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Neraph
I was searching for a previous thread where this subject was brought up, but my Search-Fu failed.

I talked about Improved Invisibiltiy allowing vampires to walk around and not take damage from the Sun, as the light bends around them. Some interesting rebuttles were made. However, I finally found the best source for walking around without Burning Death™:

Alleviate Allergy.

Casting this spell would be able to reduce your Severe Allergy to a Mild Allergy, allowing your infected to safely walk down the street to the corner Stuffer Shack and buy whatever he wants in full daylight. The only drawback would be the hefty -4 dicepool penalty to everything (-2 Sustaining, -2 Allergy).
Wanderer
QUOTE (Neraph @ Dec 8 2008, 06:43 PM) *
I was searching for a previous thread where this subject was brought up, but my Search-Fu failed.

I talked about Improved Invisibiltiy allowing vampires to walk around and not take damage from the Sun, as the light bends around them. Some interesting rebuttles were made. However, I finally found the best source for walking around without Burning Death™:

Alleviate Allergy.

Casting this spell would be able to reduce your Severe Allergy to a Mild Allergy, allowing your infected to safely walk down the street to the corner Stuffer Shack and buy whatever he wants in full daylight. The only drawback would be the hefty -4 dicepool penalty to everything (-2 Sustaining, -2 Allergy).


And know we eventually know how that Dracula guy was able to walk in daylight in that old Coppola trid. grinbig.gif
TheOOB
It's an entirely valid strategy, and a good reason to tote around a sustaining focus(watch out for focus addition natch), but remember regeneration doesn't function while in the presence of your allergen.

I tend to treat vampires as nocturnal though, they just get tired during the day.
Muspellsheimr
I have known & used this for a while, as have others. Further, there is no reason not to use Alleviate Allergy to remove your allergy for the duration - which can also be used with a Force 3 Sustaining Focus.
St Guardian
Okay, on the subject of allergies I want some help with this. My medic nicknames "Bones" (don't give me crap about it) got hit by a HMHVV 2 dart that changed him into a Loup-Garou. First words out of my mouth was "thank you" because he's dual nature now and makes a better medic. Upon more research, HE EVEN WORSE OFF THAN BEFORE! Can't touch a human, has three allergies that are moderate and my GM loves to use allergies to EVERY single chance he get's.

So, I was thinking I could at least cover up and would take less of a dice pool. I was told that is not true, there is no real way to take away my dice pool. Is this true? Their has to be a way to at least to make the extreme of the allergy down to mild for at least less effect. Sorry, forgot to specify which allergy I want help with. That would be the sunlight. As far as I know I just avoid wolfs bane, wear a chemically sealed suit with a gas mask, and do the best I can to have my character find out when his "period" occurs. I know it's a set time but can be changed by a pack. My GM allowed me to have him non-feral which I was greatful for.

Now before anyone takes this the wrong way, I am seeing this as an opportunity to explore magic a very little bit and a way to make myself more flexible in rping. But I don't know much, I'm still a newbie and need your help and suggestions. This is my first character and I am, thus far, the second longest lasting character in our group of people. I want to keep him and keep going but the medic purpose would go away in a group of humans. oh, I was also informed that I could take a 30% additional if I don't want to hurt "innocent" people. I know the comment is going to be, "but their isn't any innocent people in shadowrun". We found that is completely false when he killed a farmer doing his job.

Okay, if anyone has any suggestions they have found out what works with the Loup-Garou and how they played it. For future, I do plan to get asensing ability and hand-to-hand combat with my 28 karma from two separate missions. I figured I better get those two that way I have more ways to attack and see differently.

If you have any suggestions about Loup-Garou, please leave them behind. Saying, "Don't pick them" is obvious when it comes to the infected and I didn't have a choice. Just gotta remember, a chance to grow and learn. Now I just need either where to find information, aka books, on how to deal with him better. And the obvious answer for sun allergy is to stick to night, i know but I'm doing this in case my group doesn't want night missions.

Love and peace,
SG
tsuyoshikentsu
Alleviate. Allergy.

Seriously, read the thread.
Jaid
isn't there also a drug that has the same effect of dealing with allergies?
St Guardian
My character is only dual nature now. He is NOT a magic user at all before now. I would have to spend at least 40 karma or more in order to get training for mage JUST to use that. I read the thread, the guy is a magic user. My character isn't. Besides, now he has 1.8 essence left. Sorry to say Tsuyoshikentsu, your suggestion won't work.

Now a drug, that is something I can work with. of course my GM would make me pay twice the amount for it but I'll take care of that if that drug exists. Thanks for the suggestion to look for that Jaid.

Love and peace,
SG
Neraph
There's a drug in Arsenal that allows you to ignore the penalties of an allergy, but the damaging effects still apply.

