Greets,
I was looking through sensors and I did not see any references to dark vision. Is there such a thing? We have low-light vision, but I am looking at active and passive IR light vision
-Chrysalis
Full Version: Seeing in the dark
Thermographic is what you are thinking of. It picks up infrared electromagnetic radiation (light), & transmits it to a visible image on your HUD.
check out thermographic.
while the same is more correctly used when showing different heat ranges with different colors, i suspect the writer had the common green/grey tint night vision googles in mind.
what i dont see however, so far, is some kind of UV vision system.
bah, ninja'd.
while the same is more correctly used when showing different heat ranges with different colors, i suspect the writer had the common green/grey tint night vision googles in mind.
what i dont see however, so far, is some kind of UV vision system.
bah, ninja'd.
QUOTE (Chrysalis @ Oct 25 2008, 10:51 PM) 
Greets,
I was looking through sensors and I did not see any references to dark vision. Is there such a thing? We have low-light vision, but I am looking at active and passive IR light vision
-Chrysalis
I was looking through sensors and I did not see any references to dark vision. Is there such a thing? We have low-light vision, but I am looking at active and passive IR light vision
-Chrysalis
The current portable FLIR systems use an Image Enhancer (what low-light device are actually called IRL) that is tuned to pick up the frequencies of IR radiation emitted by objects rather than using a cooled sensor to look for temperature variations. You can also add an IR diode for an active light source so you can read print, etc in the dark.
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Oct 26 2008, 08:59 AM)
The current portable FLIR systems use an Image Enhancer (what low-light device are actually called IRL) that is tuned to pick up the frequencies of IR radiation emitted by objects rather than using a cooled sensor to look for temperature variations. You can also add an IR diode for an active light source so you can read print, etc in the dark.
i think Chrysalis was looking for a ingame system...
still, interesting info about the real life workings tho
i would love to have cybereyes with a ir led, so that i could read at night without annoying anyone (and ninja up on them in complete darkness as well
)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 26 2008, 12:10 AM)
i think Chrysalis was looking for a ingame system...
still, interesting info about the real life workings tho
i would love to have cybereyes with a ir led, so that i could read at night without annoying anyone (and ninja up on them in complete darkness as well )
still, interesting info about the real life workings tho
i would love to have cybereyes with a ir led, so that i could read at night without annoying anyone (and ninja up on them in complete darkness as well
)Umm...as long as there is some variation in the temperatures of objects in the area, you can ninja up on them without the LED.
The thermographic vision mentioned in the books is more of the images you get with IR photography and not really the same as what you can get with FLIR. Actually FLIR seems to be more advanced than what you have in the books.
-Chrysalis
-Chrysalis
err, i told you to not get to hung up on the "thermographic" label, didnt i?
the writer probably either reused what the old books had called it, or grabbed the most well known label for infrared imaging (outside of the military/grognard circle)...
the writer probably either reused what the old books had called it, or grabbed the most well known label for infrared imaging (outside of the military/grognard circle)...
Personaly I've thoght alot about this, especialy about the natural thermografic vision of trolls and dwarves.
They can see the IR spectrum but how do they do it?
If they have dedicated receptors thermografic vision results being a thermosense that grant line of sight than it should be considered as a completely distinct sense and have no effest on normal vision; however rules state that termografic vision imposes visibility modifiers so obviously IR is part of normal vision for dwarves and trolls. Once we agreed on this point we find ourselves with some more questions that need an answer:
If the receptors are part of the eye (as suggested from the existence of "Troll's Eyes" bioware), most likely of the retina, how is avoided the character's own heat to interfere with the thermografic vision? Also, how do IR reach the retina? I meen IR can't go trough glass probably the eye's traparent materials won't let IR trough.
Not having found anything that explaines me how thermografic vision work, I've elaborated a theory of my own:
Dwarven and troll's eye have an outer layer which doesn't stop IR and has a bioelettric field that causes IR to jump to visible spectrum; this allowes dwarves and trolls to see heat as if it was light without breaking line of sight.
The studies on troll's eyes (especialy by japanacorps) has brought to the development of
1) "spettrum amplifiers" that are used for non-digital IR and Low-Light optics and various inner working if modern optical chips;
2) "thermo-neutral" materials to be used in optics that don't stop IR (normal glasses/shades should block IR, psychophipps your knowledge of the matter seeme to be greater than the mine, what you say?).
This would bring to two types of devices: digital and optical. Digital ones work much like those FLIR systems psychophipps told about, a sonsor and a display or AR; and for that IR diode the BBB has the flashlights that come in normal/low-light/thermal flavours, I can see goggles with a built-in micro-flashlight. For the optical ones I think I've alredy told what has to be told.
