Hello Shadowrun Gurus

I have a couple of questions regarding Spirits and Abilities namely do they have to be Materialized in order to use any of their Abilities like Accident/Confusion/Influence etc?

If not, can they use their powers while manifested?

Additionally (I know this is probably the whim/option of the SL but:) could a Materialized spirit be used for a mount (and eh… “lovers�).

You can only interact with the same plane as you exist on. An unManifested spirit exists solely on the Astral Plane, and thus cannot affect the material plane. A Manifested spirit can effect both planes as they are dual natured. Additionally, spells and powers of a physcial type (they say Type: P in their stat line) have no affect in astral space, and so cannot be used astrally. Only mana spells and powers can be used astrally.

Finally, Manifested spirits take up physical space (I guess they have a Mass of some form) and therefore can carry items (look at the fiction and the fact that it mentions that spirits can pick up and wield weapons). They could therefore theoretically be used as mounts, though some would be better suited for it over others. In the end, that is a GM call.

Spirits don't have to be Materialised to use their powers, but in most cases they would need to be to use them usefully as you can't affect things from one plane (the Astral) on another plane (the Physical). This is under the Powers section on pg. 286 of your BBB. Manifesting does not count as being on the same plane so can't be used for applying powers on people.

They certainly can and do use their powers while Manifested.

As to whether materialized spirits can be used for a mount, they could be, according to their strength. I tend to describe spirits with plenty of atmospheric detail, so it would depend on the type and form of spirit you conjured. For example, a beast spirit that took a large, quadrapedal form, I would allow a character to climb on board (though the spirit might or might not like that). A fire elemental that looked like a flaming man... well it might be able to piggy back you, but you'll look pretty funny. You'll have to base it off the strength of the materialised form anyway.

As to a spiritual lover. Yes, there's a long tradition of this in Shadowrun. More magicians have chosen the Ally Spirit metamagic for this reason than for any other. Check out how many allies have a sexy human form for "blending in". Even regular spirits could be interesting lovers, though it really depends what form they take (see previous example of Beast spirit - eww!). Also, who says they have to materialise - if you're a magician you can almost certainly astrally project and do it at "their place." Astral sex should be a pretty intense experience.

But please consult your GM as to whether having sex with a summoned spirit counts as treating them well or treating them badly. The GM may ask you to make some rolls.

This is pretty much correct ... if you exchange every occurance of the word 'Manifest' with the word 'Materialize'.

Is it beastiality if you're having sex with a sentient nonhuman?

For that matter, if a shedim possessed a corpse (let's say newly dead to minimize the yuck factor), would that be necrophilia?

These two points have been debated endlessly before, especially in fantasy games where intelligent undead/beasts and even undead/beastial PC's aren't too uncommon. I'd love to hear the Dumpshock take on it all

[Edit:] Minor clarification

I scoff at your verbage and choose my own. I meant Materialize. I'm a M-O-R-O-N

My take (much like real life), I don't care what you do behind closed doors, as long as I am not an active participant. Once I become an active participant, we'll discuss it. Until that time, enjoy your kink, I'll enjoy mine.

Although the RAW says that you can only affect targets on the same plane I would still say that powers used on themselves affects both planes. A good example of this is:

Concealment (on itself and friends)

If concealment only worked on the plane the spirit was on the only VERY secure plane to be on would be the astral since they would dissapear from view and from the astral unless a successful perception test is made.

Bestiality is defined as sex with anything of a different species to you. But much like computers made people re-evaluate what it meant to "think" and submarines make the word "swim" no longer cover all moving through water scenarios, the arrival of sapient, living non-human creatures makes traditional definitions open to reflection. Technically it is bestiality if you were to have sex with, oh I don't know, nagas, hell hounds, dragons, etc. But say the dragon shapeshifts into a human form. Is it still bestiality then? What defines a species? What it was or what magic has just transformed it into? If having sex with a dragon when it has a fully human biology isn't bestiality, then having sex with your partner when he was transformed into a horse would be bestiality. Even though it's your husband! But with spirits, it could be a moot point if they aren't actually biological creatures. In that case, it wouldn't be bestiality because they don't have a species. It would be some sort of (I'm sure someone here knows the word and will supply it) sex with an object. Your shaman might consider a spirit a living being, but your chaos magician might regard it as a mental construct and the law in your country as something else again. Even if they are living beings, can they really be said to have a species at all? They're all unique. And if you have sex on the Astral plane, is it even technically sex? What if one astral traveller assaults another astral traveller? Could the latter secure a conviction when their physical bodies weren't involved. Similar cases might occur with the Matrix and virtual reality.

Leaving aside all the issues of bestiality, there is the question of consent. If a spirit is a living being, then how old is it? And if it's bound to grant you a service and you use that service for, ah, well.... is that consensual? If you ask a shaman who has honoured and praised that spirit and asked humbly for its favour, then it probably is consensual. If you ask a hermetic who has abjured and bound a spirit with the ancient names and rites, then it certainly now looks very much non-consensual. Oh, I can see the court case on this one when Lone Star burst in on the hermetic mage's hotel room and arrest him for having sex with his two-year old ally spirit.



I think here we are on safer ground. You are having sex with a corpse. Just because you enlist the aid of some being to jiggle it around a bit while your doing so and make it look more life-like, doesn't mean the basic facts have changed.

This is SR2070. Better specify passive participant, too.

Good point. We'll just change it to participant.

And if you summoned the spirit of your dead wife to inhabit you dead wife’s body and have sex with it. Is it still Necrophilia or in fact something … Beautiful!



Oh!! and thanks for clearing all this up for me..

I was going to make a Satyr Mage(summoner) who summoned Spirits with Greek/Roman Mythology theme.. With "Amazon/Myrmadon/Minotaur/Centaurs etc.." Guardian Spirits
"Triton, Water Nymph, Sirens etc.." Water spirits
"Kerberos, Manticore, Pegasus etc.." Beast spirits (Pegasus might be better off as a Air spirit)
"Harpy, Birds of Ares etc.." Air Spirits
and "Nymph, Cyclops etc.." Task Spirits

Beeing a Satyr and all I choosed to have a Mild Sex addiction. And you know when all else fail why not summan a professional (task spirit)...

Have you read the introductory fiction to the magical threads chapter in Street Magic?




Note that, by RAW, sex is explicitly disallowed as an addiction (not that it is perfectly legal to choose a Mild Addiction to betel, which has absolutely no negative effect in game, but well...).
If i where your GM, i'd suggest either a homebrewed variant of the Poor Self Control flaw from Runner's Companion or choosing the Seductress mentor spirit or something like that.

The authors must be friends of David Duchovny, or something.

Peter

In the Sex-Positive and BDSM communities, that concept has its own acronym: YKINMKBYKIOK (you kink is not my kink, but your kink is ok). Kinda reminds me of ASCWINWOTYTSD (ten points to the first person to know what that one means!)

"A Sucking Chest Wound is Nature's Way Of Telling You To Slow Down."

Ten points to Fortune! My favorite acronym *sociopathic grin*

I'm notifying the Spirit Protection Service...

As an aside, SPS has some interesting existing meanings ...

Keep in mind, while a spirit has to be in the material plane to use a power on you, they can sustain it in the astral plane. So your air spirit can pop into the material plane, use concealment on your team, then sustain it safely in the astral while you go about your sneaky buissness.