It should also be noted that unless your GM is uber-cool, you cannot buy the Magician/Mystic Adept/Adept/Technomancer qualities in-game. Those specifically must be bought in chargen. The only way to gain them after the fact is by taking Latent Awakening, Latent Emergence (I think it's called), or being Infected by certain types that specifically state they give you qualities of that sort, such as Wendigo. Otherwise, you're out of edge (drum roll).
tsuyoshikentsu
QUOTE (Neraph @ May 18 2009, 09:01 AM) *
It should also be noted that unless your GM is uber-cool, you cannot buy the Magician/Mystic Adept/Adept/Technomancer qualities in-game. Those specifically must be bought in chargen. The only way to gain them after the fact is by taking Latent Awakening, Latent Emergence (I think it's called), or being Infected by certain types that specifically state they give you qualities of that sort, such as Wendigo. Otherwise, you're out of edge (drum roll).

So what?
St Guardian
My Gm will allow me to do this but I pay double karma cost in order to get it along with spells. I asked this when I was thinking of doing a Latent Awakening. He also informed me after the Run was over with that I could do that also. I'll look in arsenal for that, thanks. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

But when it comes to my GM, he wants us to be flexible as he is. He is willing to "give us" a weapon that isn't made from the corebooks that are from other sources if we can explain how to build it AND what parts are needed. I got the caster gun from Outlaw Star because of that.

Tsuyoshikentsu, GM has complete control and is completely up to him if he wants to do anything at all.

Love and peace,
SG
Kerenshara
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 18 2009, 11:04 AM) *
My character is only dual nature now. He is NOT a magic user at all before now. I would have to spend at least 40 karma or more in order to get training for mage JUST to use that. I read the thread, the guy is a magic user. My character isn't. Besides, now he has 1.8 essence left. Sorry to say Tsuyoshikentsu, your suggestion won't work.

Now a drug, that is something I can work with. of course my GM would make me pay twice the amount for it but I'll take care of that if that drug exists. Thanks for the suggestion to look for that Jaid.

Love and peace,
SG

Ok, couple of things you can do if you're serious, and it would behoove you to at least look into this because like it or not, your character is irretrieveably changed by that dart. HIS best option to recover his life is going to be magic. Your maximum Magic attribute is 1, but that means you can still initiate. It's expensive, but the absolute magic score is still low so that should balance out Karma wise, and you will have accesss eventually to a LOT of initiate powers. Otherwise, that was effectively a "mortal wound" since the character becomes nigh-unplayable. I'd be pretty bitter if a GM did that to me. Especially as a fragging "dart". If I get it honestly through combat or somehting with a infected creature, that's one thing, but a dart??
*shakes head sadly*
Some of the infected strains are quite playable (baseline Vampire for example) as a PC, but the ones with contact transmission and allergies out the wazoo ... that's something as a GM I would fudge the die roll to keep the character playable. Especially if I knew (as a "good" GM should) what your existing essence rating was.
As to adding an "awakened" quality in game, most of the HMWVV (or whatever the acronym is) strains allow a literal "excuse" to pick up the quality, by the RAW.
In any case, good luck with whatever you choose to do.
St Guardian
Yes, I am VERY serious on keeping this character alive and active so I gotta work with it somehow. I was also very pissed off the fact that I got the dart and didn't know what it was until 6 rolls told me it was a very serious virus. Then I fell into a coma, yay. Now just a background info here on my GM. He was doing party wipes aka complete kill off for over 20 missions on every single mission. This is also a guy who LOVES to play dragons and toy with his players. He made me roll to see if I would not change with 5 dice for about 3 times before I caught on he was messing with me.

He did ask for my essence when I got infected to choose what I was going to get. Before I recounted my body mods, I had 1.75 essence. Then upon recount I got 2.80 essence which was knocked down to 1.80. So magic for me really isn't going to be much option and really going to suck since I really don't have much magic I can do. So right now, magic is secondary till I get enough karma and money. But he did give me automatically Dual Nature ability so I can at least asense things which resolved the problem of checking bodies for pulse.

When it comes to why he chose a dart is because we fought a high security Yakuza semi-boss, bypassing the security part. BTW, in a crowded room, molotov's rock! Took them out when they covered the semi-boss in a corner with three shots. It was funny and awesome at the same time.

Also I made him promise me that we would do everything we can to keep this character alive. I forgot to include playable in that promise. And I know, he doesn't have to keep the promise or anything of the sort. But I hope he does.

Well, if you have any other suggestions on how to work with the lovely HMWVV and the allergies I have now, please tell me.

Love and peace,
SG
Rasumichin
I'd second using an allergy-supressing medication.
The mentioned chemical is Zero, to be found on p. 78 of Arsenal.
It should be very easy for your character to come across this substance- it is the standard to supress rejection of cybernetic implants, so every medic should have at least a small supply of it at hand and if you have a legitimate medical license, it will be possible to order it legally over the matrix (i wouldn't overdo this, though- Zero is also used by addicts to decrease built-up tolerance to their mindbender of choice, so ordering massive amounts may make the narcs suspicious wether your character is doing a little ilicit business on the side and once the coppers start investigating that, they might slap him with a criminal SIN because of the infection and/or find out about his shadworunning activity).
Scoring Zero illegally should be a cakewalk, too, as it has only a 2R availability at a cost of 100 :nuyen: per dose.

The drawback of that approach is that Zero also makes the character more susceptible to diseases and toxins, though.
But i figure it's better than having to deal with the Allergy penalties.

