This character was put together mostly for the fun of it - not sure if he will ever enter play, but I figured I'd use him as my first foray into getting input from the DS community. His biggest hole? I can't think of a name for him :-) I could think of a name for his minigun, but not the character himself.

The other thing I'm not satisfied with is his Logic. Yes, he's a very physical character, but he has at least average intelligence - Logic of 3, IIRC. Unfortunately, I don't see where in the build I can dig up 10-20 BP from...



Assuming I have my recoil compensation handled right, I should be looking at a dicepool of 16 (6 Agility + 6 Automatics + 2 Machine Gun Spec + 2 Smartgun - 14 Recoil + 14 Recoil Compensation) for a narrow burst from Gloria with a base DV of 20P. More modest but still double-digit dicepools for the rest of the weapons.

My group (including the GM) are still getting the hang of the basic run-n-gun rules, hence the lack of contacts, fake licenses, and the like. Also, no availability limits at chargen.

He'll always be carrying his survival knife, telescopic staff, and his sidearm (the SMG). If he's on a low-key "mission", he adds the grenade launcher on a short sling across his chest. For an all-out, bring-out-the-national-guard situation, Gloria and the Ballista make their appearances. The Vogeljaeger, too, if he's bought any missiles for it. That's when the FFBA and SWAT armor come into play, as well.

But that kind of situation doesn't happen too very often, right...? ;-)

Depends heavily on the group.
But yeah, the fact that he can't do anything apart from killing people is a disatvantage in my opinion. He doesn't even have intimidate to have his guns stand in for social skills in an information gathering session.

For some people, much like real life, that is all they can do.

Not everyone has a flexible set of skills.

I don't see anything wrong, but it is a limitation - that's all.

My only critique is that I'd bring Logic up from 1 even if it meant decreasing Edge.

- J.

I agree. A logic and charisma of 1, with no social skills, to me, seems like a brawl waiting to happen.

---
Mr. J: Do you think you can handle it?
Troll: What!? You don't think --I-- can handle THAT!?
*pulls out Gloria*
---

People won't like him in general. He won't understand simple innuendo or hints. His intuition might let him make connections between things and give a gut feeling, but no logic will make him not very understanding of any strategy or tactics.

Think of the numbers as not how many dice you roll, but for how good he is at a certain thing. Charisma is how well people like him, and how well he can represent himself. Logic is reasoning and deduction. If he has a good gut reaction, but smells like a sewer and can't add 2 and 2, you succeeded.

Although. You say it's your first character. Not too bad for a first try. I made something similar my first time. "Who needs charisma and etiquette?" I said. Try and tone down the "I can kill you with anything I can find" kind of thing. He needs to be able to do a bit more then shoot things. Intimidation sounds fitting. Tracking, shadowing, or maybe even a knowledge skill of fine wines. ^^

BTW,

A low-key mission? As in something where you need to not be found? Grenades, not so covert.

(Hope I didn't sound too critical. Sorry if I did.) ^^

First, what I like is that you are buying the "secondary" skills - like Armorer - for your profession(s). There are nevertheless a few things that I would change. Do you have Arsenal/Augmentation?

Driving
Gearhead (Hotspur)
Gunnery: 4
Pilot Ground Craft: 3
Automotive Mechanic: 2 ->A gimmick for characters with logic 1.
-> A solid way of handling driving (the old-fashioned way, don´t try rigging with that gear/skillset), but I would prefer to put the points into social skills.

Qualities
Ambidextrous
Uncouth
-> Ambidextrous does nothing for this concept. Uncouth is one of the qualities one should really not buy, it does define a character. Pay 25% more for being a troll, pay double for being "a pleasure to make business with". Plus you need to make a choice between playing your character and being at peace with the other characters. Not good.


