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Iracundus

Oct 16 2008, 02:14 PM

Just random thoughts: How do the prehistoric eras of mammoths, dinosaurs, and even earlier prehistoric life fit into the SR/ED universe, given the existence of the mana cycle? If during the 4th and 2nd World, the Horrors did so much damage as to virtually obliterate all life in certain eras, and were only blocked through magical shelters, how does one explain why all life on Earth hasn't been made extinct already in the distant past before the rise of sentient life? While the more intelligent Horrors may have only arisen (or taken interest) when sentient life evolved, the more bestial Horrors seem content to munch on nonsentient life and even inanimate material. Wouldn't they have already scoured the Earth clean?

Machiavelli

Oct 16 2008, 02:34 PM

Maybe....if they weren´t as slipshot as the guys from ED/SR that invented them^^. They tried to, but they simply forgot to kill ém all.^^

DocTaotsu

Oct 16 2008, 03:04 PM

*closes his eyes and waves his hand around furtively*

I sense... I sense... yes I feel it... there's a Chuck Norris joke in here somewhere...

MJBurrage

Oct 16 2008, 03:09 PM

As far as we know (great dragon history, which predates recorded history for the other races), non-horror sentience in the ED/SR world only goes back to around 24,000 BC.

The vast record of fossil history predates that by a vast amount.

One possibility is that the ~5,200 year mana cycle has existed as long as life has, and that said cycle is connected to the horrors' feeding cycle. Compare to a tidal area, we are the animals that live in the mud through the tidal cycles, and the fish are the horrors. So the fossil record shows the past animals that fully lived on Earth over the ages while the horrors simply come and go with magic, festing during high tide, and leaving us alone for the rest of the cycle.

Another possibility is that the horrors themselves are the dinosaurs etc. of the fossil record. Magic did not used to come and go, it was just here with the horrors from when life first arose. In this case, the mana cycle only started when the first sentient races drove the horrors away, beginning the first down-cycle (the First World) circa 23,600 BC

hyzmarca

Oct 16 2008, 03:22 PM

Another possibility is that the Horrors simply did not discover Earth until relatively recently. While dragon myth states that Nightslayer created dragons and metahumans, there is no evidence to suggest that he created any other form of life. Presumably, everything else was already here when he found the place. And the other Horrors simply followed him here.

Ed_209a

Oct 16 2008, 03:51 PM

Maybe what we consider the mana cycle is actually a combination of two cycles: one, the 5200-year one we are familiar with, and the other, much longer cycle that completely blocked the effect of the first cycle until 23600 BC.

Or maybe some mage on another plane did something that weakened the boundaries between the astral and our physical, and started the mana cycle around 23600 BC.

Or maybe the universe is 26000 years old...

<shrug>

So much is possible once you accept the assumption that magic works.

Matsci

Oct 16 2008, 06:20 PM

Dinosaur extinction - ~65,000,000 BC
1st World begins- 23615 BC
Number of Ages between the two?
~12,675

There may have been Magic Dinosaurs. Keep in Mind that

TKDNinjaInBlack

Oct 16 2008, 06:22 PM

Don't forget that there have been other large mass extinctions throughout prehistory. Granted most of these all happened way before any of the cycles of mana ever came and went, but still, one could use that knowledge with some creative storytelling and explain the horrors did it.

nezumi

Oct 16 2008, 07:05 PM

There were no dinosaurs. Verjigorm just hid bones and made them look really ancient so we wouldn't believe he really exists until he leaps out and attacks us. It's all a cunning plan.

Karaden

Oct 16 2008, 07:35 PM

QUOTE (Matsci @ Oct 16 2008, 01:20 PM)

There may have been Magic Dinosaurs. Keep in Mind that

So many ideas that come with that which are equal parts cool and evil.