Another option would be to let someone else in the team learn the alleviate allergy spell and sustain it on your character, using either a sustaining focus or a spirit of man with that spell as an optional power for that purpose- which could, however, become quite expensive if one of your teammates is willing to spend that amount of karma just to help you out in the first place.


As far as the infection itself is concerned...well, i'd rather not comment on this, but it just sounds like an incredibly stupid thing to do for your GM.
Why would someone who's job it is to protect someone from an immediate assault pack an agent in his dartgun that takes effect with a delay of 1 hour?
Makes no sense at all.
As a particularly cruel form of revenge, i would have understood this and would have said "well, it's a tough world, shit happens when you step on the wrong people's toes".
As a consequence of spending too much time in an area infested by loup garou and fomôraig or a direct confrontation with them, it wouldn't be a problem for me either.
But..finding a retroviral agent in a gun carried by a bodyguard, obviously just for the sake of screwing over a character without any remotely plausible ingame explanation...that's just plain retarded through and through.
St Guardian
Trust me, we had a spirit, a technomancer, a medic, and another infected look through all the bodies. They didn't find an antidote with the comment followed by "It's the Yakuza, do you think they care about having someone infected" but you bring up a point there. If they are protecting someone, wouldn't they have an antidote at least for the semi-boss.

I know the only problem with medication is that anyone can be addicted to it. At this point, I don't think I really care since I'm hoping it takes it down even if I'm addicted. He's easy going when it comes to addictions as long as we RP it well.

I got a left arm with a slot and thinking of having that operated on to include an auto-injector. That way, I'll have it automatically before a fight and boom, lower allergies. Also, since I don't have a high allergy, I'm perfectly fine. This is a nearly perfect drug. Thanks!

My comment from my GM is that he loves to use the Infected. It keeps us on our toes. Thankfully, he hasn't put us up against any actual Infected but from the way things are going, I guess I'm going to be a KEY part of the game at some point. Besides, some of the stuff he does to others is funny but at the same time kind of messed up. An elf trying to get info from an Ork's bar about a loved one. Yeah, that is umm, yeah.

But I have dealt with A LOT worse GM's where they cannot even get us to ban together. Half of the time, we were going our seperate ways but now it's a different story with that mission. Worked together, make it funny, but also at the same time shadowrunner's.

I'm learning some magic from the Free Spirit after I convince it to teach me it. BTW, the Free Spirit is a player that comes off work mid-game.

Anyways, thanks a lot for the information. I'm going to use this to my advantage along with the other suggestions I got in PM. Thanks a lot, your helping out me defeating the nearly impossible.

Love and peace,
SG
Meatbag
Sounds like you've got a pretty brutal GM, and you should reply with equal twinkery.

Does the party have a Mage? Can he summon Spirits of Man? If so, make sure he learns Alleviate Allergy in the near future.

A Spirit of Man can take any one spell the caster knows as an Innate Spell.

Have him loan you one Service: continuous use of a power, Alleviate Allergy.

Done and done.
GreyBrother
Long-Term-Binding comes to mind.
Ryu
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 19 2009, 06:38 AM) *
Trust me, we had a spirit, a technomancer, a medic, and another infected look through all the bodies. They didn't find an antidote with the comment followed by "It's the Yakuza, do you think they care about having someone infected" but you bring up a point there. If they are protecting someone, wouldn't they have an antidote at least for the semi-boss.

No, they wouldn´t care about infections. (Think about it.) One must admit that making people into Loup Garou is perfect if you want to mess somebody up (only weaknesses, no real advantage; yes, dual natured is bad), but Yaks prefer the "kill you 7 times before you hit the ground" routine.

QUOTE
I know the only problem with medication is that anyone can be addicted to it. At this point, I don't think I really care since I'm hoping it takes it down even if I'm addicted. He's easy going when it comes to addictions as long as we RP it well.

If you are serious about playing the character on, RP the allergies instead. Make him nocturnal, and don´t address the other weaknesses. (Don´t forget that astral barriers are now a serious problem.) You having fun with being a Loup Garou is the responsibility of your GM. Remind him of that, and play the part you were granted.
St Guardian
Come on people, he's not all that evil. Being infected maybe a instant death for my character's medic profession if every team member was human. We have an elf, a dwarf, a human, a free spirit and shifter. I highly doubt there will need to be much problem. besides, the shifter is also a medic, not as good, but still a medic. Besides, he's learning not to mess around with us too much because some of us are still learning.

I'll have the first day of being an infected a sucky one for my character but he'll learn after the first day. He'll go without food for a bit before preying on one of the team-mates. I already talked to the GM about that. He approved it if I can pull it off. Thanks for the advice of being a night-stalker. Would make missions easier and infiltrate easier knowing this.

So how is dual nature bad? Does it take dice away or aren't you able to add some because you can see their spirit through thick brush. And since he's dual nature, is there a way to "train" to not look at both planes at once?

I forgot about barriars, we really didn't run across those lately. I have a feeling we will soon though. He has plans for something but we'll have the free spirit with us on most occasions.