Active Skills
Firearms Group: 4
Heavy Weapons (Machine Guns): 6 ->Gloria could be an assault rifle or combat shotgun, saving many BP.
Demolitions: 3 ->A gimmick for characters with logic 1.
Throwing Weapons: 2
Armorer: 2 ->A gimmick for characters with logic 1.
Clubs: 4 -> Close Combat Group 1 + leftovers or Unarmed will IMO be more useful.
Dodge: 2 -> You are not going to waste an IP on full defense for two dice.
Navigation: 1
Survival: 1

Augmentation
Muscle Replacement (Rating 2) -> Should be replaced by muscle augmentation/toner.

I dunno, Clubs has it's advantages-better Reach, for one. That, and just flavor. While I might prefer Unarmed myself, sometimes taking a weapon for flavor(IE, wanting to bash stuff with a bat) is just as well.

But I agree-Logic 1, Charisma 1-Armorer wouldn't work too well, and yes, needs social skills. Also, willpower of 2; being a Fomori helps this a bit with the inate Arcane Arrester, but I would still try to get this to 3. Problem is, I can't see what you can really drop. I mean, I suppose you could take one from Strength, but then you're getting dangerously close to the ''Troll with Base Strength of 5'' syndrome. I suppose having a 6( could work if it meant you'd have an extra stun box, which might be more worth it. Good Reaction and Body are important, and a 2 edge is...well, doable, but a 3 is indeed better. Really, I think Edge or Strength would be the only viable options for pulling points from.

You could instead try to scrape up some Nuyen and get him a Cerebral Booster. That might help the Logic situation.

As for Logic vs. Charisma-I COULD see characters hanging with a charisma of 1 as long as they had a bit of a social skill to back them up-even a 1+2 Street Etiquette or Intimidation. Or just...stayed far from meets.

No Stealth, either. I mean, I know the guy with the HMG is the heavy weapons guy, but still having at least an Infiltration skill would help. No Stealth or Social Skills at all means he's only used for shooting things. I agree it's a pretty good first character; but I too fell into this trap with some of my early ones. I found that I ended up actually getting bored at times, since ideal runs usually don't have the HMGs coming out.

It also depends, I think, on the rest of the team and type of game. Now, if it's a team that's say, the Ikari Warriors meets the A-Team and you take similar jobs? I think this guy could fit in just fine. He DOES have a nice array of skills, which is something that many first combat-characters don't have many times, and he will make a pretty nice getaway guy. I think that's my feelings about the character-for a ''Typical'' shadowrun game he would run into problems-but for a 'specialized' game, he looks like a lot of fun and is quite well made overall.

Thanks for the input, gents!

Individualized responses, in one mammoth post:

Dragnar
I thought about working some Intimidation in, but I don't think the character concept really fits it. Yes, he's naturally intimidating, but it's not something he would consciously choose to use, most times. Does that make sense?

The Jake
Logic has come up to 3, via other mods. :-D

xicidis
Yeah, the lack of Logic and Charisma are my main worries - I don't want him necessarily to get along with everyone he meets, but I do want him to be capable of getting through a meeting with a Johnson without killing anyone.

The extensive firearms skills weren't so much so he could pick up anything and be great with it, but more to represent that he's a hardware junky. He knows everything that happens under the hood of his Hotspur, and everything that takes place inside any of his weapons. Seems odd to have that level of knowledge about only a certain subset of weapons. On the other hand, pistols and longarms (the 2 he doesn't consistently use himself) do tend to be used more as single-shot/burst-fire, whereas his skill is going to be with spraying bullets around in a huge cone... Hmmm. Also, it occurs to me that under-the-hood knowledge would more be represented by Armorer and the Firearms knowledge skill.

Ok. Dropped the Firearms skill group, bought Automatics back up to 4, and 1 point each into Longarms and Pistols (he's not completely unaware of how to use them). That leaves enough BP for another point into Logic, woot.

I wish I could claim this was my first character, but no, probably about the 5th or sixth I've made. Still early in my career, though, I suppose :-) Certainly the most fun to put together, thus far.

