Ok. I need some info on a little question before my GM (Sahandrian, suicide run GM extraordinaire) sends me on a $4,000,000 nuyen run (that's a helluva lot by our book, people. Most of our runs only pay a few thousand each) into the Renraku Arcology, I have only this to ask...
Could titanium bone lacing possibly affect stealth tests made to run or land silently? I want to know this so that I don't have to blast my way through the whole thing.
~Phaeton
Full Version: Titanium lacing and stealth factors
I don't think it would. If it did, they'd have made rules for it.
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| Ok. I need some info on a little question before my GM (Sahandrian, suicide run GM extraordinaire) sends me on a $4,000,000 nuyen run (that's a helluva lot by our book, people. Most of our runs only pay a few thousand each) into the Renraku Arcology, I have only this to ask... Could titanium bone lacing possibly affect stealth tests made to run or land silently? I want to know this so that I don't have to blast my way through the whole thing. ~Phaeton |
Since it does increase your weight, I might add a +1 penalty when trying to be quiet while jumping, but I can't see it for moving.
Yeah...
Alphadyne (the char I'm using for this): *jumps* *THUD* *jumps* *THUD* *drones hear him, come in and kill him*
...Well, with a full titanium skeleton, anyway, it sure would...
Alphadyne (the char I'm using for this): *jumps* *THUD* *jumps* *THUD* *drones hear him, come in and kill him*
...Well, with a full titanium skeleton, anyway, it sure would...
Why am I reminded of a thief in platemail conversation?
I wonder if the Titanium skeleton gives weapon systems a bonus for locking on to your signature...
-Siege
I wonder if the Titanium skeleton gives weapon systems a bonus for locking on to your signature...
-Siege
It shouldn't. It doesn't send out any extra heat or noise.
Do your joints make a lot of noise when you jump? If not, then it shouldn't impose any Stealth modifiers. It's called "lacing" for a reason. It isn't a full bone replacement, just a bone lacing.
Do your joints make a lot of noise when you jump? If not, then it shouldn't impose any Stealth modifiers. It's called "lacing" for a reason. It isn't a full bone replacement, just a bone lacing.
Well, bone lacing just has nanites fuse bits of the material in question to your skeleton. 
A full titanium skeleton would probably prevent you from moving effectively, though...
EDIT: Tanka beat me to it. 
A full titanium skeleton would probably prevent you from moving effectively, though...EDIT: Tanka beat me to it.
I was being mostly funny, but if there's enough of the metal in your system to provide a noticeable increase in your weight as well as offer the listed game mechanic bonuses, it's gotta show up like a beacon on metal detectors, cyberware scanners and similar devices.
-Siege
-Siege
If a troll doesn't have any penalties for jumping or using Stealth, other characters with a mere +15kg in Weight aren't going to be penalized, either.
Detecting Bone Lacing follows all the standard rules for cyberware detection against the same grade of implant, be it via a cyberware scanner or MAD. If unsure what rules to use, use the rules for Synthetic Cyberlimbs.
Detecting Bone Lacing follows all the standard rules for cyberware detection against the same grade of implant, be it via a cyberware scanner or MAD. If unsure what rules to use, use the rules for Synthetic Cyberlimbs.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| I was being mostly funny, but if there's enough of the metal in your system to provide a noticeable increase in your weight as well as offer the listed game mechanic bonuses, it's gotta show up like a beacon on metal detectors, cyberware scanners and similar devices. -Siege |
Not my concern here.
I'm taking the backdoor into the arco through the Ork Underground...Somehow. My main concern is whether I'll live, not whether I beep like a Jerry Springer show whenever someone waves a scanner wand over me.
Titanium bone lacing adds 15 kilos of encumbrance to your character - in other words, you weigh about 30 pounds more due to your enhanced skeletal structure. This encumbrance is added to your normal gear, so if you are packing a lot of other stuff on top of bone lacing, you could get slowed down or tire more quickly (it depends on how strict your GM is with the encumbrance rules, and how high your Strength is - if you have a pretty high Strength, you might barely notice the extra weight). It will also show up on a metal detector.
I don't think it would be that much of an extra factor, but face it - most characters with bone lacing are already heavily muscled, heavily armored characters who carry around heavy weapons. Even if your character is very athletic and stealthy, I doubt he will be landing that softly. Just running shouldn't be a problem, though. I mean, it's not like it squeaks when you move or anything.
I don't think it would be that much of an extra factor, but face it - most characters with bone lacing are already heavily muscled, heavily armored characters who carry around heavy weapons. Even if your character is very athletic and stealthy, I doubt he will be landing that softly. Just running shouldn't be a problem, though. I mean, it's not like it squeaks when you move or anything.
"Hey, Clem, oil me up, we're breaking into Renraku tonight!"
"Wahoo!"
"Wahoo!"
I'm running a combat decker with handicaps.
I'm not worrying much about encumbrance. The decker is being allowed a HELL of a lot of priveleges at chargen, and he's toting a SMG with huge clips and AV ammo.
Not to mention being allowed betaware.
This is not munchkinry, dear DSFers.
This is a sporting chance in one of Sahandrian's huge-payoff games.
Yes, the odds in these ARE suicidal.
I might survive to the third room with all this.
~Phaeton
EDIT:
@ Tanka
I'm not worrying much about encumbrance. The decker is being allowed a HELL of a lot of priveleges at chargen, and he's toting a SMG with huge clips and AV ammo.
Not to mention being allowed betaware.
This is not munchkinry, dear DSFers.
This is a sporting chance in one of Sahandrian's huge-payoff games.