I can't get the image of a raptor wearing a leather jacket, wielding some big ass pistol, and blasting magic, out of my head. Maybe they really where smart but the horrors killed 99.99% of them off before they could be banished, as well as destroying to the foundation all cities/weapons/other signs of tech. Unlikely, but the image just won't go away!

hermit

Oct 17 2008, 09:50 AM

QUOTE

There may have been Magic Dinosaurs. Keep in Mind that

Like Dragons? Or T'skrang?

I always favoured a bit of a lovecraftian approach - dragons once were the dominant species on earth, having a grand a civilisation based only on their innante magics, until they really fucked up with magic and brought the horrors about earth, extincting most species at that time. Since then, they're few and far between and try and clean up their mess. The mana cycle propably is what dragons devised to keep the horrors out of this world at least for some time.

It makes almost as much sense as other 'why did the dinosaurs die out' theories, too!

As for the triassic extinction, I tend to blame this on the Mi-Go. No lovecraftian story without blaming the Mi-Go for something.

Fuchs

Oct 17 2008, 10:48 AM

I'll go with "ED's history is wrong."

Blade

Oct 17 2008, 11:45 AM

Am I the only one who thinks "Shadowrun+Cadillac and Dinosaur" when reading the title of this thread?

Particle_Beam

Oct 17 2008, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (hermit @ Oct 17 2008, 11:50 AM)

Partially wrong!

The Truth, revealed.

otakusensei

Oct 17 2008, 04:38 PM

I'm so glad my players agreed "Everything we know is wrong." and left it at that.

hermit

Oct 17 2008, 05:01 PM

It's really not like paleonthology is a hot button topic in most SR groups ...

ShadeRavnos

Oct 17 2008, 05:11 PM

You know... I've always been wondering about this subject but haven't given it much thought. And My players only want to kill things and get bigger weapons... not much on RP with this group. I feel sad, and may have to run with my Deadlands group. Maybe they'll get into looking at the history of the world.

ludomastro

Oct 17 2008, 05:12 PM

QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 17 2008, 05:45 AM)

Am I the only one who thinks "Shadowrun+Cadillac and Dinosaur" when reading the title of this thread?

Not at all. I wondered if anyone else actually remembered that show when I saw the title of the thread.

Floyd

Oct 17 2008, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 17 2008, 12:45 PM)

Am I the only one who thinks "Shadowrun+Cadillac and Dinosaur" when reading the title of this thread?

That's what that was. I saw the guy on the hood of that convertible with the hot blond and the T-rex and was like....I know this.
Wouldn't be more like Nightsky and Dragons.
Are those really dragon bones? Did prehistoric dragons look like dinosaurs?
Where to the Old Ones, the Great Old Ones, and the Really Old Ones fit in? More Important, where my Esoteric Order of Dagon at?

"The end is near. I hear a noise at the door, as of some immense slippery body lumbering against it. It shall not find me. God, that hand! The window! The window!"

Chrysalis

Oct 17 2008, 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Blade @ Oct 17 2008, 02:45 PM)

Am I the only one who thinks "Shadowrun+Cadillac and Dinosaur" when reading the title of this thread?

Cadillacs and dinosaurs was an okay RPG.

-Chrysalis

Rasumichin

Oct 18 2008, 02:32 PM

QUOTE (Karaden @ Oct 16 2008, 08:35 PM)

I can't get the image of a raptor wearing a leather jacket, wielding some big ass pistol, and blasting magic, out of my head.

Sometimes, SURGElings end up with dinosaur features (okay, the text uses the fancy paleonthologist terms "saurishian and ornithishian features", but that still boils down to "people looking like humanoid dinosaurs"), so that's already entirely possible by RAW.

For the raptor guy, i'd recommend Satyr Legs, Claws, probably also a re-fluffed version of Beak, a Balancing Tail and Scales.
There you go, full raptor.