If you read this character's backstory, you would understand my GM chose Loup-Garou. I'll spare you most of the info but he thinks anyone that is doing his/her job without crossing anyone's lines is innocent. So you think about it, sometime he's going to eat an innocent.

Love and peace,
SG
Meatbag
Dual-Natured has its advantages, but it's not without serious downsides - like bouncing off wards and suddenly having to deal with Astral threats that would've otherwise passed you by.

Spirits forbid some sadistic wagemage starts setting up wards in elevator shafts....
St Guardian
I thought every mage has wards that they can bounce off of or can they take them down? Also, could you give me an example of astral threat?

I was told by my GM that having the Dual Nature has a lot of vantages and very few downsides. He's the one who doesn't like to mess around with magic too much because it's kind of broken. There is some magic he forbid anyone having before the updated info popped up where they did a lot more feedback for the mage. I forgot what those are called but he likes to read and use the new rules/patched rules in his games.

I think I might be able to pull of a medic mage becuase of the infections but it's going to be really hard when our team decides to do daytime missions. I guess that's where I'm gonna hang up on them if they call during the day. Now how common is Wolfsbane? Do only high paying people have it or just set in forest area?

I only have access to some books right now without my computer, so if you know what books to refer, tell me so I know where to look when i'm at my computer.

Love and peace,
SG
Zaranthan
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 19 2009, 12:07 PM) *
So how is dual nature bad? Does it take dice away or aren't you able to add some because you can see their spirit through thick brush. And since he's dual nature, is there a way to "train" to not look at both planes at once?

One of the big advantages of being dual-natured is that you're passively aware of both planes at all times, and don't take distraction penalties for it.

Although astral perception isn't quite sight, it still follows similar rules. Someone hiding behind bushes will have the same concealment from the bush's astral shadows. While you can easily notice someone hiding in mere darkness, you can't shoot at an astral form (and if you do sink karma into spellcasting, you can't cast spells at an astral shadow). So it helps, but you still need low-light vision and whatnot.
Kerenshara
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 19 2009, 11:07 AM) *
Come on people, he's not all that evil.

I'm not going to date myself by saying how long I've been doing this, since I already admitted to happily passing my own cash money across the counter for the first printing of this game, but let's say I have seen a LOT in this comminuty at large. OK, maybe not evil, but edging up against "sadistic" and certainly brutal. We may all joke about "breaking" players, but mainly we're referring to shaking up their complacency. Something like HMHVV infection isn't something to pull out of a hip holster and snap off casually. If you're going to do it, it had better be part of a VITAL plot element, and a good GM will go to the player beforehand and tell them what they have in mind. Receiving informed consent means that the player is going to work WITH you to make the plot twist even more effective than if they are resentful and resistant. I have had things like this done to me, but always with a GM's warning and I gave my consent. Think, for example, that your characters were captured at the end of the last session. The GM wants something really horrific to drive home how powerless the party is, so he goes to the player of one of the female PCs and explains what he has in mind. The player can either choose to accept the challenge being offered (there's a psychology to this: it's a challenge offered, not a punishment imposed) or decline. So if they accept, the characters are powerless to help when at the start of the next session, the PC is brutally raped by the guards. The follow-up to that can be very powerful, so long as Stahlseele isn't the only other person present *wink*. Some people would label that "angsty", but I prefer to see it as character building, especially if the player is on-board with the GM. And a VERY good GM will reward/compensate the character somehow down the line.

QUOTE
I'll have the first day of being an infected a sucky one for my character but he'll learn after the first day. He'll go without food for a bit before preying on one of the team-mates. I already talked to the GM about that. He approved it if I can pull it off. Thanks for the advice of being a night-stalker. Would make missions easier and infiltrate easier knowing this.

Like that's not going to cause some "angst" in the party! *laughs*

QUOTE
So how is dual nature bad? Does it take dice away or aren't you able to add some because you can see their spirit through thick brush. And since he's dual nature, is there a way to "train" to not look at both planes at once?

I would need to go brush up myself on if a dual-natured being can turn OFF astral perception, but if the answer is no (and I don't think it is) forget using any for or AR/VR... ever. For more info, slot the BBB and read up about Astral Perception, it will give you what you neeed.

QUOTE
I forgot about barriars, we really didn't run across those lately. I have a feeling we will soon though. He has plans for something but we'll have the free spirit with us on most occasions.

Yeah, these are your big drawbacks. You need to make a test to pass through an astraly warded space a mundane could saunter right through, and with your (currently) extremely low Magic score, you're not going to be able to do it. Think walking into an invisible wall and bouncing, wondering what the heck?! On the other hand, if you can't turn OFF your astral perception, all you'll see is a solid glowing wall before you walk right into it. The rest of the TEAM will see you bounce off thin air. And if it's an offensive mana barrier, get seriously hurt doing it. Your comment about "I have a feeling we will soon though" tells the old hands amongst us an awful lot.

QUOTE
If you read this character's backstory, you would understand my GM chose Loup-Garou. I'll spare you most of the info but he thinks anyone that is doing his/her job without crossing anyone's lines is innocent. So you think about it, sometime he's going to eat an innocent.

