I thought it would be cool to gather a bunch of tips for creative interesting and (or) efficient characters and put them all in one, all-encompassing thread. The advice can be archetype-specific or completely general to all types of characters.

So, fire away!

Use the Karma-Building System, if your GM allows it
No Hardmaxing at Char-Gen, as it's generally not worth it for the one or two Dice more
Try to do indirekt upping, so no direkt modifiers to attribute or skill, but pool-mods

Take full negative qualities. If you don't like the ones offered by the book ask your GM if they could come up with some for your character. If they're even remotely like me they'll smile gleefully/maliciously, give you your BP and add something that will make the game more fun for all instead of something that just nerfs your combat ability.

Also I advise against buying specializations in BP chargen. Yeah they're cheap extra dice. But they're cheap to buy with Karma, so just pick a couple up after every run for a while.

Softmaxing is efficient in BP chargen, as is buying skills up to the highest level you can.

i.e. 5,5,2 to 5,5,5 stats = 36 karma
while 4,4,4 to 5,5,5 = 45 karma so you end up with the same stats as the other guy with fewer karma.

However note that this may weaken your ability "out of the box" .

My advice? Don't worry about efficiency of BP/Karma/Whatever. Make the character you want to play, not the one that's mechanically pristine or that others want you to.

well, yes, that too . . and if it's conicidentally the character you and everybody else wants you to play and that character should be a bit min/maxed, all the better ^^

But only if it is coincidentally so. I'd rather see a player make a non min/maxed character that they're excited about than a power behemoth that they value less than the paper its written on.

*shrugs* i usually play whatever i am told to play . . or rather, what is needed in the group . . well, at least i would, if i actually got to play nowadays <.<
and then i min/max it untill i feel it's about the right power-niveau to make sense with the rest of the toons ^^

If you're playing a 'ware enhanced person, make sure you capitalize on the 50% discount for the lesser of the two. This goes double if you have magic/resonance.

In Debt, its a wonderful flaw, get it, love it.

Max Magic/Res its worth it.

Always always get dodge.

Body 3 is a minimum, more is always better.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head. As far as optimization goes, make a list of what ups the abilities you want to be good at, and choose the most effective ones (whether thats for BP/karma cost, essence cost, or nuyen cost, is up to you).

On that note. When I make characters priority one is making a character that I want to play, often with non min maxed elements or restrictions for flavor.

But once that's done I try to make things as good "under the hood" as possible.

For example lets say I want to make a character that's a sammy but charismatic, has a wise mouth, and is good with the ladies.

So I get the social skills group at 4, a solid charisma, a french lingasoft, and maybe a relevant quality or ware.

But after that I do all the fine tuning stuff to try and make the character as good as I can.

Actually since I'm usually doing something like that I tend to have to try and build well because I'll be trying to keep up with the guy who didn't just dump 80BP into that stuff.

Also I don't really believe in getting total waste stuff. If I made the char in my above example I'd be using those social skills on the table, making contact, aquentances, fast talking, legworking and generally having some fun with it during downtime.

I totally agree with the above.

WMS

Always push your Edge as high as you can get it. You don't all have to have an Edge of 8; but the higher your Edge is, the better off you are, no matter what your character concept is. If you're a spellcaster, that Edge is even better for you.

Don't forget about Perception! I've seen too many character sheets without it. If there's any roll a GM can spam you with, and still be playing fair, it's perception.

Get 1 rank in the skills that you sort-of need, but can't default to. Then specialize. This way, you don't spend too much on skills you may not need. (It's better to not buy skills you won't need, but that can really vary from game to game.)

Generally speaking, buying two skills at 5 is a better choice than 1 at 6. The exception is if you want a hyper-specialist. In that case, buy Aptitude for that skill and push it to 7. If you're not going to start with that 7, then don't buy Aptitude in the first place.


