Man, I dearly LOVE the cyberpunk genre. And I love the idea of adding the re-emergence of magic to it. In fact, I love the whole Shadowrun ideology and background EXCEPT of the return of the supernatural races. That I could have easily done without and more than done without. So, I'm looking at a way to preserve as much of the SR*3 flavor as possible, back dated a bit actually, to start on 2048, but completely devoid of the metahuman races. Ghosts, fine, para critters, wonderful, with a few exceptions. I want to leave man as the only unarguably sapient race. So, no dragons, nothing with an unarguably sapient mind. Ghosts, fine, vampires, ditto, although there will be no "old ones", ghouls...are a creature created by a genetically mutative virus... but catching it is rare, as most people die instead. But, of course, ghouls can breed and THEY breed true 100% of the time.
Now my problem is that so much of the Sixth World revolves around the return of the metahuman races. How do I retain as much of the storyline as possible without them? What parts are unavoidably lost without them? Where can they be substituted for by other groups or nationalities or whatever? And without dragons (well Feathered Serpents), the whole balance of power for Atzlan seems way out of whack, but if anything I'd like them even more powerful, corrupt and feared. How do I manage that without Mary Jane-ing?
Isshia
Full Version: The Cyberpunk Factor
I just thought of the fix for trolls. They may even be called trolls as a slang thing. Basically about 1 in every hundred pregnancies results in a child with gigantism. And as with what I mentioned for ghouls, two trolls breed true ALMOST 100% of the time. They suffer from a form of congenital idiocy and a form of autism as well, to account for their lack of Int and Cha. I'm dropping the Thermographic vision and adding a +4 dice bonus for physical Intimidation checks, all else reamins as it stands in SR*3 except that just shy of eight feet tall is average for males insterad of a bit over nine feet tall, while females tend towards 90% of that and weight is roughly 200kgs for men and about 175kgs for the women.
This is a rough sketch, but it's the direction my thoughts are headed. Trying to do away with that among the racial traits that can't easily be explained away as a latent part of the human genome.
Isshia
Edit: Maybe one in a thousand instead of one in a hundred pregnancies result in a child with gigantism.
This is a rough sketch, but it's the direction my thoughts are headed. Trying to do away with that among the racial traits that can't easily be explained away as a latent part of the human genome.
Isshia
Edit: Maybe one in a thousand instead of one in a hundred pregnancies result in a child with gigantism.
Replace all the dragons/elves/whatevers with really powerful humans and/or organizations (with the same names as the originals were 
)?
)?
QUOTE (BullZeye @ Oct 4 2008, 04:50 PM) 
Replace all the dragons/elves/whatevers with really powerful humans and/or organizations (with the same names as the originals were )?
)?The thing is I'm trying to retain the whole feel. It's easy to work around Lofwyr, there is just a guy who has that last name who is the penultimate corporate raider, gifted as hell, a genius and Olympic class athlete and on top of it, magically active. No problems there, but the races themselves... problem. They were designed to be, more or less, balanced with humans. I need to keep them that way and account for the strangeness of them. As per the thing with trolls above.
Isshia
Project "Robustus":
Started in the mid-2020's, this project aimed to (padum-tsh) create more "durable" and at the same time more obedient humans by means of massive prenatal genetic modification, this program was ultimately aborted in 2028 due to interference of some fuzzywarm ethics commissions. Shortly after the cancellation however, the plane carrying the prototype of the nanovirus designed to trigger the genetic modification "dissapeared" over the Atlantic. The nanovirus managed to survive by hijacking a species of algae and ended up in the food-chain, where it caused the emergence of certain abnormal traits in a part of the population, especially in infants, such as hightened physical duress, increased muscle tonus and also a neglible decrease in mental capabilities... the responsible corporation was quietly absorbed by another mega, the media was all over these "brutes" for a while, and to this day, "robustus-children" are struggling with the effects of their difference and the reaction of societey.
Bang, instant technobabble handwave orks...
Started in the mid-2020's, this project aimed to (padum-tsh) create more "durable" and at the same time more obedient humans by means of massive prenatal genetic modification, this program was ultimately aborted in 2028 due to interference of some fuzzywarm ethics commissions. Shortly after the cancellation however, the plane carrying the prototype of the nanovirus designed to trigger the genetic modification "dissapeared" over the Atlantic. The nanovirus managed to survive by hijacking a species of algae and ended up in the food-chain, where it caused the emergence of certain abnormal traits in a part of the population, especially in infants, such as hightened physical duress, increased muscle tonus and also a neglible decrease in mental capabilities... the responsible corporation was quietly absorbed by another mega, the media was all over these "brutes" for a while, and to this day, "robustus-children" are struggling with the effects of their difference and the reaction of societey.
Bang, instant technobabble handwave orks...
Simply don't bother simulating the non-humans at all. Have only human characters with the standard human stat range.
The Night of Rage, Yomi, and other such things can be explained away by skin color racism and other forms of ethnic nationalism.
Aztlan, that's easy. The North American Free Trade Agreement greatly increased the economic importance and capability of Mexico, leading to a rise in stature and power. After the Lone Eagle Incident, The United States Congress rushes through an anti-terrorism bill that includes a great many immigration reforms which, among other things, turns the US-Mexico boarder into a demilitarized zone and permits INS to execute people for minor emigration violations, a policy which leads to the deaths of tens and thousands of emigrants, from Mexico, Central America and South America.
This outrage allows a vocal and wealthy Aztec minority party to come to power on a platform of fervent patriotism and Antiamericanism. They build up Mexico's military and strong arm other spanish-speaking countries into an alliance against the United States and Canada. This alliance fights against the USA along with a bunch of oppressed Native Americans who are trying to gain freedom. By the end of the war, Mexico's military dominance over the other countries of the alliance, combined with the extreme Aztec nationalism of Mexico's ruling party, leads to the at-gunpoint formation of Aztlan. Aztlan leave the NAN alone, however, due to fear of the GGD, and remains somewhat content with the status of a member state until that arrangement falls apart.
Amazonia is harder without feathered serpents, but still possible. You don't have to explain where their blood magic comes from, after all.
The Night of Rage, Yomi, and other such things can be explained away by skin color racism and other forms of ethnic nationalism.
Aztlan, that's easy. The North American Free Trade Agreement greatly increased the economic importance and capability of Mexico, leading to a rise in stature and power. After the Lone Eagle Incident, The United States Congress rushes through an anti-terrorism bill that includes a great many immigration reforms which, among other things, turns the US-Mexico boarder into a demilitarized zone and permits INS to execute people for minor emigration violations, a policy which leads to the deaths of tens and thousands of emigrants, from Mexico, Central America and South America.
This outrage allows a vocal and wealthy Aztec minority party to come to power on a platform of fervent patriotism and Antiamericanism. They build up Mexico's military and strong arm other spanish-speaking countries into an alliance against the United States and Canada. This alliance fights against the USA along with a bunch of oppressed Native Americans who are trying to gain freedom. By the end of the war, Mexico's military dominance over the other countries of the alliance, combined with the extreme Aztec nationalism of Mexico's ruling party, leads to the at-gunpoint formation of Aztlan. Aztlan leave the NAN alone, however, due to fear of the GGD, and remains somewhat content with the status of a member state until that arrangement falls apart.
