I´ll make it quick: The tagomizer gives Reach+1, but if you are e.g. a troll which already has natural reach +1 due to his size, his tail should also be longer than the tagomizer of a human character. So do the reach mods add up?

This probably belongs in the main forum but sure, I'd allow it. I would also Humannis goons to pay him a visit now and again, probably add the Freaks subtext for interaction. Don't get me started on his modified clothing costs.

Until just now though that "Thagomizer" was just a Larsonism from this farside cartoon

Mr. Gary Larsen: Pure comedic gold.

I assume that's where they got the name from.

I'm not sure I would allow the reach to stack - trolls are described as having disproportionately long arms, so their natural reach bonus is not solely due to their size.

It may not be pure size, but they are significantly taller then other races, not to mention weighing roughly 3x or more then other races easy. So, I suppose it is GM discretion, but I'd allow it. I mean the trolls are maybe sitting on the line on getting the extra reach, and so maybe the tail is an inch or two longer to tip the scale.

Regarding the Freaks sidebar, none of the tail modifications entail the penalties mentioned there.
Applying them nevertheless seems a bit harsh, as Thagomizer certainly is one of the weaker SURGE options.
10 BP for something requiring it's own Exotic Melee Weapon skill and doing STR/2+2 P, +1 Reach and being almost impossible to hide already is a bad deal, i see no reason to make it even worse for the player.

Racism certainly is an issue, as for any changeling, but i'd guess that SURGEd trolls get into the getting beaten up by hooded goons part of racial prejudice considerably less often, given their intimidating nature.
I certainly wouldn't stress this too much, even though the usual amount of more subtle prejudice than a baseball bat to the face would, of course, come up once in a while.

As far as the clothing cost is concerned, cutting a hole into a pair of pants shouldn't be that expensive, a 10% increase seems reasonable, probably 20, but more?
I don't think so.


Regarding the OP, i'd like to add that Dzoo Noo Quas get the usual trollish +1 Reach even for their bite attack.
So, even though i understand the reasoning behind restricting this benefit to limbs only, i don't think it applies ruleswise.

If we take this a little further, we get into even more reach modifiers, specifically the Elongated Limbs quality and being a sasabonsam or bear shifter on top of being a troll.
How to combine those with the Thagomizer quality is unclear by RAW, but besides that, they all seem to stack.
At least for Elongated Limbs, it is mentioned explicitly that it is cumulative with Reach modifiers from metatype.

Given the abstract nature of SR melee rules, it seems not unreasonable to assume a general stacking of all Reach modifiers.

In the most extreme cases, this could lead up to Reach +5.
With weapons such as claymores or monowhips.

A spiked tail seems relatively harmles compared to that, doesn't it?

I'd consider 10% kinda unreasonable unless we're talking about designer suits or something. Give me a decent pair of scissors and two minutes and I'll give you a hole in your clothing.


Note to self: Troll+tail+monowhip=happy town.

now imagine that troll doing capoeira O.o

Ha ha your so silly Shashlseele! Why would a troll put razors on his feet?

because kicks get a +1 reach also, and if he gets grip feet he can hold 2 monowhips with them too?
and of course, 'cause trolls wanna look pretty from time to time too, and replacing the nails once and for all with shiney colour-changing metal means never again having to go to get your feet done ^^

True, but showing skin is what beginner shadowrunners do, and I'm advanced beginner shadowrunner! = D

no you're not, you're a moving target is what you are! ^^
and even if i am a runner, i still hold on to my 2 free days per week and my time off to have fun <.< . .
if the GM starts messing with that, i start messing with stuff in general untill i go to sleep fully armed x.x

I am now imagining said troll do a much faster version of the laser dance from Ocean's 12.
I am now imagining a much more 'hip' troll busting out moves with combat break dancing.
Dammit, now they're doing dance-offs.
I think I am going to be hating the forums for a while.

I've actually thought about building the ultimate kicking machine, a fomori/bear shifter with Elongated Limbs, Satyr Legs and Claws, but then i realized that roundhousekicking straight through people's heads would make a terrible mess, so i postponed the idea until i find a way of instantly getting all the blood and gray matter from your feet.
Probably a hoverdrone with some household cleaning equipment...one should modify one of these household drones to clean up during runs anyway.

Heh, I just recently built a super-kicking machine. It wasn't even a troll; it was an elf changeling. And I didn't even completely max him out the way I could; but he had Satyr Legs and the whole nine. His kicks are stupidly powerful(he does, though, through things have a modified, legal, 13 strength). Ok, the fully super-twinked version I came up with at first I think hovered around 20P. I didn't use that one in the end. I almost felt bad. I settled for the 14P in the end, which means he still sends his claws through people's heads if he's angry. Ahh well, with power comes a price.


Actually, the whole thing with trolls and reach...they must get it due to their size and not their arms, since their kicks get reach too. Which actually sort of confused me; for example, trolls now are average...2.4 meters tall? An elf or ork around 2.1 meters(not unheard of when their average height is 1.9) probably has legs the same length as the troll; but they need Kick Attack to get the +1 reach. That does wash sort of weird. In addition, Elves, Humans, and Orks or whoever with the Metahuman Trait: Size changeling quality(allowing them to basically be the size of trolls), don't get the reach, period; even though they might well be around 2.4 meters at that point. Again, they need, technically, by the rules, kick attack for the legs, and their arms don't have it; again, leaning me toward the fact Trolls get it from their arms.

I mean, hypothetically, a changeling *should* get the reach if they have the quality of gigantism; I think if Robert Wadlow tried to punch or kick you he'd have reach, and he was a human.

Now I'm imagining Mark Dacascos's character from Only the Strong as a large leather-clad troll with a stegosaurus tail, rectangular plastic sunglasses, and an electric purple mohawk keeping troubled inner-city youth out of gangs by teaching them deadly martial arts.

You know, since Critter characters can get SURGE now, I'm somewhat torn between Centaur with spiked tail or Bear Shapeshifter artillery operator with spiked tail.

Wrong movie, but it really needs this song going as well.

even if they get their reach from their arms, doing capoeira will take care of that quite nicely i think ^^
best use of strong kicks though?
*looks to side into face of other character*"I AM THE LAW!"*kicks down door without taking eyes of other character*

He did come up with it first, but "Thagomizer" is, in fact, the official name. Scientists can have a sense of humor, after all.