Love and peace,
SG

His attitude is ... not one I would play with more than once. "You're a big boy so you can take whatever I decide to dish out." Yeah. Think about that for a minute. This is supposed to be a group endeavor for everybody to have fun, not a test of Manhood or a Klingon Gauntlet. It's not supposed to be a cake walk, and the challenges should be commensurate with the player's abilities, but being told "grow up, walk it off, stop whining" combined with the kill numbers this person racks up paints a pretty dim picture. Good luck to you. I fear you're going to need it.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 19 2009, 05:07 PM) *
Being infected maybe a instant death for my character's medic profession if every team member was human. We have an elf, a dwarf, a human, a free spirit and shifter. I highly doubt there will need to be much problem.


The elf and the dwarf could become carriers for HMHVV II if you come into direct contact with them, so you'd better avoid that.

As far as the medic profession is concerned, get yourself one of those Evo Orderly walker drones (basically a wheelchair on legs with mechanical arms and a built-in medkit) and treat people remotely.
Get yourself a hazmat suite.

If your game is downtime-heavy and your GM appreciates initiative on your part, your character could also work with a community of other Infected and help them with their various medical conditions, specific 'ware requirements (cybereyes and biosculpting for ghouls etc) and so forth.
Many doctors view the Infected as walking biohazards which makes it problematic for them to find qualified medical assistance, so you could get some usefull connections when you help them out with installing cyberware and the like.




Regarding your dual nature, there are a couple of problems :

First of all, wards become a real obstacle.
Being always astrally active means that an eventual ward will always be in the way.
Even if you manage to break through the ward, it will immediately and unavoidably alarm the mage who set it up.
The only way around this would be to assense the ward's creator and mimic his aura using the Masking metamagic.

Another potential problem is vulnerability to astral attacks.
A projecting mage can just hover out of your reach and zap you with mana spells.
As projecting mages are hellishly fast and mobile, it takes great effort to avoid them.
Make sure that you have someone with you who can protect you from such attacks.
If your character is allowed to learn magic, learn how to defend yourself on the astral.

Then there's also bacteria and virii which are active on the astral plane exclusively.
They can be found in the disease chapter of Augmentation (and some probably in the manatech section of Arsenal, IIRC) and are a pain in the ass if you can't turn off your astral presence.
Keep in mind that Ares' use of FAB III bacteria wiped out Chicago's ghoul population almost completely.

Moreover, hostile spirits can attack you without materializing.
So there will be a lot fewer team members present who can aid you in combat against them.
Watch out.
St Guardian
so that's what they meant by a mage having it harder than most. Didn't think mages could actually have that much against them. I guess that's why they are somewhat balanced out in the game itself. So now the question is, once your infected, can you give your disease to other characters via astral plane? I don't know about mine becuase my GM is still looking into how easily you can transfer it but I'm wondering as in all the infected.

Thanks for the suggestion of working on the infected. I guess I could get my fixer to a look for a group or individuals for that. That way I can get my robot faster. Does the virus also effect me selling the 6 Ares submachine guns I got from an introduction of the shifter? Or should I pretty much consider those mine and only sell to other infected.

I didn't know others could be a carrier, I guess being infected is really frelling hard to pull off unless your smart. THANKFULLY everyone has informed me how to pull it off. Now I just gotta find out the cost and whatnot through books. Thank you very much for pointing me to the book where you got the info. I'll look for the masking magic or even a way to hide my aura. I'm guessing those spells are in Street magic, yes?

When it comes to the astral plane, is there any real cover to speak of or are you pretty much out in the open 24/7? I want to know this in case my GM decides to wake me up in the astral plane via a dragon. I know spells are able to go through objects but you have to see them. hopefully the astral plane can have some cover without using magic.

I remember that being astral means your kind of bright but there is an attribute that can get rid of that. Y'know what, this I gotta ask. When you become infected after character creation, do you get the option to add on skills/abilities/etc. that you are able to do during character creation?

Thanks for answering my question, most of the answers tell me how to handle the allergies rather well and maybe make this character playable. Thank you very much!

Love and peace,
SG

Screaming Eagle
Since you have only "just" become dual natured you may have an argument to purchace "Astral Chameleon" which makes it harder to assence you, 2 dice penalty, it SAYS just Mages etc. but seriously. You will still be kinda glowing but "blend in" better. you not really getting full use of it as you don't leave signatures but your call. Since you are dual natured you use Physical combat skills (unarmed usually) in astral combat.
You are dual natured 24/7 - 365 for the next 7000 years (assuming thats the length of the cycles of mana, I think thats about it).
Options for sleeping: natural earth (Gaia) is a barrier in astal space, many para-critters favour caves, twisty caves with low ceilings, the projected mage has less edge on you in combat, there is alos a wide array of dual natured plants that bar passage of astal forms to a varying degree - take up botony and discuss possiblities with the GM. They range from slowing him down so you can catch him before he 1000 km/hour off to eating his SOUL!... essence... whatever...