Amazonia is harder without feathered serpents, but still possible. You don't have to explain where their blood magic comes from, after all.
I'm a bit confused. Why do you hate the Metaraces so much, yet want to create human replacements? I mean is a game in which you have high levels of giantism that breed as a new species and are basically identical to trolls really that different from just having trolls?
Troll, human with giantism, what is the real difference? If you plan on replacing all the Metaraces with some kind of modified humans, nothing really has to change at all in the story, of course that brings up the question of why bother? On the other hand if you just take them out.. well that isn't going to adjust the SR storyline all that much. I mean sure, the elven city isn't going to happen, but there could still be a city of some kind there. Maybe they only let some ethnic minority in there, or elitists or something else.
Troll, human with giantism, what is the real difference? If you plan on replacing all the Metaraces with some kind of modified humans, nothing really has to change at all in the story, of course that brings up the question of why bother? On the other hand if you just take them out.. well that isn't going to adjust the SR storyline all that much. I mean sure, the elven city isn't going to happen, but there could still be a city of some kind there. Maybe they only let some ethnic minority in there, or elitists or something else.
For the rise of the awakened nations, part of the explanation could be that hermeticism is a comparatively recent school of Magic, and before that, nearly all magic was of the shamanic-type, giving the groups capable of wielding it a huge edge. And maybe hermetics are still a comparative minority (although this would not be as apparent in urban areas).
For dwarfs, you could make them the opposite of gigantism, dwarfism, resulting in stunted, hairless individuals with a stooped posture and a tendency towards nearsightedness. They took very well to genetic treatment, though, resulting in them actually being more strong and healthy than normal humans, without the mental disadvantages of brutes or giants. Two dwarves breed true ALMOST 100% of the time.
For elves, you could say they started out as vat-grown babies designed to be pretty and graceful, raised to be the playthings of the rich or the property of the entertainment industry. Most of them were emancipated in a court decision, although most of them wound up in one of the two aforementioned roles anyways, only difference being they were getting paid this time, at least. Most of them look like attractive, somewhat idealized humans, but you will see some with pointy elf-like ears, cat ears, or similar traits. Two elves breed true ALMOST 100% of the time.
For dwarfs, you could make them the opposite of gigantism, dwarfism, resulting in stunted, hairless individuals with a stooped posture and a tendency towards nearsightedness. They took very well to genetic treatment, though, resulting in them actually being more strong and healthy than normal humans, without the mental disadvantages of brutes or giants. Two dwarves breed true ALMOST 100% of the time.
For elves, you could say they started out as vat-grown babies designed to be pretty and graceful, raised to be the playthings of the rich or the property of the entertainment industry. Most of them were emancipated in a court decision, although most of them wound up in one of the two aforementioned roles anyways, only difference being they were getting paid this time, at least. Most of them look like attractive, somewhat idealized humans, but you will see some with pointy elf-like ears, cat ears, or similar traits. Two elves breed true ALMOST 100% of the time.
Why go through all that bother to change everything inherant to Shadowrun find one that is more oriented to what you want or just play a human Humanis Policlub member and try and get rid of them all in game
Thanks for all the responses. I've been sick as a dog and passed out last night at about 8:30.
The last one first. In straight Shadowrun I play Trolls for the most part myself, it isn't a dislike of the race, or humanocentrism, but simply a desire to get rid of some of the fluffy bunny feeling that the metaraces represent. These are not Shadowrun trolls by appearance, for instance. They look human, but big, really big. A human male with gigantism today averages just under 7' tall and usually weighs about 150kgs. The Homo Sapiens Ingentis of "Cold Day in Hell" will be closer to the Shadowrun model, with males averaging 240cm tall (a hair under eight foot tall) and will weigh and average of 210kgs.
The idea here is to take away what we feel is the cutesy aspects of the game while retaining the feel. Elves with pointed ears who look like they were extras from LotR, Orcs with tusks, trolls with their horns, those things we feel were gilding the lily, putting D&D into the cyberpunk genre.
As to just removing them: how? Come on folks, the metahumans TREMENDOUSLY effect the continuity of the storyline. And this without figuring in the impact of the elven nations. Ireland and Oregon (along with parts of old Washington state and northern California) as the Tirs have had no small influence by themselves, on world politics...and what they represent has had an even larger impact.
Glyph, you hit dead on what I had come up with last night, except for making "Elves" genetically engineered. THAT is brilliant and just the sort of thing I was looking for. A fad hits and among the worlds elite these "angelic" children (now I can get rid of the term elves entirely, hoooray!!!), grown to order are all over the place. If you're familiar with GURPS Transhuman Space think the Ishtar upgrade.
One thing I had contemplated was making these off shoots less prevalent, more rare. The problem there, again, is where do nations like the Tirs fit in? Even in the UCAS I'd argue that metahumans have had an amazingly powerful impact on society. But again (again, again?) if I make them more rare, what happens to the "Night of Rage", the Japanese interment camps and so forth? I can still definitely see people with the "strange births syndrome" problems clumping together, exactly as in Shadowrun, but since there are less of them (much less if I do this the way I want) they aren't nearly prevalent enough to really defend themselves from concentrated hate groups. So, and thank god for this, bye, bye Humanis!
Naysayer, you may, with a few alterations, have solved my other problem for me. With dwarfs being taken care of by dwarfism being more common and trolls being taken care of by gigantism becoming MUCH more common (so that there are almost as many "ogres" as "little people") and now especially with the "angelic children" being accounted for by this "genetic enhancement" fad, I really needed something to do with the Orcs. The "robustus project" is perfect for that. They don't start showing up until 2025, where I have the other "races" arriving on the scene around 2014 as "strange births". The "angelic children fad I could start at almost the same time. But the Orcs were going to be my problem children (as it were) because with them I wanted oodles of them, as many as in Shadowrun. When almost one in nine births, starting in China and Russia but soon becoming a nearly world wide thing, produce "robustus" children... The thing that sets them apart even more than their larger than average size and strength will be their savagery. Their hair trigger tempers will be what makes them really stick out.
How about this?
That takes care of our "trolls and dwarves". Much less common than in Shadowrun, but still extremely prevalent by today's standards. And it doesn't strain credulity too much, it isn't quite so fluffy bunny. Our elves are taken care of by the "angelic children" fad. It does make them more the children of influence (and wealth and power and prestige) but hey...it also helps keep their numbers trimmed down...and still explains why they could have managed to get Oregon (and parts of two other states) for their own, and why so many would be clustered in big business, the entertainment industry and so forth. I still have to figure out what to do with Ireland, but this gets me a good way along. Now the "robustus project" allows for a huge swath of the worlds population to be affected initially (with the plane going down over the arctic regions above Russia where it sits between China and the Arctic) and for it to spread. Once the initial "infection period" is past, there are more than 10% Robustus world wide and they breed true.
Finally, thanks to Hyzmarca...that was just the sort of idea I was looking for to account for Aztlan and Aztechnology.
