Dumpshock Forums > Its a Nosferatu Mage!

Starmage21

Jan 2 2009, 05:44 PM

the only blurb I have to add relates to the reason to run the shadows for such a being. consider that I intend to play him as a psychopath with anti-social personality disorder, and his only reason for running the shadows at all is its a convenience considering someone like him has to be "off the radar" anyway.

the BP shuffle was quite difficult, considering 150BPs are gone out the gate paying for the Nosferatu quality. What I want from you guys is to tell me how I can be a better mage, and still keep the nosferatu template.

for your consideration, I present "Typhoid" (his street name)

[ Spoiler ]

Maelstrome

Jan 2 2009, 06:54 PM

do nosferatu not have enhanced physical attributes?

i think your build is solid.
with plenty of room to grow.
i dont see any problems with it. its an overall good character.

vollmond

Jan 2 2009, 07:04 PM

dang it, i thought that was a haiku for a minute...

i think he is good
with plenty of room to grow
i see no problems

Maelstrome

Jan 2 2009, 07:19 PM

i get people saying quite a bit that i talk like a haiku.

Starmage21

Jan 2 2009, 08:51 PM

appreciate the opinions.

MOre please!

KCKitsune

Jan 2 2009, 09:02 PM

QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Jan 2 2009, 03:51 PM)

appreciate the opinions.

MOre please!

Can you take all those Carrier flaws? I know you wanted to make a "Typhoid Gary", but I would think that since he's already "dead" that he can't take those flaws.

ElFenrir

Jan 2 2009, 09:27 PM

QUOTE

do nosferatu not have enhanced physical attributes?

They changed the way they worked between SR3-4. In SR3, if I recall, HMHVV folks added their current Essence to their Physical stats(I could be wrong here). In SR4, they CAN increase them-or their Magic, by burning Essence, in a 2 for 1 deal(so a Nosferatu who sucks 18 essence can pop 12 of it to increase one of his attributes by 6, and i THINK he can split this up among attributes). It probably makes them more playable as PCs.

But he does look good; 150 BPs dropped right off the bat is a pretty hefty sum, and you managed to avoid any 1's in doing it. Seems to be a stronger spellcaster off the bat, but Karma could improve him about any ways.

Muspellsheimr

Jan 2 2009, 09:38 PM

It's impossible to have a Nosferatu with a 1 Attribute (excepting Magic). They receive +1 Str, Agi, Rea, Bod, +2 Cha, Log, Int, Wil, & being Human, +1 Edge.

Infected do not increase their Physical attributes by Essence (at least not in 4th). They can, however, syphon recently drained Essence into a single attribute at a rate of 1 per 2 Essence used. Only a single attribute may be increased this way at any given time, & the increase is temporary.

KCK - Infected are not "dead". They are very much alive. & yes, you can have multiple Carrier qualities.

On topic of the character, you do not need the Human Looking quality, nor can you, by RAW, take it. You already are Human (although a bit gaunt, pale, & bald).

Starmage21

Jan 2 2009, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jan 2 2009, 05:02 PM)

Can you take all those Carrier flaws? I know you wanted to make a "Typhoid Gary", but I would think that since he's already "dead" that he can't take those flaws.

Yeah, by RAW the infected can only make more of themselves. vampires beget only other vampires, not all the other creatures spawned by HMHVV 1. At least for the Nosferatu, it was always that way(except elves could become Nosferatu).

QUOTE

On topic of the character, you do not need the Human Looking quality, nor can you, by RAW, take it. You already are Human (although a bit gaunt, pale, & bald).

Any opinion on where to put those extra 5 BPs?

toturi

Jan 2 2009, 11:15 PM

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jan 3 2009, 05:02 AM)

Can you take all those Carrier flaws? I know you wanted to make a "Typhoid Gary", but I would think that since he's already "dead" that he can't take those flaws.

QUOTE

KCK - Infected are not "dead". They are very much alive. & yes, you can have multiple Carrier qualities.

While you can have multiple Carrier qualities per the description in RC, what constitutes a "strain" is not clearly defined within the text of Carrier itself. However, under Infection In Play, there are 3 RAW strains of HMHVV and to fit both RAW and Canon, I'd say that you can only be a Carrier of these strains.