Other systems to see in darkness are ultrasound echolocalization. Ultrasound systems take advantage of nanotechnology and computer to render "map" of what is in front of you, giving visual information. Echolocalization (see Augmentations) is a completely different beast. Augmentations states that echolocalization plus wideband hearing and voice modulator can work as ultrasound system, but how do the brain perceves the information? Being auditory in nature I would say that doesn't allow to see just that something is there, so no line of sight for spellcasting, blindfire penality for shooting, etc.; also I would say that (despite what is written in Augmentations) echolocalization does not give any information about the shape (heck even bats use sight as primary sense when they can, to the point to collide on windows because they cant see the glass even if their "radar" tells 'em watch out") just direction, distance and size (and by size I meen big, little, not "i can hear that the girl hjas a height of..."), identification of what you are "looking" at should come from acustic clues:
Big, breathes, has a heartbeat, probably a troll; Small, breathes, has a somewhat fast heartbeat, light steppes, probably a child; Small, moving, buzz of an elettrical motor, probably a drone; More or less human-sized behind you, metallic clatter of weapon being readied, dreck hit the fan.
Yes I know I've gone a bit out of track but I thought that my arguments could be relevant about how someone can work in complete dark.
They can see the IR spectrum but how do they do it?
If they have dedicated receptors thermografic vision results being a thermosense that grant line of sight than it should be considered as a completely distinct sense and have no effest on normal vision; however rules state that termografic vision imposes visibility modifiers so obviously IR is part of normal vision for dwarves and trolls. Once we agreed on this point we find ourselves with some more questions that need an answer:
If the receptors are part of the eye (as suggested from the existence of "Troll's Eyes" bioware), most likely of the retina, how is avoided the character's own heat to interfere with the thermografic vision? Also, how do IR reach the retina? I meen IR can't go trough glass probably the eye's traparent materials won't let IR trough.
Not having found anything that explaines me how thermografic vision work, I've elaborated a theory of my own:
Dwarven and troll's eye have an outer layer which doesn't stop IR and has a bioelettric field that causes IR to jump to visible spectrum; this allowes dwarves and trolls to see heat as if it was light without breaking line of sight.
The studies on troll's eyes (especialy by japanacorps) has brought to the development of
1) "spettrum amplifiers" that are used for non-digital IR and Low-Light optics and various inner working if modern optical chips;
2) "thermo-neutral" materials to be used in optics that don't stop IR (normal glasses/shades should block IR, psychophipps your knowledge of the matter seeme to be greater than the mine, what you say?).
This would bring to two types of devices: digital and optical. Digital ones work much like those FLIR systems psychophipps told about, a sonsor and a display or AR; and for that IR diode the BBB has the flashlights that come in normal/low-light/thermal flavours, I can see goggles with a built-in micro-flashlight. For the optical ones I think I've alredy told what has to be told.
Other systems to see in darkness are ultrasound echolocalization. Ultrasound systems take advantage of nanotechnology and computer to render "map" of what is in front of you, giving visual information. Echolocalization (see Augmentations) is a completely different beast. Augmentations states that echolocalization plus wideband hearing and voice modulator can work as ultrasound system, but how do the brain perceves the information? Being auditory in nature I would say that doesn't allow to see just that something is there, so no line of sight for spellcasting, blindfire penality for shooting, etc.; also I would say that (despite what is written in Augmentations) echolocalization does not give any information about the shape (heck even bats use sight as primary sense when they can, to the point to collide on windows because they cant see the glass even if their "radar" tells 'em watch out") just direction, distance and size (and by size I meen big, little, not "i can hear that the girl hjas a height of..."), identification of what you are "looking" at should come from acustic clues:
Big, breathes, has a heartbeat, probably a troll; Small, breathes, has a somewhat fast heartbeat, light steppes, probably a child; Small, moving, buzz of an elettrical motor, probably a drone; More or less human-sized behind you, metallic clatter of weapon being readied, dreck hit the fan.
Yes I know I've gone a bit out of track but I thought that my arguments could be relevant about how someone can work in complete dark.
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 26 2008, 12:05 PM)
err, i told you to not get to hung up on the "thermographic" label, didnt i?
the writer probably either reused what the old books had called it, or grabbed the most well known label for infrared imaging (outside of the military/grognard circle)...
the writer probably either reused what the old books had called it, or grabbed the most well known label for infrared imaging (outside of the military/grognard circle)...
Grognard?
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