Isshia
The last one first. In straight Shadowrun I play Trolls for the most part myself, it isn't a dislike of the race, or humanocentrism, but simply a desire to get rid of some of the fluffy bunny feeling that the metaraces represent. These are not Shadowrun trolls by appearance, for instance. They look human, but big, really big. A human male with gigantism today averages just under 7' tall and usually weighs about 150kgs. The Homo Sapiens Ingentis of "Cold Day in Hell" will be closer to the Shadowrun model, with males averaging 240cm tall (a hair under eight foot tall) and will weigh and average of 210kgs.
The idea here is to take away what we feel is the cutesy aspects of the game while retaining the feel. Elves with pointed ears who look like they were extras from LotR, Orcs with tusks, trolls with their horns, those things we feel were gilding the lily, putting D&D into the cyberpunk genre.
As to just removing them: how? Come on folks, the metahumans TREMENDOUSLY effect the continuity of the storyline. And this without figuring in the impact of the elven nations. Ireland and Oregon (along with parts of old Washington state and northern California) as the Tirs have had no small influence by themselves, on world politics...and what they represent has had an even larger impact.
Glyph, you hit dead on what I had come up with last night, except for making "Elves" genetically engineered. THAT is brilliant and just the sort of thing I was looking for. A fad hits and among the worlds elite these "angelic" children (now I can get rid of the term elves entirely, hoooray!!!), grown to order are all over the place. If you're familiar with GURPS Transhuman Space think the Ishtar upgrade.
One thing I had contemplated was making these off shoots less prevalent, more rare. The problem there, again, is where do nations like the Tirs fit in? Even in the UCAS I'd argue that metahumans have had an amazingly powerful impact on society. But again (again, again?) if I make them more rare, what happens to the "Night of Rage", the Japanese interment camps and so forth? I can still definitely see people with the "strange births syndrome" problems clumping together, exactly as in Shadowrun, but since there are less of them (much less if I do this the way I want) they aren't nearly prevalent enough to really defend themselves from concentrated hate groups. So, and thank god for this, bye, bye Humanis!
Naysayer, you may, with a few alterations, have solved my other problem for me. With dwarfs being taken care of by dwarfism being more common and trolls being taken care of by gigantism becoming MUCH more common (so that there are almost as many "ogres" as "little people") and now especially with the "angelic children" being accounted for by this "genetic enhancement" fad, I really needed something to do with the Orcs. The "robustus project" is perfect for that. They don't start showing up until 2025, where I have the other "races" arriving on the scene around 2014 as "strange births". The "angelic children fad I could start at almost the same time. But the Orcs were going to be my problem children (as it were) because with them I wanted oodles of them, as many as in Shadowrun. When almost one in nine births, starting in China and Russia but soon becoming a nearly world wide thing, produce "robustus" children... The thing that sets them apart even more than their larger than average size and strength will be their savagery. Their hair trigger tempers will be what makes them really stick out.
How about this?
QUOTE
We aren't having other true races, but there are four distinctive racial variations that have come about, starting in mid July of 2013, with the birth of Tang Wan Lu, who weighed 12.7 kilos at birth and by the time he was four years old was 2.01 meters tall and weighed just over 150 kilos. The "strange births" became epidemic by early 2014, with as many as one in four hundred live births being affected in the then Central African Republic. In most of the rest of the world, at its height, the "strange births phenomenon" accounted for one in seven hundred and thirty on average, with the absolute height of strange births occurring in February of 2015 and tailing off slowly since then in the "standard population". By 2048 there are about one in a thousand, averaged, strange births still occurring.
That takes care of our "trolls and dwarves". Much less common than in Shadowrun, but still extremely prevalent by today's standards. And it doesn't strain credulity too much, it isn't quite so fluffy bunny. Our elves are taken care of by the "angelic children" fad. It does make them more the children of influence (and wealth and power and prestige) but hey...it also helps keep their numbers trimmed down...and still explains why they could have managed to get Oregon (and parts of two other states) for their own, and why so many would be clustered in big business, the entertainment industry and so forth. I still have to figure out what to do with Ireland, but this gets me a good way along. Now the "robustus project" allows for a huge swath of the worlds population to be affected initially (with the plane going down over the arctic regions above Russia where it sits between China and the Arctic) and for it to spread. Once the initial "infection period" is past, there are more than 10% Robustus world wide and they breed true.
Finally, thanks to Hyzmarca...that was just the sort of idea I was looking for to account for Aztlan and Aztechnology.
Isshia
As an aside, by 2048 Mr. Tang (who was born in San Francisco) is 2.64 meters tall and tips the scale at 269kgs and is still somewhat famous as "the first ogre". He is, BTW, a professional wrestler, his generations "Andre the Giant".
Isshia
Isshia
Two words: Class War.
Remember high school? (Or, barring that, since I never went to a regular high school, all the pop-culture representations of it?)
Imagine the whole Jocks vs Nerds vs Thugz vs Preppies thing on multiple doses of K10.
Just abstract the stats and physical descriptions, and instead say that society completely regimented itself into exclusive groups based on attributes and stereotypes instead of any genetic difference. The orks are the tough guys that might be a little more brawn than brains, the Trolls are the really big tough guys that get jobs as bouncers/linebackers/Pro Wrestlers (the TV kind), the effete socialites and charismatic hippies are elves, dwarves are the auto-mechanics and engineers, ect.
If you're only looking at social groups and backstrory, there's no reason to bring the actual stats into it--or you could bring them in and just describe them differently. (Although this greatly expands the range of what is "humanly" possible in your game)
It's really not that hard to imagine, considering how much social BS there is today between these perceived "types" of people. I've always thought shadowrun used metatypes as a kind of metaphor for that anyways. If you look at the stereotypes applied to metahumans, it's usually lifted from an existing human stereotype.
Instead of the Elven family who doesn't want their kid associating with orks, it's the upper-class family who don't approve of their kid's metalhead biker pals. You see these kind of intellectual / manual laborer / socialite divisions all over in our society, just amplify them and there you go.
Remember high school? (Or, barring that, since I never went to a regular high school, all the pop-culture representations of it?)
Imagine the whole Jocks vs Nerds vs Thugz vs Preppies thing on multiple doses of K10.
Just abstract the stats and physical descriptions, and instead say that society completely regimented itself into exclusive groups based on attributes and stereotypes instead of any genetic difference. The orks are the tough guys that might be a little more brawn than brains, the Trolls are the really big tough guys that get jobs as bouncers/linebackers/Pro Wrestlers (the TV kind), the effete socialites and charismatic hippies are elves, dwarves are the auto-mechanics and engineers, ect.
If you're only looking at social groups and backstrory, there's no reason to bring the actual stats into it--or you could bring them in and just describe them differently. (Although this greatly expands the range of what is "humanly" possible in your game)
It's really not that hard to imagine, considering how much social BS there is today between these perceived "types" of people. I've always thought shadowrun used metatypes as a kind of metaphor for that anyways. If you look at the stereotypes applied to metahumans, it's usually lifted from an existing human stereotype.