Muspellsheimr

Jan 2 2009, 11:21 PM

This is actually something I have been intending to ask the developers.

It is not clearly defined, but as written, it seems to imply that Vampires cannot create Banshee's, & you need the Carrier (Banshee) Quality to do so. However, the Carrier quality talks about the strains, of which there are only 3. What makes sense (from the Fluff I have seen, & logic), Vampires could create Banshee's normally, but not Ghouls.

toturi

Jan 2 2009, 11:50 PM

QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Jan 3 2009, 07:21 AM)

This is actually something I have been intending to ask the developers.

It is not clearly defined, but as written, it seems to imply that Vampires cannot create Banshee's, & you need the Carrier (Banshee) Quality to do so. However, the Carrier quality talks about the strains, of which there are only 3. What makes sense (from the Fluff I have seen, & logic), Vampires could create Banshee's normally, but not Ghouls.

The only implication that Carrier might be talking about the sub-strains would be that a character cannot be a Carrier for both Vampire and Nosferatu.

The Jake

Jan 3 2009, 01:13 AM

QUOTE (ElFenrir @ Jan 2 2009, 10:27 PM)

They changed the way they worked between SR3-4. In SR3, if I recall, HMHVV folks added their current Essence to their Physical stats(I could be wrong here). In SR4, they CAN increase them-or their Magic, by burning Essence, in a 2 for 1 deal(so a Nosferatu who sucks 18 essence can pop 12 of it to increase one of his attributes by 6, and i THINK he can split this up among attributes). It probably makes them more playable as PCs.

But he does look good; 150 BPs dropped right off the bat is a pretty hefty sum, and you managed to avoid any 1's in doing it. Seems to be a stronger spellcaster off the bat, but Karma could improve him about any ways.

I noticed that difference too between SR3 and SR4. Is there are page reference this?

- J.

Wanderer

Jan 3 2009, 07:47 AM

It seems a rather good, solid build to me. May he grow strong and wise.

However, I have to remark that the Carrier Flaws seem to derive from a seriously flawed (pun unintended) understanding of the way HMHVV strains work. There are NOT, nor have ever been, separate HMHVV strains to give bansheehood to elves, or wendigodom to orks. It's the same old strain which makes vampires out of humans, golblins out of dwarves, and wendigoes out of orks. Nosferatu, ghoul, and loup-garou strains, however, are separate strains.

This is how it works:

HMHVV-I (vampire strain):
Human -> Vampire
Dwarf -> Goblin
Elf -> Banshee
Ork -> Wendigo
Troll -> Dzoo-no-qua

HMHVV-II (loup-garou strain):
Human -> Loup-garou
Troll -> Fomoraig
Sasquqtch -> Bandersnatch

HMHVV Bruckner-Langer strain (nosferatu strain)
Human -> Nosferatu

HMHVV-III (ghoul strain)
(Meta)human -> ghoul

There are also mentioned to exist some rare ghoul and vampire metavariants (albeit the genetic variant is in the virus, not the host) with regional expression, but I think we may safely ignore them for the purpose of the discussion.

An Infected character may become Carrier for multiple strains. Since only one strain can be ever expressed, the other remain dormant, but may be passed on to others. An Infected character cannot be the carrier for both vampire and nosferatu strains.

Therefore, your character, being a nosferatu, might have the Flaws:

Carrier (HMHVV-II)
Carrier (HMHVV-III)

toturi

Jan 3 2009, 12:22 PM

QUOTE (Wanderer @ Jan 3 2009, 03:47 PM)

It seems a rather good, solid build to me. May he grow strong and wise.

However, I have to remark that the Carrier Flaws seem to derive from a seriously flawed (pun unintended) understanding of the way HMHVV strains work. There are NOT, nor have ever been, separate HMHVV strains to give bansheehood to elves, or wendigodom to orks. It's the same old strain which makes vampires out of humans, golblins out of dwarves, and wendigoes out of orks. Nosferatu, ghoul, and loup-garou strains, however, are separate strains.