I don't beleive you can transmit any of the HMHVV stains over the astral plane, no referance just a gut feeling and vague memory that it is a body fluid borne illness - astral forms are purely psyhic. Most of the awakened diseases seem to require physical contact for transmission. Thankfully... the other reason that comes to mind is all it would take is one Ghoul/Vampire/Whatever magician projecting and desiding to infect a few choise people... I'm sticking with physical infection whatever the books say.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 19 2009, 08:10 PM) *
Does the virus also effect me selling the 6 Ares submachine guns I got from an introduction of the shifter?


Yes, if your infection is visible, it does have an effect on your social skills, including Negotiation, which will effect eventual attempts to sell illegal contraband.
Runner's Companion has the details on that.

The advantage of this is that you benefit in situations where you are dealing with people who idolize the Infected or when you are threatening people (which may be the more likely situation), so you may consider becoming the group's Intimidation specialist.
There are several items in Arsenal that provide additional dice for Intimidation, specifically weapons with the Custom Look option and Emotitoys.
If you want to go further down the "i scare the living shit out of everybody" road, particularly glaring cybermods can provide Freak Modifiers for social skill tests.
This will make non-hostile interaction even harder, though.

If you want to avoid that, there are basically four options :
-use a non-infected middleman for such deals
-disguise yourself with clothing covering up the fur, nanopaste disguise etc.
-disguise yourself permanently with major biosculpting (found in Augmentation)
-make deals over the matrix

QUOTE (Screaming Eagle @ May 19 2009, 08:58 PM) *
I don't beleive you can transmit any of the HMHVV stains over the astral plane, no referance just a gut feeling and vague memory that it is a body fluid borne illness - astral forms are purely psyhic. Most of the awakened diseases seem to require physical contact for transmission. Thankfully... the other reason that comes to mind is all it would take is one Ghoul/Vampire/Whatever magician projecting and desiding to infect a few choise people... I'm sticking with physical infection whatever the books say.


You're in line with the books here, physical contact is needed as a vector.
However, one doesn't want to think about the possibilities that arise if a particularly deranged person has acces enough infectious material containing either HMHVV II or III.
Neraph
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ May 20 2009, 06:42 PM) *
You're in line with the books here, physical contact is needed as a vector.
However, one doesn't want to think about the possibilities that arise if a particularly deranged person has acces enough infectious material containing either HMHVV II or III.

I have a Nosferatu with Carrier (Banshee, Dzoo-noo-qua, and Ghoul) who is trying to build an Infected empire. He uses Compulsion, Influence, and Alter Memory to make ghouls follow his orders, and he's currently working on getting Slab splash grenades carrying the Ghoul strain.
Maelstrome
QUOTE (Neraph @ May 21 2009, 05:35 PM) *
I have a Nosferatu with Carrier (Banshee, Dzoo-noo-qua, and Ghoul) who is trying to build an Infected empire. He uses Compulsion, Influence, and Alter Memory to make ghouls follow his orders, and he's currently working on getting Slab splash grenades carrying the Ghoul strain.


BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!

tell me how that works out.
Chibu
This whole thing is nothing new really. However, it's just known that using Alleviate Allergy on a vampire is just being a munchkin. It's not specifically forbidden, but really? Someone mentioned a shadowrun group refusing to work at NIGHT? What? Shadowrun groups pretty much need to work exclusively at night. You're breaking into all those corp facilities where all of the workers are there too? (Don't get me wrong, every once in awhile this has its advantages, but usually not)

Most importantly... You're already a vampire (/werewolf/whatever). Enhanced physical attributes anyone? Regeneration? Are these really not enough? Now, granted, If my GM was absurd enough to shoot my character with an HMHVV dart, I would take the spell out of spite. So, I guess I do agree on that point nyahnyah.gif But for all of you thinking "Well, now I have my next character idea", just stop and remember vampires should be few and far between... I know you play 4th edition, and they took most of the cyberpunk out of it, but that's not reason to make silly characters...

Aside: vampires are cool =D We once had a game where 2 of the characters got infected, one possessed (by specific contract) by a free spirit. I was just a rigger. We were (unknown to the characters for a long time) working for Winternight. Good times. Also, I was once turned into a werewolf as well (why'd they become dual natured in 4th anyway?). We were looking for a bunch of escaped Experimental Bioware test subjects who were real big and had a tendancy toward killing. The first we found was nearly feral (Turns out that was the only one, the rest were rather intelligent). An old man told me there was a werewolf hiding behind a dumpster. We figured it was one of them. It was a werewolf, go figure eh? Got infected, ended up infecting another in the group who went berserk, Crazy antics (gun-fight on a moving limo) ensue. (I won becuase my guns happened to be loaded with XX (he fell off, and calmed down later). Ended up tossing a box full of high explosive grenades into an army of bums who the other Biosubjects gathered for a raid on thier former prison. messed up the good part of a city block in the process. We left the city shortly there-after... Anyway, so we ended up buying an old church (former UB holding, they had recently gotten closed down) and then I decided that during the full moon, it would be best if I chained myself up in the basement to prevent myself from hurting anyone. We then found uot that it's impossible to buy chains strong enough, so I got out, and ran into the woods, came across a lame ritual and ended up killing a bunch of witches. Good times! =D
Starmage21
QUOTE (Chibu @ May 22 2009, 08:35 AM) *
This whole thing is nothing new really. However, it's just known that using Alleviate Allergy on a vampire is just being a munchkin. It's not specifically forbidden, but really? Someone mentioned a shadowrun group refusing to work at NIGHT? What? Shadowrun groups pretty much need to work exclusively at night. You're breaking into all those corp facilities where all of the workers are there too? (Don't get me wrong, every once in awhile this has its advantages, but usually not)