Instead of the Elven family who doesn't want their kid associating with orks, it's the upper-class family who don't approve of their kid's metalhead biker pals. You see these kind of intellectual / manual laborer / socialite divisions all over in our society, just amplify them and there you go.
I'm beginning to get an handle on the race thing for my game. I'll post it below for critique.
Isshia
QUOTE
The “Races�: We aren’t having other true races, but there are four distinctive racial variations that have come about, starting in mid July of 2013, with the birth of Tang Wan Lu, who weighed 12.7 kilos at birth and by the time he was four years old was 2.01 meters tall and weighed just over 150 kilos. The “strange births became epidemic by early 2014, with as many as one in four hundred live births being affected in the then Central African Republic. In most of the rest of the world, at its height, the “strange births phenomenon� accounted for one in seven hundred and thirty on average, with the absolute height of strange births occurring in February of 2015 and tailing off slowly since then in the “standard population�. By 2048 it is only occurring world wide at the rate of one per thousand or so.
“Trolls�(or Ogres) Homo Sapiens Ingentis: These are not Shadowrun trolls by appearance. They look human, but big, really big. A human male with gigantism today averages just under 7’ tall and usually weighs about 150kgs. The Homo Sapiens Ingentis of “Cold Day in Hell� males average about 240cm in height with around 210kgs in weight being average. Females tend to 90% of the listed height and 85% of the listed weight for males, and both are usually overly endowed with both primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Stats are as per SR*3 except instead of thermographic vision they have a +4 dice advantage when using Intimidation in person and a +2 to Willpower to resist Intimidation of a physical nature. They also have +2 dice for visual perception checks.
As a societal factor there are not allot of these folks around, and because they do tend to be brutish (average IQ for one of these people is about 82) they tend to be treated with fear even when they are extremely personally peaceful. But with an average strength that would make a human heavy weight class weight lifter shudder and their thick skin and massive size, these folks can be great physical assets to add to any team. Their biggest drawback in “Cold Day in Hell� is their rarity. In a city of 300,000 there might be as few as 150 of them totaled.
“Dwarves� (or “the little people�) Homo Sapiens Pumillonis: Again, unlike Shadowrun, these folks do not tend towards excessive hairiness, but from there onward they conform to the Shadowrun ideal for dwarves, but again, minus the thermographic vision and with a compensating advantage. In the case of these folks it’s an odd factor, an aptitude, of the Players choice, for any non combat skill. “Like the little people of legend, they are clever with their hands.� As one famous Trideo pundit put it, but more than that, they can show this aptitude in any one non combat skill.
As a societal factor, these guys are a real oddity. They’re tiny, but tend, unlike people with true dwarfism, towards extremely great physical strength. Before the “mutants� World records were set aside, the old Olympic Records in Weight Lifting, Womens 58kg class, the standing world records were SHATTERED by Emiline Andrews of Wales, with a combined 297 kilos, breaking the existing record by over 50kgs. At the opposite end of the spectrum though is the detestable practice of “stunting�, where young Pumillonis women (and sometimes men) will all but starve themselves, depilate and use other measures to stay as “perpetual children� for the jaded tastes of those who would otherwise be pedophiles.
Albert Trask, the infamous cat burglar who plagued Seattle for three years in the early 2040s is a small, stringy muscled Pumillonis male who is extremely flexible and athletic. Standing a spare 103 cm tall and weighing 35.6kgs he was able to slink in and out of areas where a normally sized person could have never fit and used this, as well as an aptitude for Electronics, especially Security Systems, and his grace and athletic ability to pull a series of supposedly impossible heists.
So, our dwarves aren’t the typical Shadowrun model there either. Still, between the obvious and their inherent talents they are a useful addition to any Shadowrun team, with rarity still being the key factor to their detriment.
“Angels� (or sometimes “the Ishatri�) Homo Sapiens Modificus: No Elves for us. We’ve replaced the term with those noted above. No weird ears, no ethereal whatever. These are genetically enhanced human beings, enhanced before birth, most following a specific enhancement profile, a standardized “upgrade� if you will. It aimed at making a child who was lithe, agile, and greatly self confident, beautiful, slim and graceful and usually extremely willful, with inherent talents for the performing arts and social skills and all around forceful personalities. Although other genetic “upgrades� tend to be hit and miss, with the “Ishtar upgrade� they perhaps succeeded too well. These children simply stand out in any crowd. The least appealing of them are still strikingly above average in appearance and the most striking are heart wrenchingly gorgeous. As they are genetic “upgrades� though they come, almost universally, from families of wealth and position and so draw even a greater degree of envy and jealousy than the non-upgraded children of influence.
Use the stat changes for Elves from Shadowrun, but delete the Low Light Vision and add the Exceptional Attribute (Quickness) advantage. This means that our “Angels� can have a natural eight in Quickness and this can be modified as high as 12, before Cyberware or Bioware, just like their Charismas, but they start no higher than 6 in Quickness (one shy of racial maximums just like everyone else, but the exceptional attribute advantage only applies to maximums set after the game begins). Obviously, very few Angels would ever have the impetus to become Shadowrunners. But adding one to the team could have as many advantages as disadvantages.
“Berserkers� (or Orcs) Homo Sapiens Robustus: Once again, the are not standard Shadowrun Orcs in appearance. They look MUCH more human, although they do tend towards a slightly smaller skull for their size than is standard for a human being, and their musculature is less compact, meaning it looks even more overblown than their strength would indicate. They DO possess the Low Light Vision of their Shadowrun counterparts and there is no such thing as a really small framed Orc. All of them are large framed and sturdily built. In fact the only sure way to tell you are dealing with a Robustus instead of a standard Homo Sapiens Sapiens is by taking a genetic assay. So, many human beings with big frames, heavily muscled and with smaller than average skulls are confused with “Berserkers� and are treated to the same stigmatic view as the true Berserkers are.
These guys are standard as per the Shadowrun game except in gross physical appearance. Nothing else changes except their role in history. It was almost entirely they, not the trolls, not the dwarves and certainly not the Angels, who are the targets of the worst prejudices. Everyone else has their chance at being discriminated against at 50% of what is was. And on any roll that shows another race as the target of discrimination where the 50% roll to avoid the prejudice was made, add prejudice to the Berserkers to the person as well… and yes, this can mean MULTIPLE prejudicial outcomes when dealing with them. Each multiple adds a +1 to the racism number in addition to whatever else was generated. Say the roll had been an 11 and the d6 roll came up 3 (Elves), but the 50% roll said that they weren’t the target. Automatically then it is the Berserkers (Orcs) who get the prejudice, normally a +5 with a roll of 11, but they actually get it at +6.
Other racial prejudices still exist in my SR*3 like game as well though. There are plenty of people willing to do it, and this can stack. So, if you are an African American Robustus in the deep South… Oyy, vay!
“Trolls�(or Ogres) Homo Sapiens Ingentis: These are not Shadowrun trolls by appearance. They look human, but big, really big. A human male with gigantism today averages just under 7’ tall and usually weighs about 150kgs. The Homo Sapiens Ingentis of “Cold Day in Hell� males average about 240cm in height with around 210kgs in weight being average. Females tend to 90% of the listed height and 85% of the listed weight for males, and both are usually overly endowed with both primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Stats are as per SR*3 except instead of thermographic vision they have a +4 dice advantage when using Intimidation in person and a +2 to Willpower to resist Intimidation of a physical nature. They also have +2 dice for visual perception checks.
