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Machiavelli
On our last session I had a little bit time for my own and due to the faxt that my character is quite curious, I wanted to check the meals at "Big Rhino". I have overflown the Seattle Sourcebook and except that it has an entrance to the Orc Underground I haven´t seen anything that would classify this restaurant as a threat to no non-orc or troll characters. Because I had some troubles with some orcs beeing an elf, I even changed my appearance to a norm-character, but without some additional magic tricks, I nearly wouldn´t have survived this meal. Did some serious things change since the infos from SS that I missed? Isn´t it a usual restaurant that is even frequented by tough tourist? I knew that it would be a rough experience, but that what happened there was like a common day in the Barrens.

I would be very thankful for some infos about this topic.
sunnyside
*sniff sniff*

I smell GM criticism in the air.

The bottom line in these things is that it's the GMs call. Every GM handles shadowrun differently. And most of them will respond to "But it says right here this place should be friendly" by rolling a pile of dice and asking you to dodge.

My advice to you is to take ques from the books. But float things past your GM first. A quick ettiquette or knowledge roll could get you the info on where you're going. Then decide if it's worth it in their game world.

Machiavelli
No no, this is absolutely not about GM critc. It is just about backround informations. I simply think my knowledge is old-fashioned. So I need advice if this is really a bad place for an norm.
Whipstitch
Things will vary from GM to GM, but here's my take on it.

The Big Rhino has traditionally always been a bit dangerous for non-orks and trolls. According to Runner Havens, it's gotten a little better, but if you don't take measures to fit in, you can expect to be hassled a bit. And unfortunately, you're an elf, so the odds of fitting in are probably slim to none unless you're a hell of a Face. As a general rule in my games, the average elf or human shouldn't expect anything but food and a few odd looks if they go to the Big Rhino. Unless you've got a decent rep among the clientele or are accompanied by an ork or troll, the place isn't really worth visiting for anything but some food. The Rhino's a good starting place for contacts and a great introduction to the Ork Underground in my games, but you need to understand that the Ork Underground is an extended community with no real need for the average tourist. These places were built for metas by metas, and disrespecting the local color (even accidentally) is a quick way to get a boot up your nether regions.
Machiavelli
Yeah, I think this is the time to switch to orc with a physical mask spell the next time smile.gif
FlashbackJon
QUOTE (Machiavelli @ Oct 10 2008, 12:20 PM) *
Yeah, I think this is the time to switch to orc with a physical mask spell the next time smile.gif

Until the ork street shaman in the corner casually glances into the astral. biggrin.gif
DocTaotsu
Actually I was under the impression that tourism was kinda a big deal in the better traveled spots. I'd think that the BR would be a prime candidate for that.

But that's just me. I think an etiquette or local area knowledge would have been sufficient to note this as a place "That habitually tries to kill elves who are making an effort to not look uh... like elves".
Wesley Street
My interpretation of The Big Rhino entry in the Seattle Sourcebook, is that, while it's a place for orks and trolls to be themselves, it's also an institution that's trying to legitimize itself in the eyes of mainstream society. Think Harlem in the 1920s-1950s. White people would flock up there from Manhattan for the African-American nightlife and jazz clubs. Non-orks may not be welcomed with hugs and song but I don't they would be driven away from the public areas of the Underground either.
Machiavelli
That was also my opinion. So there is not corebook-based knowledge that would explain this happenings? Ok. Thanks.
MJBurrage
Given the details below, you seem to have gotten a rougher than normal reaction from the patrons. However, it is also plausible that a lone elf using magic to hide their race was the real cause. I could see that as a provocation once noticed. You should have been better off just going as yourself (still getting verbal abuse, but not overt physical harassment).

Seattle Sourcebook (page 23)
There are many ways to enter the Underground, but the only safe ways for non-Orks are via the official tour entrances in the basement of the Seattle Utilities Building (Seneca Street and First Avenue, inside the Big Rhino Restaurant) and in the basement of Lordstrung's Department Store on Fifth Avenue and Pine Street.
Seattle Sourcebook (page 29)
The Big Rhino (#31 Downtown)
Large Restaurant Archetype/Seneca Street & First Avenue/Gregory Armtwister, Owner/Bias against non-Orks and Trolls/LTG# 206 (56-9145).
The best Ork restaurant on the west coast is a no-frills eatery in the basement of the Seattle Utilities Building, near one of the public entrances into the Ork underground city. The Big Rhino is more of a dining hall than a typical restaurant. Customers sit down at long tables and are automatically given huge steins of beer. The cuisine is heavy on meat and sauces, as might be expected from Ork food.
>>>>>[There is entertainment during most hours, usually foul-mouthed comics or strippers, with the patrons throwing food or bones at them when not pleased with a performance. This is not a family restaurant by any stretch of the imagination. Warning to non-Ork tourists; most of the customers are Ork and most will be drunk, which could mean you will be singled out for verbal abuse. Do not go alone if you want to avoid trouble!]<<<<<
—Connie Connoisseur (02:17:16/11-24-50)
Seattle Sourcebook (page 33)
A full color advertisement for "The Best Ork Restaurant on the West Coast", that seems trendy and upscale (fitting page 23 better than it fits 29).
(edited to fix typo)
Fortune
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Oct 11 2008, 07:01 AM) *
... The Bog Rhino (#31 Downtown)


