Hi,
After reading the rules I can't decide if I should pay for magic that I have lost due to essence lost (cyber/bio ware) at character creation.

IE If I have a Mage with Magic 5, it costs 40 points (as one point comes free with the magician quality). My question is, if I have lost one point of essence due to cyberware, do I still pay the same price for magic attribute at build time, or do I have to pay for the point I lost as well?

Cheers


Max,
Dunedin NZ.

I believe the RAW is unclear on this, but don't quote me on that.

You buy the Magic before adjusting it for Essense loss. If you get a Magic of 5, then lose a point of Essense (or fraction thereof), your Magic is now 4. So yes, you pay for the point you have "lost".

Pg. 84 is where it states "Any reductions to a character's Essense will also affect his Magic or Resonance."

You buy a magic rating, then it gets reduced by anything that you implant.

Which is silly, when Latent Awakening works exactly the opposite. In my opinion, you should pay for your end result.

Latent Awakening is an exception in that it never even comes to pass without the GM choosing to grant it later on in the game.

Although Latent Awakening does come with it own questions:

• How much does it cost to raise your new Magic attribute? Is it based on going from 1 to 2, or is it based on how much Magic you would have to have to still have a point left after cyber?
• If you do have cyber, and then awaken, and then get the cyber removed , and the Essence restored, does your magic go up automatically? Or do you just get your max back up?

1) Raising from 1 to 2. This should be obvious, as that is exactly how raising it after Magic (Essence) Loss works.
2) No, for the same reasons your Magic would not increase in the same circumstances if you had actually lost the Magic.

Once you Awaken with Latent Awakening, you are treated exactly like any other Awakened character. No exceptions, no questions. The only thing different from Latent Awakening & Magician (or other) is that with Latent Awakening, you do not need to pay for Essence Lost obtained before your Awakening.

Actually your making an assumption here that not everyone does. There was a huge debate (more then one I'm sure, but only one I spesifically remember) about the relation between essence and magic loss.

To sum it up there where two main ideas. One was what you are saying, if you lose a point (or part thereof) of essence, your magic goes down by one and the fact that it was higher is completely forgotten. The other idea was that your magic acts very much like an enhanced attribute, and you would have magic 5(4) and thus would have to pay the cost to raise from 5->6 to get your effective magic to raise to 5.

The largest arugment for the second method was so that people didn't twink out by getting a magic of 2, buying an essence of wares, raising to 2 again for only 6 karma, and repeating. It also helps to further limit awakened who take 'ware because they have a lower effective max.

#1 (what I have posted above) is Rules as Written. When you loose Essence, it is a permanent reduction to your Magic & Magic Maximum. Karma advancement costs are determined by your current value.

#2 is what it should be, & I have included in my suggestions for house-rules (most notably Karma Generation/Advancement alterations).

I compleatly agree with #2, but alot of people make the same argument for other stats that are permanently reduced (Notably Edge from people invoking Hand of God or whatever it is called to prevent people sitting at 2 edge and buying their way out of trouble)

Of course I'm not saying one way or the other, I'm just pointing out that this happens to be a rather large issue on the forums (Or used to be, haven't been around for a long time). This is exactly why the person asked the question in the first place.

My best answer is treat it however you would a mage having lost essence and currently being at 1 magic. If that means their at 1 magic, then they increase as if going to 2 just like normal. If that means they're at 4(1) magic, then you increase going to 5 just like normal.