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Fyndhal
So, I appear to finally have a chance to play 4th Ed instead of just theory crafting it. Since this is my first "real" character, I figured I'd toss it up here for review. Any suggestions for improvements would be appreciated. I chose Elf as a race because I tend to like to play "across type" -- the character isn't a face or a mage.


Stats
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Background/20 Questions
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kzt
No specialization "auto pistols?"

Having no skill in any other guns that pistols seems like a mistake to me, but that's just me.
Glyph
I did an adept gunslinger who was a "pure" adept, once. They are definitely weaker than adepts who have succumbed to the lure of bioware, but they are still viable. Overall, a good build. The skills are especially well-done, since they fit the background of someone who is an expert target shooter but new to the shadows, while at the same time it is a useful skill set for a shadowrunner. I concur that the lack of a pistols specialization is hurting you unnecessarily, but I assume you are holding off to get it cheaper with Karma, and the character can certainly get by without it to begin.

Attribute-wise, I assume you are hard-maxing Reaction because you eventually want to get your improved reflexes up to 3, and don't want to spend the Karma to improve the augmented Reaction? The thing is, improving Reaction from 8 to 9 is still only 27 Karma, and 27 Karma after the game starts is still a better deal than blowing 25 build points. Most of your build is pretty complete, so I wouldn't bring this up except that your Body is too low for the armor you got. Once you get past the armor jacket by itself, you run into penalties.

Personally, I think you would be better off with Body and Reaction of 5, and 15 points to spend elsewhere - boost one of your mental Attributes by 1 and get the guts or ambidexterity quality, for example. Or maybe get long arms: 3 and spend 3 points boosting Angel up a tad (I agree with kzt that having only pistols is limiting. It fits the character, but long arms at a lower rating would, I think, still fit in with your background - someone who occasionally fired a rifle as well as a pistol, maybe).

Power-wise, good selection, but I would consider starting out with improved reflexes: 2 and only 1 point of combat sense. You lose one net die for defense tests, but gain a point of initiative and an extra IP, which is a pretty good tradeoff.
Fyndhal
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 31 2008, 01:39 PM) *
I did an adept gunslinger who was a "pure" adept, once. They are definitely weaker than adepts who have succumbed to the lure of bioware, but they are still viable. Overall, a good build. The skills are especially well-done, since they fit the background of someone who is an expert target shooter but new to the shadows, while at the same time it is a useful skill set for a shadowrunner. I concur that the lack of a pistols specialization is hurting you unnecessarily, but I assume you are holding off to get it cheaper with Karma, and the character can certainly get by without it to begin.

Attribute-wise, I assume you are hard-maxing Reaction because you eventually want to get your improved reflexes up to 3, and don't want to spend the Karma to improve the augmented Reaction? The thing is, improving Reaction from 8 to 9 is still only 27 Karma, and 27 Karma after the game starts is still a better deal than blowing 25 build points. Most of your build is pretty complete, so I wouldn't bring this up except that your Body is too low for the armor you got. Once you get past the armor jacket by itself, you run into penalties.

Personally, I think you would be better off with Body and Reaction of 5, and 15 points to spend elsewhere - boost one of your mental Attributes by 1 and get the guts or ambidexterity quality, for example. Or maybe get long arms: 3 and spend 3 points boosting Angel up a tad (I agree with kzt that having only pistols is limiting. It fits the character, but long arms at a lower rating would, I think, still fit in with your background - someone who occasionally fired a rifle as well as a pistol, maybe).

Power-wise, good selection, but I would consider starting out with improved reflexes: 2 and only 1 point of combat sense. You lose one net die for defense tests, but gain a point of initiative and an extra IP, which is a pretty good tradeoff.



Reaction should be 5 (6) actually. Mistake when I was typing him in. Good advice, though.

If I had more BP's, I'd most likely increase Contacts, rather than stats. That's the area I think is weakest on the character.

The build originally had Ambidexterity, but I dropped it. Same with Bioware; I had a hard time justifying that RP wise, though.

