I'm looking through Arsenal and can't seem to find any reference to what a spare modular limb would cost. It's my understanding that the cost listed includes implantation, which for a modular limb would be the the UCCP (universal cyberware connection plug) and it's insertion, as well as the cost of the limb.

So if I replace my right hand with an obvious modular hand (Standard grade), that costs me 5,500 , 7,000 with a Handblade added. How much would a basic spare hand be, the one attached when we meet the Johnson in a high security, posh club?

Personally, I'd put it at 20% of the cost of the limb, so a replacement hand w/handblade would cost 2600 ((5500 x .2) + 1500).
My reasoning for this being, as used cyberware, that hand would cost 3725 ((5500 x .5)+1500), so a replacement hand should cost less than that, as you're not paying for the UCCP or implantation.

Anybody elses thoughts? Did I miss a page in my searching?

Cybernetic hand cost is in the books so just go with that and skip any implantation cost.

If you're talking about the cyberhand costs in SR4 and Arsenal, that includes the implantation costs, as I said in my first post. Do you have a page reference for one that doesn't?
As far as I know, the only entry that is just for just the cost of implantation is the 2k for an internal commlink; every other bio and cyberware entry covers both the cost of equipment and the surgery to put it in.

Theres optional rules in Aug for surgery and costs. Unless you are using those, there is no additional cost for implantation. If you are using those, then the hand would cost the book price, plus the listed amount to have it implanted.

I saw the table on p.122 of Augmentation, but the flat costs given feels like it's more geared to general care (healing damage boxes) than cost of an implant. I would rather something based of the nuyen cost or essence cost of the cyber. Modular limbs seem to be a fairly unique case in that they are designed to be swappable. It's the limb equivalent of of a gyro-mount/gun combo, and you don't have to buy the mount again with every new machine gun you attach (at most an accessory kit to lock it in).

Effectively, the modular limb costs, even ignoring sugery, include 2 pieces of ware, the limb itself and the mount (UCCP).
A cyberhand-drone (modular plugin) is only 3500, and that's a lot more complicated that just an extra hand, with none of the capacity used.

The feeling I'm getting is this isn't expicitly stated in the book, but could be covered by a simple errata added to the modular limb description saying something to the effect of "Spare modular limbs can be aquired at XX% of the cost of the implant, but have an availability X (or availability modifier of +X) if not bought at same time as the original limb."

Just use the base cost for the replacement.

If you want to look at additional costs for implantation surgery you need to look at both the table on p. 122 and the table on p. 127.

Also, you need to consider whether this is at chargen or during play. At chargen you normally don't bother with additional surgery costs for implants.

So you could end up with

Chargen Base Implant = Book cost
Chargen spare = Book cost

In Play Base Implant = Book Cost + Optional Surgery costs (p. 122, and p.127 tables)
In Play spare = Book cost (Since you aren't implanting the spare, simply swapping vie the modular option)

Or some other combination.

I looked at that too, but my problem with that is it includes the cost of the UCCP, which shouldn't need to buy again.

For now, I'll just leave it up to the GM, but I would like to have some official rule, or at least guidline, to go by. Who really wants to pay 110,000 for a spare (and empty) deltaware modular lower arm, that cost includes, at least, a UCCP they don't need?

You need the UCCP to attach the modular hand to your stump. It isn't normally a part of a Cyberhand, so has to be added to make the hand actually modular.

If you are swapping out between two left hands, both of those hands would need to have Modular Cyberlimb option and cost multiplier. A standard cyberhand doesn't come with the modular option.

Your adding a plug and socket, and then switching to another hand, it needs the plug/socket too.

Each modular hand needs a Tab A to insert into the arm stump's Slot B.

Hey, you said it first!

Am I just not being clear?

I install a modular right cyberhand at 5500 nuyen, paying for plug and socket (UCCP and modular hand).

I want an extra right hand so I can swap between the two. Why would I have to another 5500, when all I want is one side of connection?

I agree it has to be another modular hand, but I don't see why it's would be full price, when I don't need another UCCP. I've found nothing in Aug. that covers this, so I'm just going to try and convince my GM and wait for the errata, hoping it may have something.

You buy a modular right cyberhand for 5500 nuyen. Implantation costs 0 unless you are using the optional rules in augmentation.

You want to buy another modular right cyberhand... it will also cost 5500 nuyen. But, since they are modular, you can swap between the two of them without needing to go into surgery.

If you are using the optional rules, then implanting the first one will cost additional money above and beyond the 5500 nuyen.