As a societal factor there are not allot of these folks around, and because they do tend to be brutish (average IQ for one of these people is about 82) they tend to be treated with fear even when they are extremely personally peaceful. But with an average strength that would make a human heavy weight class weight lifter shudder and their thick skin and massive size, these folks can be great physical assets to add to any team. Their biggest drawback in “Cold Day in Hell� is their rarity. In a city of 300,000 there might be as few as 150 of them totaled.
“Dwarves� (or “the little people�) Homo Sapiens Pumillonis: Again, unlike Shadowrun, these folks do not tend towards excessive hairiness, but from there onward they conform to the Shadowrun ideal for dwarves, but again, minus the thermographic vision and with a compensating advantage. In the case of these folks it’s an odd factor, an aptitude, of the Players choice, for any non combat skill. “Like the little people of legend, they are clever with their hands.� As one famous Trideo pundit put it, but more than that, they can show this aptitude in any one non combat skill.
As a societal factor, these guys are a real oddity. They’re tiny, but tend, unlike people with true dwarfism, towards extremely great physical strength. Before the “mutants� World records were set aside, the old Olympic Records in Weight Lifting, Womens 58kg class, the standing world records were SHATTERED by Emiline Andrews of Wales, with a combined 297 kilos, breaking the existing record by over 50kgs. At the opposite end of the spectrum though is the detestable practice of “stunting�, where young Pumillonis women (and sometimes men) will all but starve themselves, depilate and use other measures to stay as “perpetual children� for the jaded tastes of those who would otherwise be pedophiles.
Albert Trask, the infamous cat burglar who plagued Seattle for three years in the early 2040s is a small, stringy muscled Pumillonis male who is extremely flexible and athletic. Standing a spare 103 cm tall and weighing 35.6kgs he was able to slink in and out of areas where a normally sized person could have never fit and used this, as well as an aptitude for Electronics, especially Security Systems, and his grace and athletic ability to pull a series of supposedly impossible heists.
So, our dwarves aren’t the typical Shadowrun model there either. Still, between the obvious and their inherent talents they are a useful addition to any Shadowrun team, with rarity still being the key factor to their detriment.
“Angels� (or sometimes “the Ishatri�) Homo Sapiens Modificus: No Elves for us. We’ve replaced the term with those noted above. No weird ears, no ethereal whatever. These are genetically enhanced human beings, enhanced before birth, most following a specific enhancement profile, a standardized “upgrade� if you will. It aimed at making a child who was lithe, agile, and greatly self confident, beautiful, slim and graceful and usually extremely willful, with inherent talents for the performing arts and social skills and all around forceful personalities. Although other genetic “upgrades� tend to be hit and miss, with the “Ishtar upgrade� they perhaps succeeded too well. These children simply stand out in any crowd. The least appealing of them are still strikingly above average in appearance and the most striking are heart wrenchingly gorgeous. As they are genetic “upgrades� though they come, almost universally, from families of wealth and position and so draw even a greater degree of envy and jealousy than the non-upgraded children of influence.
Use the stat changes for Elves from Shadowrun, but delete the Low Light Vision and add the Exceptional Attribute (Quickness) advantage. This means that our “Angels� can have a natural eight in Quickness and this can be modified as high as 12, before Cyberware or Bioware, just like their Charismas, but they start no higher than 6 in Quickness (one shy of racial maximums just like everyone else, but the exceptional attribute advantage only applies to maximums set after the game begins). Obviously, very few Angels would ever have the impetus to become Shadowrunners. But adding one to the team could have as many advantages as disadvantages.
“Berserkers� (or Orcs) Homo Sapiens Robustus: Once again, the are not standard Shadowrun Orcs in appearance. They look MUCH more human, although they do tend towards a slightly smaller skull for their size than is standard for a human being, and their musculature is less compact, meaning it looks even more overblown than their strength would indicate. They DO possess the Low Light Vision of their Shadowrun counterparts and there is no such thing as a really small framed Orc. All of them are large framed and sturdily built. In fact the only sure way to tell you are dealing with a Robustus instead of a standard Homo Sapiens Sapiens is by taking a genetic assay. So, many human beings with big frames, heavily muscled and with smaller than average skulls are confused with “Berserkers� and are treated to the same stigmatic view as the true Berserkers are.
These guys are standard as per the Shadowrun game except in gross physical appearance. Nothing else changes except their role in history. It was almost entirely they, not the trolls, not the dwarves and certainly not the Angels, who are the targets of the worst prejudices. Everyone else has their chance at being discriminated against at 50% of what is was. And on any roll that shows another race as the target of discrimination where the 50% roll to avoid the prejudice was made, add prejudice to the Berserkers to the person as well… and yes, this can mean MULTIPLE prejudicial outcomes when dealing with them. Each multiple adds a +1 to the racism number in addition to whatever else was generated. Say the roll had been an 11 and the d6 roll came up 3 (Elves), but the 50% roll said that they weren’t the target. Automatically then it is the Berserkers (Orcs) who get the prejudice, normally a +5 with a roll of 11, but they actually get it at +6.
Other racial prejudices still exist in my SR*3 like game as well though. There are plenty of people willing to do it, and this can stack. So, if you are an African American Robustus in the deep South… Oyy, vay!
Isshia
QUOTE (Rad @ Oct 5 2008, 11:01 AM)
If you're only looking at social groups and backstrory, there's no reason to bring the actual stats into it--or you could bring them in and just describe them differently. (Although this greatly expands the range of what is "humanly" possible in your game)
It's really not that hard to imagine, considering how much social BS there is today between these perceived "types" of people.
It's really not that hard to imagine, considering how much social BS there is today between these perceived "types" of people.
The reason for keeping the distinct social groups is to retain as much of the back story as possible. The explanation here is mutation...except that it is also something more, as at the same time as these "strange births" began occurring (and "coincidentally" when the first of the Ishtar Upgrades began appearing) magic was awakening. I'm retaining that whole cloth really. The perception and typing is part of what was mentioned in the "Angels" section I just added and has a place for the non-Berserker humans who fit the bill.
All in all it should make for allot of subtle differences. I'm just trying to keep them as subtle as possible.
Isshia
Well, mutation definitely works--especially with all the pollutants about. Add in the effect of mana and there you go.
My main point was that if you wanted to keep the various social groups and story elements built on metahumans in SR4, while changing the entire populous to "baseline human", you could just replace the words "orks", "elves", ect with the appropriate stereotype or whatever.
ie: the Ork Underground would be renamed, but would still exist as an organization of street-tough humans. It's an interesting concept--something I may play around with someday.
My main point was that if you wanted to keep the various social groups and story elements built on metahumans in SR4, while changing the entire populous to "baseline human", you could just replace the words "orks", "elves", ect with the appropriate stereotype or whatever.
ie: the Ork Underground would be renamed, but would still exist as an organization of street-tough humans. It's an interesting concept--something I may play around with someday.