Specializing in Auto-Pistols -- would that *really* make sense for a Target shooter?
Trax
A few years ago when we were doing a pistols familiarity exercise, for a little fun at the end (and an excuse to get rid of all the ammunition), they'd have us quick fire at the targets with directions such as 2 in the chest, 1 in the head. You would then aim and shoot in that order as quick as you could. It's all about speed and accuracy.
Glyph
If I picked a specialization, it would be semi-automatics. I'm not sure there even is an auto-pistol specialization, although he might have meant semi-automatics.
Trax
Oh yeah, I forgot that point. I thought it meant semi-automatics as well. Otherwise maybe he was talking about the machine pistols.
Fyndhal
BTW, the breakdown for this in BP is:

Stats: 200
Race: 30
Special Stats: 50
Active Skills: 126
Positive Qualities: 10
Negative Qualities: -25
Resources: 6
Contacts: 3
or 400/400 BP

If I used the Karma Gen system instead , it breaks down as follows:
Stats: 195
Race: 0
Special Stats: 48
Active Skills: 140
Positive Qualities: 20
Negative Qualities: -50
Resources: 12
Contacts: 6
or 421/750 Karma.

That's a lot of Karma left over.

FWIW -- this is based on using DamienKnights excel sheet, since I am away from books at the moment.
kzt
Do a google search on "auto pistol". Just because the game is written by the actively clueless doesn't mean you have to play along. wink.gif
Clyde
You definitely may need more guns than just pistols. Also, your unarmed is awfully low. You will have a hard time hitting even weak foes unless you completely take them by surprise. Trading in one point of Combat Sense for two points of Attribute Boost Agility will go a long way towards offsetting those weaknesses.
Fyndhal
QUOTE (Clyde @ Dec 31 2008, 09:56 PM) *
You definitely may need more guns than just pistols.

I can see that, though in my experience, pistols and SMGs are the most commonly used weapons in SR. Bigger guns are reserved for special cases -- one would hope! smile.gif

QUOTE
Also, your unarmed is awfully low. You will have a hard time hitting even weak foes unless you completely take them by surprise.

Agreed and on purposed -- Don is someone who does Martial Arts as an exercise until recently. If a skill of 3 is someone who is professionally rated, it'd be hard to justify a higher starting skill.

QUOTE
Trading in one point of Combat Sense for two points of Attribute Boost Agility will go a long way towards offsetting those weaknesses.

I think you're thinking of 3rd Ed costs on this one. Combat Sense is 0.5 per level and...oh, wait, Attribute Boost, not Increased Physical Attribute. That makes sense.
ElFenrir
The skill listing is sometimes...well, I guess it depends on the game. I try to stick by it. But professional is something I guess that someone does for their job; a bodyguard might have a 3, for example. But a 6 Agility linked to all combat skills is good, and even 8 dice in a fistfight against many people isn't bad at all. Really, the character looks very good; bases are covered, useful skillset, specialty covered, he's a hell of a gunslinger with 17 dice after the smartlink, and yeah, for an all-natural adept, I think he'll do just fine.

That being said, I think I agree with the Reaction 5/Body 5 suggestion. As for Karma, yeah...we always use it these days, so I'm sort of used to finding places to stick the points. Usually in more knowledges, contacts, fleshing skills, and the like. This makes me want to retool my old adept a bit-he'd always been all-natural, and I admit, I REALLY want to try to keep him that way.
Fuchs
Looks like a good build for the concept to me.

If it is used for a pen and paper game with reasonably fast advancement I'd probably rethink a few of those specialisations - one could get them far cheaper after a run or two, and use the points to raise a skill or two up front instead.
Mäx
QUOTE (kzt @ Jan 1 2009, 07:54 AM) *
Do a google search on "auto pistol". Just because the game is written by the actively clueless doesn't mean you have to play along. wink.gif

your point?
kzt
QUOTE (Fyndhal @ Dec 31 2008, 11:25 PM) *
I can see that, though in my experience, pistols and SMGs are the most commonly used weapons in SR. Bigger guns are reserved for special cases -- one would hope! smile.gif

I've never had a PC carry an SMG. Pistols all the time, Tasers all the time, Alphas quite often.
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