Most importantly... You're already a vampire (/werewolf/whatever). Enhanced physical attributes anyone? Regeneration? Are these really not enough? Now, granted, If my GM was absurd enough to shoot my character with an HMHVV dart, I would take the spell out of spite. So, I guess I do agree on that point nyahnyah.gif But for all of you thinking "Well, now I have my next character idea", just stop and remember vampires should be few and far between... I know you play 4th edition, and they took most of the cyberpunk out of it, but that's not reason to make silly characters...

Aside: vampires are cool =D We once had a game where 2 of the characters got infected, one possessed (by specific contract) by a free spirit. I was just a rigger. We were (unknown to the characters for a long time) working for Winternight. Good times. Also, I was once turned into a werewolf as well (why'd they become dual natured in 4th anyway?). We were looking for a bunch of escaped Experimental Bioware test subjects who were real big and had a tendancy toward killing. The first we found was nearly feral (Turns out that was the only one, the rest were rather intelligent). An old man told me there was a werewolf hiding behind a dumpster. We figured it was one of them. It was a werewolf, go figure eh? Got infected, ended up infecting another in the group who went berserk, Crazy antics (gun-fight on a moving limo) ensue. (I won becuase my guns happened to be loaded with XX (he fell off, and calmed down later). Ended up tossing a box full of high explosive grenades into an army of bums who the other Biosubjects gathered for a raid on thier former prison. messed up the good part of a city block in the process. We left the city shortly there-after... Anyway, so we ended up buying an old church (former UB holding, they had recently gotten closed down) and then I decided that during the full moon, it would be best if I chained myself up in the basement to prevent myself from hurting anyone. We then found uot that it's impossible to buy chains strong enough, so I got out, and ran into the woods, came across a lame ritual and ended up killing a bunch of witches. Good times! =D


Loup-Garou are sucky biggrin.gif
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Chibu @ May 22 2009, 02:35 PM) *
This whole thing is nothing new really. However, it's just known that using Alleviate Allergy on a vampire is just being a munchkin.


People with bad allergies take antihistamines all the time IRL, are they munchkins too?
What exactly is munchkinny about using a well-known and effective method to counter a massive, painful disadvantage?
Imagine exposing yourself to an allergen that is present for about 12 hours every single day would cause you terrible physical pain and you could learn a spell or take a medication against that- wouldn't you do this immediately?
Really, if i was GM, i'd give the player of any vampire spellcaster with a Logic attribute >1 who doesn't learn Alleviate Allergy in an instant a firm slap on the head for hurtfully bad roleplaying, as not learning that spell is obviously just plain retarded for a vamp.
Well, practicing a nonviolent lifestyle, i'd probably do something else than hitting the player on the head, such as kindly suggesting the Mental Handicap Quality, but still...

Please don't fall for that "if i don't intentionally hurt my character without any apparent reason to do so, it's bad roleplaying" 90's storyteller bullshit.
That was never more than a lie systematically propagated by people who where too fucking lazy to read the damn rulebooks or put any serious, coherent thought into their character's actions.

QUOTE
Most importantly... You're already a vampire (/werewolf/whatever). Enhanced physical attributes anyone? Regeneration? Are these really not enough?


The OP's character is a friggin' loup-garou.
And yes, i fully agree with Starmage 21, loup-garou are, at least as far as the mechanics are concerned, made of purest, unadultured suckishnes.
They're about as counter-awesome as any racial choice in SR gets.

Let's take a look at the cold, hard stats :
Basically, he gets +1 to Body, +1 to Willpower and +4 to Strenght (oh wow, the only real advantage of loup-garous, they are halfway awesome in the game's least-used attribute!), a decreased Charisma and Logic maximum, Dual Nature and three different allergies, along with being visibly infected, becoming a walking biohazard, turning into a madman once a month and being forced to eat metahuman flesh.
No Regeneration.
No Mist Form.
No Compulsion, Influence, Magic Resistance or any of the other cool superpowers other Infected get.
For this rather mediocre package, he has to pay off 70 Karma.
Bad deal.


QUOTE
Now, granted, If my GM was absurd enough to shoot my character with an HMHVV dart, I would take the spell out of spite. So, I guess I do agree on that point nyahnyah.gif But for all of you thinking "Well, now I have my next character idea", just stop and remember vampires should be few and far between... I know you play 4th edition, and they took most of the cyberpunk out of it, but that's not reason to make silly characters...


Never. wink.gif

QUOTE
Aside: vampires are cool =D


No, you must be mistaking them with cyberzombies. cyber.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ May 22 2009, 10:12 AM) *
The OP's character is a friggin' loup-garou.