Quite the fitting typo, considering the clientle. biggrin.gif
Whipstitch
You have to remember that this is the Sixth world we're talking about. A luxury box at the next Combat Bike exhibition and private invitations to wager on various underground blood sports can also very high end and trendy. The Big Rhino's "authenticity" is probably one of its bigger selling points amongst suits in a hurry to prove how hip, urban and manly they are.
Daddy's Little Ninja
In RL Snow fox loves BBQ ribs so she made a point of getting her main SR, human, character to dine there regularly. There was a chance for lots of role play until she was accepted.
Wesley Street
So what would be the real-life equivalent of ork or troll cuisine? Soul Food? Cajun? I don't see them digging the whole Country Fried scene too much as the batter would take away from the taste of meat.
Whipstitch
I'd model it around a Churrascaria, myself, but with a lot of thick, hearty sauces, garlic and curries as well.
paws2sky
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Oct 14 2008, 12:13 PM) *
So what would be the real-life equivalent of ork or troll cuisine? Soul Food? Cajun? I don't see them digging the whole Country Fried scene too much as the batter would take away from the taste of meat.


Anything that would play up the real flavors of the food. Plus, anything spicy is a winner.

As a GM, I'm of the opinion that The Big Rhino has undergone some serious changes in the past 20 years. This is pretty much non-canon, mind you...

In the 2050's the place was a rough where being anything other than an ork or troll was likely to get you nothing sort of terrible service/food. And if you kept coming despite the terrible food/service, then you'd likely get yourself a good natured asskicking. (Think of Rocky Horror's tradition of hazing the "virgins," but with gut punches). If you survive that and have the balls to come back again, you are likely to be accepted if you show respect.

In the 2060's the Big Rhino tried to reinvent itself a couple times, hoping to attract a wider customer base. They tried a couple different formats, but eventually went back to the old dining house model. Fortunately, by that time Oxploitation was taking off and the owners soon found themselves with more customers than they could handle. All of them searching for that "authentic" ork dining experience. Of course, many of The Big Rhino's old regulars have moved on, pointing to the BR's apparent gentrification as a reason. The new crowd consisting of orks, trolls, and anyone with nuyen, don't seem to mind that the place has settled down a bit though.

-paws
Daddy's Little Ninja
Ork cooking is big on meats so think a serious BBQ joint in RL, Lots of meat and sauces and the only greens are the garnishes of parsley
Machiavelli
So this seems to be definitely the right place for an class-3-surged-female-elf-darkmage with a foible for spearribs in BBQ sauce. wink.gif Yeah...no risk, no fun.^^ See you on the other side.
TKDNinjaInBlack
Don't forget about the atmosphere they are trying to pump into the joint though. It's big on large rowdy dinning hall etiquette from the middle ages, Bavaria or old Norse styles. Big long tables made of really heavy wood, wenches bringing synthbrew around that will burn your tastebuds off and knock you on your ass, and lots of flesh, cooked to perfection. I've been to a few of these places in Germany (where the cooking is a bit better) and in the US where there were large German populations that settled when they came over the ocean. A lot of them became large pole barns with smokers at the back just cooking meat nonstop all day and large amounts of the community all show up and fill the place, elbow to elbow and eat till their heart's content.

They really take it seriously, and most of them are getting more than intoxicated. Apply that to an ork and some trolls who see an outsider shun their food, thereby insulting his or her taste in said food? With the alcohol and group bravado that's beefing up the manly testosterone feelings you can kind of see why this is a problem. Yeah, it's a hotbed for getting punched in the mouth and told to mind your place if you don't act properly. Always tell the big ork whose elbows are in your way that it's the best you've ever had and that you never knew such good food existed unless you want a knuckle sandwich instead.

Snow_Fox
Right. As DLN reported I really do like BBQ so the idea of a place like Big Rhino for food would really draw me in, so my charatcer- human, non-surged, made a point of going there until she was accepted as "ok for a human" type.
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