I've already built a stegosaur roommate for one of my PCs (i just had to use the Thagomizer quality for someone) and with the given qualities, one could stat all kinds of prehistoric SURGElings, from dinosaurs to mammoths and sabretooth tigers.
Or probably even antropomorphic trilobites...

hermit

Oct 18 2008, 03:00 PM

I have built an Illithid race for someone (based on an elf, for maximized charisma).

Rasumichin

Oct 18 2008, 03:15 PM

That idea crossed my head, too.
Based upon a nosferatu or a similar Infected.
I'm not quite certain yet how to handle the brainsucky part, probably i should use a wendigo template instead.
Yeah, i could just play D&D, but then, in D&D i can't build KITT and McGyver as well...

Stahlseele

Oct 18 2008, 03:25 PM

QUOTE (Alex @ Oct 17 2008, 07:12 PM)

Not at all. I wondered if anyone else actually remembered that show when I saw the title of the thread.

not too long ago i actually had some of the episodes on my hard drive . .
i am a sucker for those old jewels ^^
still looking for some stuff too . . silverhawks, thundercat, robocop, iron man/hulk(not the stop motion please ^^)
if it would not cost more than 200euro, something about 500$ or something like that, at least 350$ i think, i would have bought saber rider allready . .

hermit

Oct 18 2008, 03:36 PM

QUOTE

That idea crossed my head, too.
Based upon a nosferatu or a similar Infected.
I'm not quite certain yet how to handle the brainsucky part, probably i should use a wendigo template instead.

Food requirement (human brains) and combining tentacle head with a bite attack. I didn't make it a banshee derivate, though, because vampiric ilithids were considered a different race in the monster manual when I had a short look at it (or I mixed something up there). It's a 65 BP race.

I also considered rebuilding all the ED races (save for obsidimen), but haven't yet gotten the respective books.

hyzmarca

Oct 18 2008, 03:58 PM

Now I'm thinking about the old toy-based cartoon called Dino Riders, in which two races of time-traveling aliens fought a war on prehistoric Earth by strapping laser cannons and armor to dinosaurs.

I've come to the conclusion that it would probably be cheaper for a corp to clone a dinosaur and cyber it up with armor, cannons, and a stirup rig, than it would be for them to just build a tank. Also, cyborg dinosaurs with anti-tank cannons are awesome.

Stahlseele

Oct 18 2008, 04:00 PM

ah yes, dino riders . . every time i look it up and see there's only about 13 to 26 episodes, i allways wonder how that show seemed so much longer to me back then O.o
hrm, Biker Mice From Mars . . more or less perfectly doable, even in a low-power campagin O.o

Chrysalis

Oct 18 2008, 08:10 PM

There is this one show where they had two annoying humans Something (tall thin whiny guy) and Bob (round jovial with a yellow full beard), and were being chased around by this dinosaur black ops team. Mid 90s I think.

Anyone remember what this cartoon was called?

Stahlseele

Oct 18 2008, 08:27 PM

ludomastro

Oct 18 2008, 10:16 PM

Those your clips? Either way, that's awesome!

Stahlseele

Oct 18 2008, 10:32 PM

nah, nice guy on youtube named firecloud134 i talk to from time to time. drop him a line if you enjoy this as much as i do ^^
some of those clips ain't even watchable in germany . .
and yes, they are, aren't they?
he's still updating from time to time, i remember when it was only about 300 minutes of intros, and that was bad enough watching in one sitting . .
but aah, the memories! and the new interesting series you find when doing something like that ^^

hyzmarca

Oct 18 2008, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Oct 18 2008, 04:10 PM)

The Terrible Thunder Lizards. They were mercenary criminals released from prison by the government on the condition that they hunt down and kill the humans.

Chrysalis

Oct 19 2008, 09:01 AM

QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Oct 19 2008, 02:04 AM)

The Terrible Thunder Lizards. They were mercenary criminals released from prison by the government on the condition that they hunt down and kill the humans.

Aww thanks Hyz, I knew you would know it.

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