Actually, my characer (I'm the OP) is a Nosferatu with Carrier (Banshee, Dzoo-noo-qua, Ghoul). No loup-garou included, well, because they suck. Hard.
Ryu
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ May 22 2009, 06:12 PM) *
Basically, he gets +1 to Body, +1 to Willpower and +4 to Strenght (oh wow, the only real advantage of loup-garous, they are halfway awesome in the game's least-used attribute!), a decreased Charisma and Logic maximum, ... (snip)

I do believe that infections only modify the attribute minimums/maximums - which works differently if you get infected AFTER buying attributes (=ingame).
St Guardian
Quote [Let's take a look at the cold, hard stats :
Basically, he gets +1 to Body, +1 to Willpower and +4 to Strenght (oh wow, the only real advantage of loup-garous, they are halfway awesome in the game's least-used attribute!), a decreased Charisma and Logic maximum, Dual Nature and three different allergies, along with being visibly infected, becoming a walking biohazard, turning into a madman once a month and being forced to eat metahuman flesh.
No Regeneration.
No Mist Form.
No Compulsion, Influence, Magic Resistance or any of the other cool superpowers other Infected get.
For this rather mediocre package, he has to pay off 70 Karma.
Bad deal.] End Quote

You guys are not reading the part of the time of "bad time" for the Loupe-Gurou. He acts like a bear shaman during those times. WHICH IS, that if he get's hurt or someone get's hurt that is in his care, he goes bezerk for some time. After the bazeark goes away, he takes some stun. So yes, it's bad but avoid getting hit. Also, he comes with natural weapons and all he has to learn is maybe two things then initiate for spells. not that hard actually and doesn't need that much Karma to pull it off. Also, an autoinjector later and BOOM! instant resolution for the allergies. Only problem is a glitch later and my autoinject is SOL.

With a Vampire however, the autoinjector is pointless since the high allergy to the sun is instant hit points. However, if you stick to night only missions, you can get away with it.

On the note of night missions, the last 3 missions have been held during the day. Trust me, the day missions do occur and they really require just a pickup or whatnot.

I think when he says OP he meant me. Now, to make things easier, just put SG if all else fails if your referring to me.

Loup-Gurou maybe the suckiest but it's not as bad as some things he could have picked for me. My group swears that the worst is a Ghoul or a Vampire. So, there is worse things besides what he could have become. Also, stop thinking 3rd dimensional for the Loup-Gurou. They have a lot of potential of a lot of things after the fact. Granted the fact of being struck by a highly contagious virus sucks and I have to keep my distance but it's not instant sucky death. With time and a lot of rp, this character can become really amazing.

Love and peace,
SG
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (St Guardian @ May 22 2009, 12:41 PM) *
Loup-Gurou maybe the suckiest but it's not as bad as some things he could have picked for me.

In regards to Infection, yes, it is.

QUOTE
My group swears that the worst is a Ghoul or a Vampire.

Then your group are idiots. Loup-Garou have all the negatives of a Ghoul, plus some, with significantly less advantages. Vampires are flat-out powerful with relatively minor drawbacks. The only reason I would not play as a vampire is if it does not fit the character concept.

QUOTE
Also, stop thinking 3rd dimensional for the Loup-Gurou. They have a lot of potential of a lot of things after the fact.

Such as?




Edit: Although not one of the most obvious examples, the Loup Garou is one of the most extreme pieces of "It's balanced because I say so!" in Runners Companion. The Loup Garou, as written, is roughly equivalent to a 15-point Negative Quality.
tsuyoshikentsu
Dude, he's a troll.
Starmage21
Um, forgive my use of relatively few words, but ghouls rock. You'd be better off as a ghoul. At least then, it would take a scratch or bite to transmit infection, and not a mere touch.
Inane Imp
This thread is pretty much derailed anyway so:
Where does it say that Loup Garou transmit HMHVV II by touch alone?
QUOTE (Runner's Companion)
Moneriviridae (HMHVV II) are more virulent; transformation typically begins immediately upon transmission of bodily fluids, though it can take some time to become apparent... Human hosts on the other hand develop Criscione€™s Syndrome and are known as loup-garou.


Augmentation states that Contact vector diseases must touch the target's skin.

To me, that means the disease is contained in the infected's body fluids and the body fluids must touch the victim's skins for infection to spread. So day-to-day interraction is unlikely to spread the infections unless SG's character has open wounds, spits on another character, is sweating profusely (even then, sweat doesn't tend to spread diseases so that would be a particularly harsh interpretation) or has unprotected sex. Standard medical precautions for dealing with HIV Positive (or potentially) patients should be all that is required to manage your disease on a daily basis (gloves and respirator).

Imp
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Neraph @ May 22 2009, 04:24 PM) *
Actually, my characer (I'm the OP) is a Nosferatu with Carrier (Banshee, Dzoo-noo-qua, Ghoul). No loup-garou included, well, because they suck. Hard.


Oh damn, all those HMHVV threads get so confusing spin.gif
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