Hmmmm is it just me or is there not a lot of incentive in this campaign to play tech based characters? I'm not saying that In Debt was crucial to that but it was one good option to have, and for people not abusing the mechanic and tracking their debt it wasn't a problem.


One more reason to play a techno/adept/mage vice and kind of cybered character.

There is incentive in the form of stuff for hackers/TM's to do in the matrix on most missions.

/shrug

The heavily-cybered character is still more than viable, especially if you focus on things only tech can do, like raw speed and skillsofts. Admittedly, nerfing activesofts didn't help, but a good street sam can go toe-to-toe with a combat mage, and come out on top fairly often.

In defence of the heavly cybered, Cain is right, as for karma and BP well, its about tactics and planing above all. I mean really, the guys I do missions with, yes all the players have experanced char's with plenty of karma rolled into them, But by playing smart a new char can keep up just as easly, Hell my current tank started brand new in Newyork, Born and bred newyorker And he's gotten a good bit of upgrades durning the missions, And guess what he kept up with the people I was playing with just fine when he started,

Its all about forthought and team work. and above all FUN!

If my bleary-eyed morning-math is right the magic number on cracked activesofts per character in Missions is 8. Assuming you complete your runs in a half-week, do one run per week, don't use 'downtime' for gear acquisition [instead using 'swag' through a fixer contact or use a team face], and have access to a set of trodes and a legal rating 1 programming suite and cheapo nexus with legal system/firewall a character with a 1 logic and 1 software skill using trodes for the +2 VR bonus can patch one program per half week and still obey the optional hard skillcheck cap rule and 4:1 buying downtime hits rule. The activesofts degrade at a rate of 1 point every 8 weeks thus 8 cracked activesofts.
Every character gets 4 free weeks of lifestyle per year so thats 4 'runs that can run over the half week without impacting the schedule.

Nexus (Resp 1, System 1, Signal none [use trodenet], Persona Limit 10, Processor Limit 1): 775 nuyen+50 nuyen for trodes
Software Programming Suite 1: 1000 nuyen
8 cracked rating 3 activesofts: 24000 nuyen. One would need to be the Software skill if its not a meat skill for the character. A degraded rating 2 software activesoft still can be used to make a patch for a dupe of itself since you only need/can use one hit to patch with per 8 weeks.
Total cost: 25825 nuyen [so 6 build on a starting character with 4175 nuyen left over and everything is avail 8 or less]

Characters without skillwires that have a software skill of 1 [cost after chargen: 4 karma] can patch knowsofts and tacsofts at the same rate so up to 8 per non-skillwires character. Not sure any of this is worth the bookkeeping but it shows that skillwires are still very viable but that they now scale per person and no longer solely by nuyen.

ok .... so my question is this .... when Exactly does this change come into play ... does it come into play from when the announcement was made ... or when the FAQ becomes official ... as I have some players asking

Specifically I have a missions game starting this tuesday or next tuesday so the timing on this is fairly paramount for me

in other game system Global campaigns things become official when the new campaign standards are announced ... or once the errata is printed

Personally, I'd recommend going with the newer policies as soon as you find out about them. It's kinda like accelerating toward a stop sign: sure it'll get you there faster, but you already know you're going to have to stop when you get there.

Everyone assumes that "In Debt" means that they loaned you money and you are paying back money. In debt gives you the cash as a way to represent BP that you didn't have to spend on something else.

Good examples that I use in game:

1) Someone got you out of jail (Mob lawyer, prison break that took you along, hacker changed the release date). You owe them the cash for their services rendered on top of just "owing" them in general. "If I didn't get you out of that cesspool you'd still be rotting there! You owe me man!"

2) One of the skills you learned at a high level and you still owe the teacher who gave you the lessons with a differed payment plan. You'll still owe them for teaching you the skill even after you paid for their services as they did it as a favor to you. (And do you really want to still Master Lo-Han who taught you the silent way or the street shaman who taught you how to summon and bind spirits?)

3) You were somehow hurt badly and a local street doc put you back together and saved your life (and maybe put in the cyber to let you see). You owe your medical bill, but if he hadn't patched you together you will be dead or even worse a cripple.

4) going with the Mob or Yaks, you always owe them. Even after the money is paid. Once your in its hard to get out.

So what happens if you don't keep paying your "debt" after the money is gone? For one your rep will take a BIG hit if it gets out and your contacts might start to loose loyalty. ("Doc saved his life and he wouldn't even help hide him from that ghoul trying to break into his bio-vats!) Also if you still a teacher some of the other students might take it upon themselves to avenge the honor of their teacher and school.

Think of it as a loyalty rating from the person you owe until it is paid off, but they have no loyalty to you.

Any shadowunner worth his salt is going to be able to dump an identity like a hot potato. If your reputation takes a hit that it can't recover from, just get a new fake SIN and facial reconstructive surgery. You might lose some street cred, but it'll be worth it to get rid of the notoriety.

The entire point of a Negative Quality is that you're taking it because it's a genuine hindrance to you. All the excuses people are offering in this thread about getting the loan, ditching the identity, and starting over somewhere else is an explanation for your starting resources. It's not the In Debt quality. Likewise, you didn't take the loan from an easily ignored source. You're in debt to someone hardcore who can and will get their money one way or another. Otherwise you'd just have the Wanted or maybe an Enemy quality instead.

The burden is on the person taking the quality to explain why it's an actual Negative Quality that reflects the associated rules. Not the GM or anyone else. It's up to the GM to live up to the quality, but not to explain its source or why it's going to impact the character the way it is.