I actually disagree. Sometimes the "waste stuff" can be the most fun. For example, I have a character with Industrial Mechanics/Farm Machinery, and Knowledge: Sports/Rodeos. Basically useless skills, under most circumstances; but a hell of a lot of fun in play. ("Whoo-ee! This durn thing's a mite more comp-lee-cated than mah pappy's tractor!")

I also had, in SR3, a troll street sam with the Art History knowledge skill raised to 9. That was actually his highest skill. And it was a lot of fun, even if it wasn't useful-- his hobby was going to museums and making fun of the curators. (He had a Charisma of 1, so he thought it was fun making them cry.)

Always take Infiltration and Perception. No runner should be without them.

Dodge is usually a bad choice. In ranged combat, it's better to use cover, and save your actions for attacking. If you're playing a melee specialist, you can always defend with your melee skills, saving the BP you would have spent on Dodge. Finally, Gymnastics can be used in place of Dodge, and also allows your character to perform, you know, gymnastics, too.

Don't overgeneralize. Have one, two, or three at most (in my opinion and experience) skills that you do quite well in. BP/karma spread too thin will make a dead metahuman - 12+ dice for the skills you are meant to do is a good balance, to me.

You can get by with lower Perception if your GM allows substitution from Stealth Skills. Pure Perception tests (ones that should not be substituted with a Stealth skill) have fixed Thresholds and have a RAW max Threshold of 4, the only time a high Perception dice pool is really necessary is in opposed tests against people with high Stealth skills, which can be countered if you have high Stealth skills yourself.

I usually throw in 1 "wasted" Knowledge skill if I am playing an Awakened. Why? Simple, Awakened are karma whores, fluff skills leveraged with some good RPing can net your those extra RP karma.

Generally speaking buying 1 skill 6 and 1 skill 4 is better than 2 5s with BP and vice versa in karma.

You can also easily get extra dice for Perception from contact lenses, ear buds, and (if you're taking cyber) Attention Co-Processors. However, you still need the skill, if only to avoid a defaulting penalty. Specialize in visual for an extra boost.

Quick Question: When building a 400 BP character (Karmagen makes this a non issue), how much is "wise" to spend on Skills? How much do you spend on Gear? Finally, how much do you spend on Attributes?

Also those same questions as above, but with regards to a mage/shaman.

I always spend the maximum allowed for Attributes, no matter what the character. An average NPC pedestrian has 160 BP worth of Attribute Points, and I like to think that my characters are at least a cut above that level.

Varies from concept to concept for me. I always look at the tables (when available) that demonstrate what each rank of an ability is roughly equivalent to, then find the one that fits my character the best. Afterwards I go back and count everything up and go from there.

With a magician, I *might* go down a bit on attributes, but only if it fit my concept, and if I could justify it mechanically. For example, a Strength of 1 may be perfect for one character, but be complete cheese in another. Then, you have to justify putting the points that would have gone into Strength into a non-regular attribute, like Magic or Edge. For a magician, that may or may not be worth it. But if you can soft max your Willpower and Drain attributes, and you don't mind having very weak physical stats, you can get away with it.

If you want a "well rounded" character with decent physical and mental stats all around, go metahuman; especially Ork, Dwarf, or Troll. Their physical bonuses will make up for underpowering your physical stats.

Generally, I find it's easier to skimp on skills than it is on attributes or special attributes. If you're into cyber, then take skillwires. If you're not, pick your skills very carefully, and specialize as needed.

I would seriously question any character that doesn't have the follow skills: perception, infiltration, pistols, etiquette, any melee skill(or at least dodge dodge). Unless you have a fairly strong character reason not to have one of those skills (a Luddite not having pistols for example), they are all basic skills that any shadowrun would need on at least a basic level. You need to be able to spot ambushes/cameras, sneak away from deadly encounters, have a good concealable weapon, be able not to offend Mr. Johnson to bad, and be able to defend yourself from that samurai.

Skills: 130-160 BP, Attributes are usually maxed. My personal preference is somewhat higher on the skills, some 170-200 in attributes.

Add those figures up and you see that 40-100 BP remain for "other stuff". Magicians/TMs have some additional costs and will have to make some compromises.