Yes, the odds in these ARE suicidal.
I might survive to the third room with all this.
~Phaeton
EDIT:
@ Tanka
Form-fitting body armor and electronic sensor camoflauge.
-Siege
-Siege
And don't forget your AVS firing dikoted half-Ghouls/half-Citymaster free ally spirit drakes! 
...In all seriousness, though, Sahandrian's games are fun. If suicidally hard at times.
EDIT: Siege, I don't think you understand how psychotic Sahandrian's games can get. No offense.
...In all seriousness, though, Sahandrian's games are fun. If suicidally hard at times.
EDIT: Siege, I don't think you understand how psychotic Sahandrian's games can get. No offense.
Grenades are not meant to open doors. That was your own fault.
| QUOTE |
| Grenades are not meant to open doors. |
That would depend on the grenade. And for efficiency, it depends on the door. Security doors, no. An "average" door (Average Materials, Barrier Rating 4) will be blasted to bits by any grenade that goes off inside a meter of it. An IPE grenade will even blast a "Heavy Materials" door.
If you're going crawling through the Renraku arcology, look into:
1. Form-fitting body armor
2. Electronic camoflauge -- I'm not making it up
-Siege
1. Form-fitting body armor
2. Electronic camoflauge -- I'm not making it up
-Siege
Grenades can be like a present thrown /through/ doors, however.
Firing a minigrenade from his Alpha at a normal side-door to bust his way into a building he knew was heavily guarded.
He was quickly deemed the distraction, and the other three team members actually completed the job.
He was quickly deemed the distraction, and the other three team members actually completed the job.
| QUOTE (Siege) |
| If you're going crawling through the Renraku arcology, look into: 1. Form-fitting body armor 2. Electronic camoflauge -- I'm not making it up -Siege |
You got a referrance? I want to try that.
| QUOTE (Phaeton) |
| Could titanium bone lacing possibly affect stealth tests made to run or land silently? I want to know this so that I don't have to blast my way through the whole thing. |
Titanium BL won't affect sound-based stealth anymore than putting on ~30 pounds of body weight would.
However, beware metal detectors.
Running the Arcology?, best of luck Phaeton. and nope i domt think the bone lacing screws up any stealth tests either.
| QUOTE |
| You got a referrance? I want to try that. |
Cannon Companion has rules for form fitting armour p51, thermographic shielding p53 and anti sensor camouflage p97. Adds 4 to signature or 5 at night.
| QUOTE (Link) | ||
Cannon Companion has rules for form fitting armour p51, thermographic shielding p53 and anti sensor camouflage p97. Adds 4 to signature or 5 at night. |
Thanks -- I didn't want to dig out my books.
-Siege
I was really eager to play that game, Sahandrian. 
And I was tired. I WOULD have been thinking better, but we were all @#*^ busy...
And I was tired. I WOULD have been thinking better, but we were all @#*^ busy...
| QUOTE (Sahandrian) |
| Grenades are not meant to open doors. That was your own fault. |
I wasn't referring to that game.
Look. I'm only stupid if I didn't get enough sleep. Hell, I was gonna raid the Renraku Seattle HQ for blueprints of the Arco for reference. Like I said. Not stupid if I'm both awake and in a decent mood.
| QUOTE (Cray74) |
| Titanium BL won't affect sound-based stealth anymore than putting on ~30 pounds of body weight would. However, beware metal detectors. |
Can you tell me in a nutshell or point me to a good site explaining how MADs work? Titanium isn't magnetic (and my friend insists that his titanium spine cage sets off MADs) so I figure there must be something more to a "magnetic anomaly" than the phenomenon present in ferrous metal.
I figure you're a good person to ask.
I think one of the Neo-A books had something, and I'm sure something newer does as well.
I mean their real-life workings, not the shadowrun rules for them.
Magnetic Anomaly Detectors (I think) work on detecting relative density.
I know the metal detectors in Florida will detect the metal strips in my shoes while the Atlanta detectors (the last time I went through) didn't register my shoes.
-Siege
I know the metal detectors in Florida will detect the metal strips in my shoes while the Atlanta detectors (the last time I went through) didn't register my shoes.
-Siege
| QUOTE (Zazen) |
| Can you tell me in a nutshell or point me to a good site explaining how MADs work? Titanium isn't magnetic (and my friend insists that his titanium spine cage sets off MADs) so I figure there must be something more to a "magnetic anomaly" than the phenomenon present in ferrous metal. |
Most metal detectors basically generate a magnetic field and (importantly) vary the field's strength. Moving magnetic fields cause currents in conductive objects (not necessarily magnetic materials, just conductive ones). And where there are electrical currents, there are magnetic fields. (This is how non-magnetic materials like copper and aluminum can be used to make electromagnets and electrical motors: by flowing current through them, a magnetic field is created).
The metal detector then detects this new, external magnetic field because, hey, the target's "induced" magnetic field is causing electrical currents in the detector's receiving antenna, just like the metal detector is creating electrical currents in the conductive object.
The magnetic field in the target is not the same as the one created by the detector; shape, size, conductivity, and many other factors alter the magnetic field created in the target. So the detector knows to ignore the field it's producing and just listens for the target's magnetic field.
There's variations. How Stuff Works is usually a good site to head to for questions like this.
I think the actual "Magnetic Anomaly Detectors" (MADs) used by sub-hunting aircraft are a bit different. Those rely on an existing magnetic field - the Earth's - and watch for variations in it caused by big lumps of (ferrous?) metal, rather than triggering electrical currents and magnetic fields in the submarines like hand held metal detectors.
That makes perfect sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me
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