I've been considering adding other shapeshifter types to the roster, and I was wondering if y'all have already done so and would be willing to share how you implemented them.

MrsPaulanthropy, by the light of the full moon, the subject turns into a box of frozen fish sticks and terrorizes freezers.

Sunday

I just don't allow them. Too much potenial for abuse. They are almost impossible to kill unless you use silver. I'm too nice to just make all the enemies use silver bullets, too smart to just ignore the silver allergy, and too lazy to keep track of who knows the true nature of the charater and his/her weakness to silver

The rules for them seem balanced. I've never played one but having to buy Attributes for both forms seem like it would suck the big one.

Yup, if you are using build points system, you've got to have to put a lot of those BPs into Attributes because you are spreading those Attribute points over 9 Attributes.

If my players want shapeshifters, they usually do it becuase of roleplay. Min-maxing just doesn't work with shapeshifters, IMO.

True, but I think it would be really hard. Remember, these are animals, not humans. It's a whole different viewpoint, and rather hard to see things from that perspective.

Some of the shapeshifters (like bear) have really huge modifiers to their stats, so I don't think attributes is too much of a setback. What really makes them somewhat unbalanced to me is the regen. Maybe if I took that bit out...

On a completely different topic, does anyone realized that by using cyberware, shapeshifter rules, and the psyonic rules from MITS, you could make a runner team almost identical to the X-Men?

Not off the top of my head I can't update you, but Regenerating creatures in my game are actually worse than by the core rules. They roll to die after you push them through overdamage, just like all other living things. They regenerate (Body+10/passes) damage every pass. Its more organic then healing instantly every 3 seconds. They also will probably be wearing as much body armor as you, at least the bipedal intelligent ones, they aren't typically stupid.

I've made up stats for almost all of the shapeshifters mentioned in various sourcebooks, and some others: Crocodile, Heron, Horse, Jaguar, Owl, Raven, Snake and Swan, plus updated versions of the Cyberpirates 'shifters: Chiwanda(Lion), Malakat(Dog), Pugot(Hog) and Warek(Leopard, but has allergy and vulnerability to Gold instead of Silver).

It's the dual nature that really screws Shapeshifters over in my opinion. In any kind of Astral combat they're screwed fast by the sheer speed of astral attacks.

Also it can produce some horrible situations at times. I recall a game I GMed from a book a long time ago, I think it was DNA-DOA. One of the Shadowrunners was a shapeshifter who kept his nature a secret due to prejudice. The book specified a hermetic circle around the meeting site because Johnson was paranoid about astral eavesdroppers. Our Shapeshifter was completely incapable of entering the room and talking to Mr. Johnson.

One thing I dislike intensely about the existing shapeshifters is the blandness of the racial bonuses they get.

They need more stuff like low light vision, enhanced smell, hearing, to hit t# modifiers for small size when shifted, etc.

So when toying with new animals I gave them lots of stuff like that. So owl would get night vision, enhanced hearing, +2 stealth even in human form, but not much in stats. Eagle would get mag vision 3. Rat gets a base t# of six for ranged combat when shifted and +4 body vs toxins and diseases in either form.



I actually hate the separate physical attributes also. If you are a huge bear shifter that should be in both forms. You should not have differnt physignomies in your different forms.

RE: OurTeam

I guess I was just looking over the rules for shapeshifter and noticed there weren't very many animals. I'd really like to include snakes, elephants, rats, stuff like that. It looks like a lot of people don't use shapeshifters, so I guess it wasn't a very good question though

Thing is, most people here have used 'shifters, and found them to be somewhat lacking in one way or another. To some, the regeneration is the problem. To others, it is the fact that a 'shifter is an animal first, with all that entails. Yet others have a problem with their motivation, and/or place in the Sixth World.

I wouldn't use snakes, at least keep it mammals. A Snake shapeshifter poses all new kinds of problems.

At least the were-whale problems are going to be funny .

The person who started the thread did not specify player charachters. I have gm'd for were-players and have to say it was a painful experience I would as soon avoid as repeat, however they make great npc's.

In my humble(?) opinion, 'shifters rarely make for good PCs - hard to roleplay; hard to rollplay (at least since they removed the 8 Essence=8 Magic - I've houseruled that right back) and you end up with the problem of loosing all your clothes/gear if you have to shift suddenly to escape. True, regeneration gives you a longer lifespan (in theory) but the inability to wear armor if you want to use both forms means you'll roll for it more often if you get hit.

That said, they have alot of roleplaying potential if you really want to play something with 'alien' morals and views. 'What do you mean I can't kill him? I'm hungry...' 'Why should I pay for that weird-smelling thing you call food - there's plenty of food on that security guard!!' 'No, I'm not a cannibal - he's human, I'm not.'

I also personally give the animal form whatever 'powers' the animal has. Since mundane critters in shadowrun doesn't have powers, I use common sense. They do not get those bonuses in human form, however.

Actually, they make great 'roll' players. Like I showed in a previous thread, a Fox shapeshifter can easily start with 8 in all mental attributes, and that means he's the BEST in the Astral Plane. And since they regenerate all physical damage, he can cast spells in the Astral Plane all day long as long as they don't have a Deadly Drain. Shapeshifter Projecters are better than Spirits on the Astral Plane as they don't have to return to their home-plane to heal.

Sphynx

Edit: I don't actually allow Shapeshifters in my games unless they are willing to lose the Regneration completely. Instead of regenerating, if a Player wanted to play a Shapeshifter I'd come up with faster healing rules, not 1-round regeneration.

You might want to bear in mind that although eagles and other preadatory birds may be able to see extremely far, they only see in monochrome. In-fact it is the limitation to monochrome vision has a two-fold advantage: they only need to focus one frequency of light accurately (refracting light causes it to split prism-style); and they need to process it less (meaning that they can put more processing into recognition of shapes from poor glimpses).

I think eagles see in close to red where I think owls and the like see more in blue. Red light bends less and so is better for long-distance vision, blue light is more easily refracted around the earth in the atmosphere so there is more of it at night.

I'm not a biologist, I'm an Artificial Intelligence and Software Engineering student, you might want to check these facts as I might not be right.