Sample Character Archive

Buying attribute points with resources (eg. Bioware like Muscle Toner) is much more cost effective than using BP. A point of agility costs 10. 2 points of muscle toner costs 4BP, with 4k left over.

I would agree with the rest, but I'm actually rather unconvinced that Etiquette is truly all that necessary for the average runner. IMO, most of Etiquette uses can be substituted with Con or Negotiation. Especially Negotiation can be used for dealing with fixers, contacts, and Mr. Johnson. Con can be used for impersonation, inflitration, and seduction.

I agree with a lot of this. I say at least one social skill, a Dodge skill(or Athletics/Gymnastics Dodge, whichever), a combat skill(combat oriented folks should have a melee and a ranged), Infiltration and Perception. Infiltration *can* maybe be waived if it REALLY fits the concept for your character(really, any of these can), but for your ''Basic Runner Set'', IMO, these should be there.

I also, 95% of the time, spend all 200 on Attributes.

I have my thing with 1's though. IMO, if you have a 1, you are pretty deficient. If your average joe walking down the street, as in, Joe the Office guy, who works at his desk, has straight 2's...what did your character NOT do to get a 1?

Then again, it's sort of weird to realize. Are Metas with high stats just...never deficient? I guess that 5 strength Troll, who is as strong as a 5 strength human, is weaker compared to the average Troll, but strong for a human. That 5 Body troll isn't sickly-maybe kinda runty for his race-while the 1 body Human isn't doing so hot.

That leads to my next thing in chargen advice...IMO, if you take a 1, it should be for character purposes. Not to scratch another Drain die out. I understand points are limited. I understand one can't have everything. But to have a 1 means you really suck in that stat, and there should be a reason for it. (''Not Working Out'' isn't enough to get a 1 strength. Joe the Office guy doesn't, and he has a 2.)

Personally, I suggest Karmagen for character creation. IMO, it's just so much better. It's more math, but it's just a stronger overall system. It has a few shortcomings...but ALL of them do. IMO, Karmagen's good points far outweighs it's shortcomings.

Be careful of one-trick ponies. Unless it's a one or twoshot, or it REALLY fits the character, they can get boring fast. For the cost of your samurai rolling 26 dice in Pistols, you could get him 16 dice in Pistols, Blades, and even make him a decent Armorer on top of it.

When playing a mage, if you really don't have any particular race in mind for the character, when in doubt, go Dwarf. IMO, they make the most solid overall mages.

Erm, I think I could think of more stuff.

Well, one of my mages is supposed to be a girl who's 5'0" and 105 lbs. She shouldn't be running around with a high Body and Strength. She can get away with a Strength of only 1, since it fits her description.

A character that's described as tall, broad shouldered, and burly, IMO shouldn't be able to get away with a Str of 1.

And that's cool; yoyu just explained it to me in one sentence. I mean, Joe the Office Guy's 2 is assuming he is, well, strictly average in things like build, health, etc.

It's when, like you said, a character is big and burly with the 1...or, for example, extremely healthy in every other physical stat(as in, 5's and a 6 natural in Body, Agility, and Reaction), with a 1 Strength. I GUESS, technically speaking, it MIGHT be possible somehow(if someone was able to only do exercises that increased their reaction and agility to superior levels while staying extremely healthy but never building ANY muscle mass)...but yeah, that reeks of pure twinkage.

But a 5' tall, 100 pound girl who is known for being rather small, skinny, and not strong at all, I'd buy that.

While true, agility is ususally worth a softmax+cyberware if not a hardmax.

However the more important point is that you should NOT just buy regular muscle toner in chargen, unless maybe you're the rigger and spent all your resources on other stuff.

You are a runner, cheapy cyber is for NPCs. If you're a sammy get high grade or ideally bioware for the full 250,000 and then still have "room" to add more as you get paid in game. If you start off with no essence you're not going to get much better as time passes.

am i missing something?
when did toner become cyber?