Oh, and "low-key" was more to say that the run has a goal like "steal this" or "guard this" rather than "do as much damage as possible to my rival Mafia family."

No worries on criticality - seemed in-line to me.

Ryu
On the driving stuff, this is one of those times I get torn between "useful character" and "character sheet matches backstory." I suppose Gearhead may be sligh overkill for the particular level of knowledge... Pilot + Mechanic will suffice. Gearhead dropped. With the extras from my xicidis mods, that's another point into Charisma. Excellent.

Good call on Ambidextrous, that was a relic from when the troll was going to dual-wield a weapon. Dropped.

With the Uncouth, I'm going less for "hair-trigger if you insult him" and more for "has no tact, will call you ugly if you are." Though I see, rereading Uncouth, it says "Sociopathic," so I'm guessing it's not what I want.. Unfortunately, I don't see 20 BP-worth of other negative qualities to take its place.

On Dodge: agreed. Dropped.

At this point, I do have enough extra BP from previous mods for a 3rd point into Logic, and to swap out my Muscle Replacement for both Augmentation and Toner. I'm now butting up against 50 BP for gear. One BP left outside gear.

ElFenrir
Agreed on the Clubs. Just fits :-)

Ok, at this point in my replies, I have gotten Charisma up to 2, and Logic up to 3. How to find another 10 BP for Willpower... Let me go ahead and pull a point from Strength and see how we look. That puts me at an even Strength - should I go ahead and take another point from it, since it won't affect my melee attacks? Is there anything else major to worry about with Strength? (and yeah, that would definitely make me a Troll w/ Strength 5... hmm)

As far as stealth goes.. hmm. So far, my group hasn't had a lot of use for stealth. We do have a vampire on the team who has used it once or twice, but other than that we're largely run-n-gun. Probably expect that to change, though, as we continue to get used to the rules. Our last mission involved the total destruction of a factory, the security outfit guarding it, and most of the Mafia family that owned it.

Thanks for the compliment :-)

Revised character

And he has now entered play as one of my fellow gamers' PC, with the name of Tiny, as the brother of Vollmond the troll mage I play. First session went well

just a minor Nitpicking (Hope its the right word) Glorias Recoilcompensation needs a Redesign. IIRC personalised grip,auto-weight and Gyro don't match ?!

HokaHey
Medicineman

Hmm you appear to be partially right. Personalized Grip is compatible with everything but Electronic Firing, but Gyromount and Auto-adjusting weight don't appear to be kosher together. Oops. Just have to swap out the auto-weight for a heavy barrel mod. Thanks for the catch.

I'm just wondering: can you add a person. Grip with a personalised Foregrip ??(to get a Recoil of 3 for pers. Grip,Foregrip and person. Foregrip) or is there a Munchkin dancin' on my shoulder ?

He who won't dance with Munchkins
Medicineman

The recoil comatability rules are on pg 148 of Arsenal - I don't see anything to disallow pers. grip + foregrip.

Wait, you mean personalizing the foregrip. Hmm. I could see GMs going either way on this. Honestly, I expect the existing personalized grip would account for the foregrip - if it was a two-hander already, the forward handhold (whether a nice grip or not) would presumably have been altered at the same time as the main grip.

I think that the +1 RC is as far as Personalisation should take you. Those who see it otherwise should consider adding another level of personalised grip for two-handed weapons.

technically, a minigun has 6 barrels . . so would heavy barrel actually ad 6 points of compensation?
also, i'd name her Reason.
EVERYBODY listens to Reason after all *snickers*

I would think heavy barrel would roughly translate to "heavy front end of weapon". I don't think double-barreled shotguns would get 2 points.

Heh, I'm rereading Snow Crash right now, but one of our other characters already had a weapon (sniper rifle) named Reason.

then Equality: One Size fits all!
or all are equal before her.
yes, but still, the minigun has SIX of those . .