark takes the form of a small sign on the friend's body, usually hidden but visible if the friend is examined while naked.
This seems more appropriate, tho i don't know how to cost it. Sounds acceptable?
Improved Friendship Pact
This power grants the following improvements to the friendship pact.
Inheritance: Upon the death of a friend, the friendship pact automatically transfers to the friend's designated heir. Only if there is no heir does force loss occur. A friend's eldest living child is automatically the heir, but in the absence of one, the friend and the spirit together can designate an heir, at the cost of 5 karma. All three must be physically present in the same location, and perform a ritual taking 1 hour.
Communication: The range of communication becomes unlimited, but beyond Force x 100 meters, the spirit can communicate with friends only in dreams.
The friends can call the spirit's attention to them using a short ritual which requires no magical ability. This ritual can only be used to communicate the urgency of the need for attention, nothing else (ie. from "i'd like to speak with you soon, if possible" to "HELP! NOW!"
Formula: The improved friendship pact acts as a formula pact in that all the friends count as formula items, but no spirit formulas may be used.
Metaplanar Link: Except in exceptional circumstances, the spirit can travel to its friends through a metaplanar shortcut.
Break the Bond: The spirit can break the bond to a friend at the cost of 1 karma (same as leaving a magical group). It has 24 hours after this to find another friend, or it incurs force loss. A friend can do the same, though this also hurts the spirit, causing it to lose it's Banishing resistance until another friend is found.
Vessels: The friends áre automatically prepared vessels for the spirit.
Marked as Mine: The friends are all subtly marked by the spirit. The astral mark can be noticed with 4 successes on an assensing roll, the physical mark takes the form of a small sign on the friend's body, usually hidden but visible if the friend is examined while naked.
I'm not sure that is really necessary. I instinctively dislike over-complication. Inheritance and Formula are kinda redundant, Metaplanar link is something I'd be happy to house-rule into all Pacts as is break the bond. Vessel is unnecessary.
Rather than complicate things with house-rules, which at some stage starts to defeat the purpose of this game, you would be just as well to take both Friendship and Formula Pact.
Rather than complicate things with house-rules, which at some stage starts to defeat the purpose of this game, you would be just as well to take both Friendship and Formula Pact.
Oh. Just noticed something. I've been assuming, per karmagen rules, that the Free Spirit "metatype" is free, and ignoring the 250 BP cost.
Yup, that's right, the 250BP is a 'metatype' cost. Unlike Infected who buy a normal 'metatype' and also an Infected 'quality'.
In karmagen, which we're using, Free Spirit is free and places a limit, in this instance, of 3000 karma on Stats.
In karmagen, which we're using, Free Spirit is free and places a limit, in this instance, of 3000 karma on Stats.
30 BP you say? awesome. Thanks!
EDIT: Finished up my custom martial art. What do you think?
Kyokujitsu
This style began as an exercise to improve Ninigi’s swordsmanship and grew into a full style over the years. It focuses on drawing the opponent in by fighting defensively until, like the sudden appearance of the first rays of the rising sun, the practitioner’s true skill becomes apparent as he turns a parry into a quick and decisive blow.
Advantages: +1 dv blades; +1 full parry (may be taken 2x for a cumulative bonus); +1 die to called shots to increase damage.
EDIT: Finished up my custom martial art. What do you think?
Kyokujitsu
This style began as an exercise to improve Ninigi’s swordsmanship and grew into a full style over the years. It focuses on drawing the opponent in by fighting defensively until, like the sudden appearance of the first rays of the rising sun, the practitioner’s true skill becomes apparent as he turns a parry into a quick and decisive blow.
Advantages: +1 dv blades; +1 full parry (may be taken 2x for a cumulative bonus); +1 die to called shots to increase damage.
Sounds a bit more like you should give a bonus to the riposte maneuver, and then require it to learn the art.
Still considering how to work out my pacts.
Can i use a metamagic ability to gain 24 hours to find a new friend for friendship pact before the force loss becomes permanent? (without having Hidden Life, since i'm still not sure i want my spirit to be the origin of additional immortals)
(Of course, should someone want to play such a linked immortal character, that might well change things)
Can i use a metamagic ability to gain 24 hours to find a new friend for friendship pact before the force loss becomes permanent? (without having Hidden Life, since i'm still not sure i want my spirit to be the origin of additional immortals)
(Of course, should someone want to play such a linked immortal character, that might well change things)
QUOTE (Tarantula @ Oct 8 2008, 09:58 AM)
Sounds a bit more like you should give a bonus to the riposte maneuver, and then require it to learn the art.
If I had thought that I could get away with it... ^_^
INTRODUCING: VICIOUS!!!
Name: Ninigi
Running Name: Vicious
Metatype: Human
Gender: Male
Age: Really Effin' Old
And his Goddess: AMATERASU!!!
Name: Ninigi
Running Name: Vicious
Metatype: Human
Gender: Male
Age: Really Effin' Old
[ Spoiler ]
And his Goddess: AMATERASU!!!
[ Spoiler ]
Xue, Spirit of Many Faces and Geomantic Master
Still slightly under revision.
Real Name: The purity of the path of White Lotus is like new-fallen snow in the mountains.
Street names: Xue, Snow, Snow-White
Age: ca. 12000 years [Born in the fourth age, before the coming of the horrors]
Origin: Ally spirit of the dragon White Lotus, set free after she saved his life.
Spirit Type/Gender: Anima
Survival Method during Fifth World: retreated to Personal Domain
Karma spent Updated[color="#FF0000"][/color]
Dice Pools
Attributes
Skills:
Qualities:
Contacts: Updated
Initiate and Spirit Powers:
Spells
Resources
House-ruled material:
Still slightly under revision.
Real Name: The purity of the path of White Lotus is like new-fallen snow in the mountains.
Street names: Xue, Snow, Snow-White
Age: ca. 12000 years [Born in the fourth age, before the coming of the horrors]
Origin: Ally spirit of the dragon White Lotus, set free after she saved his life.
Spirit Type/Gender: Anima
Survival Method during Fifth World: retreated to Personal Domain
Karma spent Updated[color="#FF0000"][/color]
[ Spoiler ]
Dice Pools
[ Spoiler ]
Attributes
[ Spoiler ]
Skills:
[ Spoiler ]
Qualities:
[ Spoiler ]
Contacts: Updated
[ Spoiler ]
Initiate and Spirit Powers:
[ Spoiler ]
Spells
[ Spoiler ]
Resources
[ Spoiler ]
House-ruled material:
[ Spoiler ]
If I have an ally spirit inhabit a sword, what effects does that have? I mean, do you add it's force to damage? to attack rolls using the sword?
It wouldn't do any more damage although it does penetrate Immunity to Normal Weapons.
It's Barrier Rating increases by Force.
It's Barrier Rating increases by Force.
Are you putting a cap on force for foci?
Nope.
So, Crizh, what thoughts about my current version of the characters?
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