As another aside to post #13, There are roughly one per thousand Ingentis and Pumillonis in Seattle and roughly one per three thousand Modificus, but Robustus still make up about the Orc percentages of the population you see listed in the 2050 Seattle Sourcebook, which means that they represent more than half a million people officially, and maybe more than that again unofficially. Certainly there are more than 100,000 of them in the Seattle Downtown alone. Which, when compared to the tiny number of the other three "non-human races" combined shows why they get so much attention.
Well, I get to have my Night of Rage back, which while detestably grotesque is still such a major part of the history of Seattle. But on the downside, it means that the Humanis (Now Officially "the Society for Genetic Purity") Policlub also fits in again. Oh well.
Isshia
Well, I get to have my Night of Rage back, which while detestably grotesque is still such a major part of the history of Seattle. But on the downside, it means that the Humanis (Now Officially "the Society for Genetic Purity") Policlub also fits in again. Oh well.
Isshia
QUOTE (Rad @ Oct 5 2008, 01:55 PM)
Well, mutation definitely works--especially with all the pollutants about. Add in the effect of mana and there you go.
My main point was that if you wanted to keep the various social groups and story elements built on metahumans in SR4, while changing the entire populous to "baseline human", you could just replace the words "orks", "elves", ect with the appropriate stereotype or whatever.
ie: the Ork Underground would be renamed, but would still exist as an organization of street-tough humans. It's an interesting concept--something I may play around with someday.
My main point was that if you wanted to keep the various social groups and story elements built on metahumans in SR4, while changing the entire populous to "baseline human", you could just replace the words "orks", "elves", ect with the appropriate stereotype or whatever.
ie: the Ork Underground would be renamed, but would still exist as an organization of street-tough humans. It's an interesting concept--something I may play around with someday.
Hi Rad,
I got your point, but I wanted there to be enough physical variation (without horns and pointy ears and tusks) for it to be a major part of the pillorying going on. The focus for the stereotype Trideo shows from the old Shadowbeat Sourcebook, like "Zappenin' inna Barrens" or "Down the Tubes"
QUOTE
Snuurk starts courting Velveeta until they both remember she's his daughter. Hilarity ensues.
It just doesn't come across as low brow enough if the actor and actress aren't a pair of trolls. We want it to be over the top nastiness, just like the regular game, but without the fluffy bunny effect. It becomes even nastier if the people being pilloried look completely human, especially if they can also come across as slightly retarded at the same time. That gives you even more reason to hate the buggers who would such a show, more identification with the people. While your way provides that even more, it lacks the very physical differences that so much of what low brow humor is is built on.As a whole making the people "all human" and still keeping in variations that are visible (without fluffing them up) allows for the best of both worlds. More identification with the various characters and still that ability to seperate yourself to an extent that is just too difficult with completely human beings.
Isshia
Isshia
I can't help but think you could have made life so much simpler by doing the following things:
Elves don't have pointy ears, orcs don't have tusks, trolls don't have horns.
And boom, the fluffy factor you don't like is gone. Have them be called something else if you like and your done. That took like five seconds of work instead of completely rewriting everything to get the exact same effect.
Keep in mind orcs and trolls and elves and dwarves are all human, just with some genetic oddities, exactly like all the stuff you've made. And they are called elves orcs and trolls and such because when I say 'slender extremely agile but maybe slightly less physically strong then the average human' you think 'wow, that sounds alot like an elf'.
With the advent of movies like LotR, I think if most people nowadays saw someone that looked like an elf, they'd think they looked like an elf. Thus the reason they are called elves. Same with orcs and trolls.
And from reading through your stuff, the people with giantism are called ogres. How is that any better then genetically large and stupid people being called trolls? I understand that you don't like the 'D&D' feel that elves and trolls and such are giving you, but as I said sooo much easier to call them something else and take away the single factor that really irritates you instead of creating whole new rules to give you the exact same effects.
Look back at your rules. You still have short people, dwarves, you still have strong people, orcs, you still have lithe agile people, elves, you still have ultra big and strong people, trolls. You've done alot of work to change troll to ogre and take away his horns.
Elves don't have pointy ears, orcs don't have tusks, trolls don't have horns.
And boom, the fluffy factor you don't like is gone. Have them be called something else if you like and your done. That took like five seconds of work instead of completely rewriting everything to get the exact same effect.
Keep in mind orcs and trolls and elves and dwarves are all human, just with some genetic oddities, exactly like all the stuff you've made. And they are called elves orcs and trolls and such because when I say 'slender extremely agile but maybe slightly less physically strong then the average human' you think 'wow, that sounds alot like an elf'.
With the advent of movies like LotR, I think if most people nowadays saw someone that looked like an elf, they'd think they looked like an elf. Thus the reason they are called elves. Same with orcs and trolls.
And from reading through your stuff, the people with giantism are called ogres. How is that any better then genetically large and stupid people being called trolls? I understand that you don't like the 'D&D' feel that elves and trolls and such are giving you, but as I said sooo much easier to call them something else and take away the single factor that really irritates you instead of creating whole new rules to give you the exact same effects.
Look back at your rules. You still have short people, dwarves, you still have strong people, orcs, you still have lithe agile people, elves, you still have ultra big and strong people, trolls. You've done alot of work to change troll to ogre and take away his horns.
The biggest problem is the supernatural factor and the overblown manner of it. With them being Orcs, trolls dwarves and elves you have the whole D&D litany thrown in. If you look I simply made trolls shorter, dwarves less hairy, elves without pointy ears and orcs tuskless, in essence, but also got rid of the supernatural visual capabilities that don't fit well with the more human appearance or total being. I kept it with Orcs because they are actually the outcome of an engineered process to create super soldiers and Night Sight is something even the US military has worked on in the past.
The idea was to keep the existing flavor while making the whole thing less fluffy AND create a rationale for it. My Players are a bit too picky to let me simply take away the bunny features and change the names, which I love about them, BTW. For them, and for myself, it has to flow. This flows more easily. Also, I think that the simple fact that these ARE human beings makes a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE to the tenor of the game. It makes it less fantasy like and more cyberpunk. Too keep this feel the obvious fluffiness had to be eliminated. Nine and a half foot tall human beings was just too much. I picked on gigantism because it exists. The same is true of dwarfism. For the Ishtarians/Angels/whatevers I have the genetic engineering craze, and somewhat the same answer for the Orcs. But nobody suddenly changed. THAT is the biggest shift in the game. These people were all born the way they are.
For all of that it takes rationale. The reason for coming here to discuss it was to give me the input of allot of creative people on how to improve on those rationales.
And no, it wasn't allot of work. So far it has been part of an evening and an afternoon while I was sitting with writers block on a different project I'm doing and allot of fun in the process.