Each part needs UCCP adaption. The stump of your arm and each and every modular hand that you want to attach to that arm. If you had two modular left hands, you would need UCCP plugs on both of them to facilitate attaching them to the UCCP receptacle on the end of your arm.

And really,gentlemen, 5500 is an incredible deal for the "Pleasure King"™ cyberhand with Silkskin™, vibrating fingers and lotion dispenser. Buy one for your partner and one for yourself ! On sale where ever fine cyber enhancements are sold.

*kanis ducks and covers*

Okay, this is where you and I see it differently. I see the UCCP being a permanent attachment to the stump, and therefore only needing to be paid for once. Yes the hand has to be able to plug into it, but the 5500 includes the piece attached to the stump too.
A drone hand is more complicated than a standard grade, all rating 3, empty hand, and it only costs 3500 and is already designed for the UCCP connection. That's why I can't see making a player pay another 5500 at chargen for a (spare) second hand, on top of all the costs for what goes into it.

damaleon, the text clearly states that if you want a cyberlimb to be modular, you must increase the availability by 1, and multiply the cost by 1.1. To me, reading the "drone hand" module, Aug, 46, "Drone Hand: This plug-in allows the cyberhand to detach and function as a small crawler drone (use the stats for the Aztechnology Crawler, p.342, SR4)." Doesn't say its an entirely separate hand. Rather, that it connects between the arm and the cyberhand, and makes it so that you can control the hand as a drone. It also has sensors and things.

So what I'm saying is you buy your modular hand, 5500. Then you buy your drone hand modification 3500. You now have one hand, which can be controlled remotely if you attach the drone hand Mod to your wrist.

We differ in our interpretation of the text then. The following quote comes from pages 45 and 46 of Aug (bolding is my emphasis):

The way I read that is the cyberhand drone is a total replacement of the hand. It acts like a normal hand when attached but lacks some of the sensory feedback and finesse that a normal modular hand would have. It also cannot be customized to increase it to the character's or NPC's attributes (hence the reduced feedback and finesse).

When I read the bolded areas, while far from explicit, leans towards a separate attachment. Admittedly, it hinges on the use of the word "of" instead of "in"; "takes up the space of just" implies replacing (to me) where "takes up the space in" would be a mod and additional cost (again, to me).

If it was a modification of an existing cyberhand, like all standard cyberlimb accessories, why aren't items like the medkit, utility kit, welding laser, and nail pistol just listed under "Cyberlimb Accessories" and given a capacity? And if they are modifcations to a limb, why do they have to lose functionality (though on some that would be a feature instead of a loss, who would want to feel the impact of the jackhammer every time?).

Looking at the description of the drone hand, it says to use the Aztechnology Crawler from SR4, which is 1,700. I can see 3,500 to be able hide it fairly well from inspection, but at 9,000 (more than 5x the drone cost), it's a lot harder to justify at chargen.

I imagine we could sit here and argue about it for quite a while. Unless Synner or one of the writers cares to settle it, I'll just go with the 40% reduction for a spare hand my GM and I settled on, and that if I go with an alphaware modular limb, all spare limbs have to be alphaware. There is a good deal left up to the player and GM to decide on, which I like, but I do hope they add a sentence to cover some of this.

The drone hand module goes into your wrist, where the cyberhand would normally go. As the drone hand description says, it allows for the cyberhand (you know, the one you just replaced with it) to be remote controlled.

Actually the only mention is that the wrist is where the antennae and sensors go, not that everything goes there. And again, if they just took up space in a modular limb, why not just give them a capacity and require the limb they go into has to be modular?

I see the cost listed (standard limb cost x 1.1) as including the piece of cyber that goes on the stump as well as the hand and all the modifications that allow the two to plug into each other, as the piece going on the stump has no cost of it's own (and doesn't get removed when you change limbs). A modular limb is not going to do you an good, no matter what you do to it, if the body has nothing there for it to plug into and function. Unless they add a piece of cyberware listed as UCCP to go on the stump, I can't think of anything what will convince me otherwise. I found nothing in the QA or errata threads that changes my mind about that. I posted to see if others had run into this and how have handled it and if anyone found something specificly stating it in the books.

I'm not going to turn this in to pages of back and for that goes nowhere. I have what I need (an agreement with my GM) and this thread has served it's purpose for me (seeing if anyone had page references I'd missed or experiences of there own). I'm not going to change the way you see it, and your not going to affect my view of it.