This is how it works:

HMHVV-I (vampire strain):
Human -> Vampire
Dwarf -> Goblin
Elf -> Banshee
Ork -> Wendigo
Troll -> Dzoo-no-qua

HMHVV-II (loup-garou strain):
Human -> Loup-garou
Troll -> Fomoraig
Sasquqtch -> Bandersnatch

HMHVV Bruckner-Langer strain (nosferatu strain)
Human -> Nosferatu

HMHVV-III (ghoul strain)
(Meta)human -> ghoul

There are also mentioned to exist some rare ghoul and vampire metavariants (albeit the genetic variant is in the virus, not the host) with regional expression, but I think we may safely ignore them for the purpose of the discussion.

An Infected character may become Carrier for multiple strains. Since only one strain can be ever expressed, the other remain dormant, but may be passed on to others. An Infected character cannot be the carrier for both vampire and nosferatu strains.

Therefore, your character, being a nosferatu, might have the Flaws:

Carrier (HMHVV-II)
Carrier (HMHVV-III)

While I agree with the conclusion that by the rules, a nosferatu could only have Carrier (HMHVV II & III), I am curious where you are getting HMHVV Bruckner-Langer strain from.

Rasumichin

Jan 3 2009, 01:42 PM

QUOTE (toturi @ Jan 3 2009, 01:22 PM)

While I agree with the conclusion that by the rules, a nosferatu could only have Carrier (HMHVV II & III), I am curious where you are getting HMHVV Bruckner-Langer strain from.

Paranormal Animals of Europe.

By SR4 fluff, that would most likely be called Bruckner-Langer syndrome now (similar to the term Krieger strain being replaced by strain III and Krieger's syndrome in 4th ed), caused by a variant of the Ghilani vrykolakiviridae, or HMHVV strain I. Based upon the nomenclature of nosferatu in PAoE, i'd suggest the taxon Ghilani vrykolakivirus caecus.

BTW, i also agree with thew notion that the character could only carry strain II and III besides the strain that created him.
One could think about local variants of strain III, such as the ones responsible for creating sasabonsam or ghaki, but these would also be mutually exclusive.

So being completely Essence-drained by the character would be automatically lethal for a nonhuman, while a human would either die (unlikely unless Edge is burned) or turn into a nosferatu (strain I takes efect one minute after complete drain, so strain II and III would not have time to set on).
All (Meta)humans coming into contact with the character's body fluids without being drained completely would have to fight off strain III, unless they are humans or trolls.
These would have to roll against strain II first, as it takes effect quicker, then they'd have to defend themselves against strain III.
Most likely, all metahumans would receive the carrier qualities for all the unexpressed strains afterwards.
I'm not certain how to handle this when your character would come to close to a sasquatch, as they can only express strain II, though, but the character certainly deserve his street name with these two qualities.

Oh, and besides the carrier issue, it's a solid build, too.

@ The Jake : the rules for increasing attributes temporarily by spending Essence are in the critter section of the BBB IIRC, under the description of the Essence Drain power.

Starmage21

Jan 3 2009, 05:08 PM

I tend to agree with your opinions, but I went with the various carrier strains because Runner's Companion was rather unclear on how the carrier flaw worked. Either way, I have enough points to cut the carrier flaws down to to and take HMHVV 2 and 3.

here's a question: HMHVV 2 and 3 do not require essence drain to infect another successfully. In the case that a victim IS essence drained to zero, I figure that the Nosferatu(Bruckner-Langer) strain of HMHVV 1 would take root, however, what if the victim is NOT drained? All it takes is a scratch and/or transfer of fluids to infect, what do you do to determine infection?

Rasumichin

Jan 3 2009, 06:15 PM

QUOTE (Starmage21 @ Jan 3 2009, 06:08 PM)

here's a question: HMHVV 2 and 3 do not require essence drain to infect another successfully. In the case that a victim IS essence drained to zero, I figure that the Nosferatu(Bruckner-Langer) strain of HMHVV 1 would take root, however, what if the victim is NOT drained? All it takes is a scratch and/or transfer of fluids to infect, what do you do to determine infection?

There's no clear rules for that, but both infections should be easy to diagnose using either Biotech skills or Asensing.
Or, in the case of strain II, just waiting for an hour until the victim collapses and starts growing fur or vestigial gills.^^

In either case, fighting the disease is almost impossible without a very decent magical healer at hand and even then, it's tricky.