Isshia
The idea was to keep the existing flavor while making the whole thing less fluffy AND create a rationale for it. My Players are a bit too picky to let me simply take away the bunny features and change the names, which I love about them, BTW. For them, and for myself, it has to flow. This flows more easily. Also, I think that the simple fact that these ARE human beings makes a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE to the tenor of the game. It makes it less fantasy like and more cyberpunk. Too keep this feel the obvious fluffiness had to be eliminated. Nine and a half foot tall human beings was just too much. I picked on gigantism because it exists. The same is true of dwarfism. For the Ishtarians/Angels/whatevers
I have the genetic engineering craze, and somewhat the same answer for the Orcs. But nobody suddenly changed. THAT is the biggest shift in the game. These people were all born the way they are. For all of that it takes rationale. The reason for coming here to discuss it was to give me the input of allot of creative people on how to improve on those rationales.
And no, it wasn't allot of work. So far it has been part of an evening and an afternoon while I was sitting with writers block on a different project I'm doing and allot of fun in the process.
Isshia
Ah well, as long as you and your group enjoy it. Personally I'd have no trouble saying 'ok, elves don't have pointy ears. Done.' of course I also don't have a problem with elves showing up in the first place. I do admit it would be nice to see a setting with 'elves' where they aren't super stuck up, super charismatic, super beautiful, and virtually immortal (age wise). If I was messing with the races, that's what I'd change.
Anyway, enough
from me.
Anyway, enough
from me.
Fluffy bunny? What the heck are you talking about?
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 5 2008, 09:39 PM)
Fluffy bunny? What the heck are you talking about?
It's a term one of my players came up with to describe how the whole idea of trolls and orcs and elves and dwarves make the game appear to him. "Like cotton candy or a fluffy bunny, it just seems to sweet to be cyberpunk."
Now me, I always loved playing Big Blue (my old Troll) but hey, I can see where he is coming from.
Isshia
QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 5 2008, 05:27 PM)
It's a term one of my players came up with to describe how the whole idea of trolls and orcs and elves and dwarves make the game appear to him. "Like cotton candy or a fluffy bunny, it just seems to sweet to be cyberpunk."
Now me, I always loved playing Big Blue (my old Troll) but hey, I can see where he is coming from.
Isshia
Now me, I always loved playing Big Blue (my old Troll) but hey, I can see where he is coming from.
Isshia
Because nothing says fluffy bunny like 8 feet and 300 kilos of muscle, racial stereotypes, racial hatred, and people with fangs/horns. Yeah, totally cotton candy and bunnies.
QUOTE (Cantankerous @ Oct 5 2008, 04:27 PM)
It's a term one of my players came up with to describe how the whole idea of trolls and orcs and elves and dwarves make the game appear to him. "Like cotton candy or a fluffy bunny, it just seems to sweet to be cyberpunk."
Now me, I always loved playing Big Blue (my old Troll) but hey, I can see where he is coming from.
Isshia
Now me, I always loved playing Big Blue (my old Troll) but hey, I can see where he is coming from.
Isshia
He isn't seeing it right. Or he isn't looking at the right books, because it ain't. Especially with orks and trolls. Imagine if, one day, quite suddenly, a sizable chunk of the population went through a long horrifically painful and often transformation into something large and monsterous with tusks and horns and bony growths.
To better understand the plight to the tusked man, I recommend reading Changeling.
Elfs and Dwarfs aren't much better, particularly the spike babies. Nothing quite like mysterious unidentifiable birth defects to make a bunch of parents panic.
And dragons. Dragons aren't fluffy either. They're what you get if you cut out Machiavelli's brain and put it in Godzilla's body. They're solitary predatory lizards. They have no social instincts, they have neither need nor desire for friendship or companionship. They see others as either enemies or pawns and treat them accordingly. They're some of the scarriest things in the world, not because they're absurdly magically powerful or because they have absurd amounts of wealth, though both are true. It is simply because they are unable to see anything morally wrong with eating the people who annoy them, and those who aren't powerful enough to get away with doing so are at least arrogant enough to believe that they can.
*shrugs*
elves pretty much get that reaction from me too . .
if you don't like the usual troll or orc, just use their meta-variants that look more human . . giants and ogre or whatever that one for orks was . .
and aside from the ears, there's nothing really differentiating a dwarf from a small human and an elf from a thin tall human . . so just change the ears bit . .
if you go with poli-clubs and corps like aztech, you don't need to change all that much background wise either.
the corps just try and get their hands on those people to conduct medical experiments, and for the night of rage, the poli clubs are your average, run of the mill nazi/religious zealots and wanna get rid of everything that they themselves do not think has a right to exist because it's different . .
and mutation is the way to explain all of those things too. especially critters. and dragons are critters, maybe mutated whales or really big snakes or lizards or what have you . . so just switch them out for any human and nothing much changes . . you can still have the dragons obliterating cities and duking it out in the air with each other . . but it's just a dumb animal doing their territorial stuff, nothing else, and after that, the animal disappears again or something like that and everything else just continues as it had in the official cannon shadowrun timeline/background story/fluff . . maybe aztlan just got hit harder in denver than everyone else and everyone else decided to gang up on them and kick them out and then distribute their loot among the rest . . because 25% of something is better than 100/05% of nothing and they were weak and everybody hated them anyway . .
something else occured to me . . why/how do ghouls get to mate anyway? they are frigging canibals, they eat about everything that was made off meat and walked on 4 or less legs . . they would probably eat their offspring as they are weak and easy prey . . maybe eat the female as she's carrying because she is weaker and more meat at the time . . i don't really wanna think about this, as i am now about to go to bed, but you made me! shame on you!
elves pretty much get that reaction from me too . .
if you don't like the usual troll or orc, just use their meta-variants that look more human . . giants and ogre or whatever that one for orks was . .
and aside from the ears, there's nothing really differentiating a dwarf from a small human and an elf from a thin tall human . . so just change the ears bit . .
if you go with poli-clubs and corps like aztech, you don't need to change all that much background wise either.
the corps just try and get their hands on those people to conduct medical experiments, and for the night of rage, the poli clubs are your average, run of the mill nazi/religious zealots and wanna get rid of everything that they themselves do not think has a right to exist because it's different . .
and mutation is the way to explain all of those things too. especially critters. and dragons are critters, maybe mutated whales or really big snakes or lizards or what have you . . so just switch them out for any human and nothing much changes . . you can still have the dragons obliterating cities and duking it out in the air with each other . . but it's just a dumb animal doing their territorial stuff, nothing else, and after that, the animal disappears again or something like that and everything else just continues as it had in the official cannon shadowrun timeline/background story/fluff . . maybe aztlan just got hit harder in denver than everyone else and everyone else decided to gang up on them and kick them out and then distribute their loot among the rest . . because 25% of something is better than 100/05% of nothing and they were weak and everybody hated them anyway . .
something else occured to me . . why/how do ghouls get to mate anyway? they are frigging canibals, they eat about everything that was made off meat and walked on 4 or less legs . . they would probably eat their offspring as they are weak and easy prey . . maybe eat the female as she's carrying because she is weaker and more meat at the time . . i don't really wanna think about this, as i am now about to go to bed, but you made me! shame on you!
The hole left by the lack of metahuman races could be filled easily by applying our current trend towards genetic modification (both intentionally and unintentionally) and would also serve to explain why cybertechnology overcame biotechnology as the dominant form of self-modification.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 5 2008, 11:28 PM)
something else occured to me . . why/how do ghouls get to mate anyway? they are frigging canibals, they eat about everything that was made off meat and walked on 4 or less legs . . they would probably eat their offspring as they are weak and easy prey . . maybe eat the female as she's carrying because she is weaker and more meat at the time . . i don't really wanna think about this, as i am now about to go to bed, but you made me! shame on you!
Hey! Don't play with your food!
Great, now I have this visual about a farmer, an unsuspecting sheep, velcro gloves and a slab of veal with special sauce.
-Siege
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 5 2008, 05:28 PM)
something else occured to me . . why/how do ghouls get to mate anyway? they are frigging canibals, they eat about everything that was made off meat and walked on 4 or less legs . . they would probably eat their offspring as they are weak and easy prey . . maybe eat the female as she's carrying because she is weaker and more meat at the time . . i don't really wanna think about this, as i am now about to go to bed, but you made me! shame on you!
How many of your family members have you eaten?
I don't know, personally I fall into the camp of if you don't like metahumans just remove them and change the backstory as necessary, for example, the Night of Rage becomes aimed either at low powered Awakened, squatters in general, or an ethnic group living in Seattle, the Tirs can keep the IE connection by tapping into the legends of Mages who traded their souls for immortality, and Dragons, well personally I'd keep the Dragons just because they are so iconic of Magic in general. Less work overall and personally I don't see how you have to lose the backstory just by making all of the players human.
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 7 2008, 04:43 AM)
How many of your family members have you eaten?
non, but i ain't cannibal at all . .
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 6 2008, 10:43 PM)
How many of your family members have you eaten?
Are we counting babies?
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Oct 7 2008, 03:19 AM)
non, but i ain't cannibal at all . .
Meat is meat. If you feel like having a steak, there's nothing wrong with grabbing a knife and slicing one off of whomever is handy.
QUOTE (nezumi)
Are we counting babies?
Yes. But only if you're related to them.
My lawyer has told me not to answer this question because, while meat is meat, and baby meat is the most delicious of them all, irrational regulations based on environmentally-damaging religious morality has made such behavior one best approached with hrm... modesty. And a little A1.
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 7 2008, 09:22 PM)
Meat is meat. If you feel like having a steak, there's nothing wrong with grabbing a knife and slicing one off of whomever is handy.
Yes. But only if you're related to them.
Yes. But only if you're related to them.
there's a difference in the SOCIETY . . in OUR society it's generally frowned upon to do so . .
but in a society of ghouls, there are probably no such conventions around . . the only thing stopping one ghouls from simply killing/eating another ghoul is, the simple fact that even with being accomplished hunters, ghouls are dangerous prey as well and can defend themselves probably quite well at least against one of their own kind . . but if 5 to 10 ghouls decide:"we're hungry, gramma does not help bring in anything to eat and still wants her share, we should just eat her and resolve two problems with one bite" ol' granna ghoul is probably not gonna last long . . at least if granny is dead allready, why would they not eat her? spider-babies eat their dead mothers, and they are not the only example in todays world . . though the only one i can think of on the fly . .
Ghouls are people with Magic AIDS, not aliens. Their society is our society.
aside from a good chunk of them losing any semblance of an intelligent human mind and eating everything that can't run from them . .
ok, so maybe that's only feral ghouls but eh . .
ok, so maybe that's only feral ghouls but eh . .
I would think the main reason they don't eat each other is along the lines of why wolves don't eat each other, and virtually any other predator doesn't eat each other. Hunting in packs makes for easier kills with less risk overall and less risk to each individual. Also the other thing is roughly as strong as you, no point risking an even fight when there are weaker things to eat.
Also, I'm sure there is still -some- level of 'continuation of the species' left in them, which would be why they don't attack their own babies and pregnant mothers. Now, if one gets too old to hunt and defend itself, then it is a liability and not worth wasting meat on. And ghouls being ghouls they'd likely use them as a source of meat as opposed to simply cutting them out and letting them try and survive on their own.
Of course this is entirely outside the OP. I think we were talking about taking Metahumans out of the game so that we could introduce genetically different humans who resemble trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves because we don't like the magically genetically different humans who are called trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves.
Also, I'm sure there is still -some- level of 'continuation of the species' left in them, which would be why they don't attack their own babies and pregnant mothers. Now, if one gets too old to hunt and defend itself, then it is a liability and not worth wasting meat on. And ghouls being ghouls they'd likely use them as a source of meat as opposed to simply cutting them out and letting them try and survive on their own.
Of course this is entirely outside the OP. I think we were talking about taking Metahumans out of the game so that we could introduce genetically different humans who resemble trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves because we don't like the magically genetically different humans who are called trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves.
Most ghouls lose significant amounts of intelligence, perhaps becoming wild and uncontrolled beasts. They are suffering from a strange disease which alters the brain chemistry, making it closer to rabies than AIDS (and animals with rabies will attack their offspring. In fact, most diseases spread by contact, including through violence, with those closest to the victim, not throuh the victim reproducing.) The argument that it's human society only goes so far because they were just cast out of human society, generally in a frantic and sudden transition. Such transitions often leave people morally ungrounded when they're in the best of health. If you took a person, suddenly ungrounded him by putting him in an alien environment, changing his identity and physical looks, his brain chemistry and attractions, left him hurt and starving, then tested to see how strongly those embedded social mores stick, I would tend to say the answer would be 'not very much'. This is especially true if the ghoul society he then attaches himself to already condones eating one's own young.
Ultimately, the more the victim is treated like a human, the more he will act like a human (in most cases) and the more he will stick to human values. The more he is treated like an uncontrollable beast, the more he will have no choice but to fulfill that role, or expire.
Ultimately, the more the victim is treated like a human, the more he will act like a human (in most cases) and the more he will stick to human values. The more he is treated like an uncontrollable beast, the more he will have no choice but to fulfill that role, or expire.
Just coming across the thread, and not having read everything, I have to say that I've had the same feelings about metahumans and other self-aware awakened creatures. I don't particularly enjoy the D&D/SR crossover, and it detracts from the cyberpunk feel, to be honest. I have often thought of erasing them from my game, but you're right, it is very hard to just take it all out. At the very least it's an intimidating task.
QUOTE (Karaden @ Oct 8 2008, 01:40 AM)
Of course this is entirely outside the OP. I think we were talking about taking Metahumans out of the game so that we could introduce genetically different humans who resemble trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves because we don't like the magically genetically different humans who are called trolls, orks, elves, and dwarves.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Keep the flavor, do as little rewriting as possible, but still keep it tight, and get rid of the D&D element. It's nearly ready now and a few things changed fairly substantially to keep it tight, but all in all I'm pleased with the outcome and think that this was what my Players were asking for. Thank you to all of you who chimed in. It is appreciated.
As an aside, I did end up with five or six main types of genetically "Improved/Enhanced" types to take the place of elves. And still kept the numbers similar. It'll prove interesting I think and changes allot of the feel more towards cyberpunk without changing the flavor. Ahh, our gene enhanced "super"men, how I had missed them without ever knowing it.
Isshia
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.