I've been exploring the idea of a possession mage for the future, and been poring over the rules, trying to figure how it all works, and if it is workable. I'm slowly piecing it together, but still have questions. Some of these are questions I really don't get. Some are ones I'm pretty sure about, or could make a judgment on, but I'm throwing them out there as long as I'm posting (and maybe it will help out someone else).

1. So I summon a spirit. When does it enter the vessel? Immediately, and it stays there until its services run out (or sunrise/set)? Or does it hang around in astral space until I need it physically, then it does its possession thing?

2. If the latter, does it have to make its possession roll every time it tries?

3. The spirit needs to make a possession test when possessing its summoner? So it's got to roll its force times two versus my Intuition and Willpower? So I really can't get a small spirit to possess me. Unless I enchant myself. Would it be a munchkin move to purposely keep my Intuition low?

4. When someone or something is possessed, it will have Immunity to Normal Weapons. Is the Fx2 added to the item's existing armor to determine whether it can be harmed? I'm guessing that it's not - if an attack is greater than Fx2, then it causes damage, and its armor is the object's armor plus Fx2. Though it will likely be stun damage. Spirits can take stun damage, but objects can't.

5. If the damage were stun damage, and the spirit was possessing an object, would the spirit be hurt?

6. Let's say a force 4 spirit is possessing a car, and that car is forced to make a handling test. Or possessing a drone, and tries to shoot a gun. What's the spirit's base dice pool? F-1, assuming you didn't give the skill to the spirit?



7. Are you telling me I should disassemble a car, enchant the parts - body, chassis, engine(s), drive train - 12 successes with an interval of a day, for each component, then reassemble it before I can have my spirit possess it? No partial enchantments, I assume. Okay, I guess that's not going to happen. Instead of a drone, how about an HMG on a tripod in a coaster wagon? That's only two tests, needing fewer hits.

8. Once a vessel is prepared, does that preparation last indefinitely?



9. So if you banish a possessing spirit, it only means that it can't repossess that vessel right away? But banishing reduces a spirit's services, so this must be talking about free spirits or something? Or is this an alternate banishing? If it's kicked out of its vessel, can you then banish it from astral space?

It possesses someone as soon as you order it to or it needs to in order to affect the physical plane with a power, basically it does so in all the situations a materializing spirit would materialize. It's not automatic.


Not sure I understand the question correctly. Yes, the spirit has to make a possession roll every time it possesses someone. Pretty straightforward so I'm not sure that's the answer you sought...


It needs to roll, yes. Keep in mind that the summoner itself counts as a prepared vessel, giving the spirit +6 dice on the roll.


Correct, only the force*2 part of the armor is hardened. If the person/object was armored already that armor is added to a damage resistance roll but doesn't become magically hardened.
And yes, spirits can take stun damage (but not become unconcious, they're disrupted on a full damage track), while objects can't (don't think too hard about that one or you'll realize that you can't destroy a glass with your hand per RAW as you're only doing stun...).


Good question. There's nothing in the books to specify one way or the other, AFAIK. I' have the spirit be unharmed as long as the vessel isn't harmed, though.


Technically they wouldn't even be allowed to roll at all (and thus, can't move), as critters (including spirits) are considered unaware in all skills they don't have and thus can't even default (ah, the joys of supplemental books written without the author taking a look at the core book first). It's saner to assume it works the way you described it, though.


That's the way it works, although it is quite excessive. I'd advise just summoning a stronger ghost that doesn't need the bonus dice for a prepared vessel.


No rule to the contrary and I see no reason to restrict the time.


I've never heard of or seen a character actually having banishing, as it's that bad, so I don't know this one. I assume you'd really have to banish it twice, making the skill even less useful than it is already. Just use a stunbolt instead.

Edit: Damn! Came in second.



It behaves as any summoned spirit until the summoner wishes it to enter the physical plane, at which point it must attempt to possess a vessel.


Yes.


The summoner is considered to be a prepared vessel, so the spirit gets +6 to its dice pool. "Munchkin" is a relative term. How important is Intuition to the PC? Like for instance for Initiative?


The ItNW first determines whether the attack can do damage. If the attack gets through, a living vessel receives F X 2 as additional armor (but AP applies to both this new armor and to the original armor, so in effect applies twice). An object increases its armor by the spirit's Force. Stun vs. Physical damage doesn't matter to an object. Both a fist and a brick can break a door down.


If the spirit is operating the car, then apply defaulting as normal. If another character is driving, his stats apply to the skill test.


This is the GM's decision, but cars usually are accepted as being a single unit for possession and vessel preparation. Now, if you wanted to have the spirit possess a whole battleship, you would probably have a problem.


Yes.


Yes, the services are reduced to zero, and the spirit is banished, but there can be an attempt made to re-summon the spirit before it departs. If that summoning succeeds, then it is restricted from re-entering the vessel from which it was just banished.

Peter

Thanks guys!

1, 2. That's what I thought. Thanks.

3. "the summoner itself counts as a prepared vessel." Missed that one. Thanks.

4. Seems pretty straightforward. I guess I just had to say it out loud to figure it out.

5. I think I'll go with objects (and therefore the spirit) taking stun damage.

6. Spirits can't default? I guess that makes sense. Sort of. Maybe. This means a spirit has absolutely no chance of shooting someone with its gun.

7. "I'd advise just summoning a stronger ghost that doesn't need the bonus dice for a prepared vessel." Later, I realized that the spirit only has to beat the object resistance. I thought it was obj-res times 2. I thought I was shooting for 8, on a car.

8. I would say it wears off, but over decades or centuries.

9. So... the banishing succeeds, but first the spirit is booted to astral space, and then it departs to its home plane, if nobody takes any further action. And even if they manage to keep it around, it needs a new vessel. Makes sense, I guess.

About 3. If magician is willingly possessed, does the spirit roll at all?
Our group has always ruled that when character lets her/himself to be possessed, especially by his/her own spirit, it is automatic success.
Because you order spirit to posses you, you want to be possessed. You want it, so no resisting.
Can't remember is this RAW.

@Ard3

The spirit has to roll a Possession Test even for the summoner.

@wind_in_the_stones

There is a bit of a contradiction in the core books (No!) about what a possessing spirit can do.

In SR4, p. 285 it says any critter without a skill is considered unaware, and cannot default for that skill.

In SM p. 102-103, in the sidebar, it says a possession spirit can animate an object to do what the object can normally do, and specifically mentions being able to fire a gun, though not aim it.

The only way to rationalize these two references is to assume that possession melds the spirit with the device and allows it to animate it in a way different from using the device externally. Kinda weak, I know.

Of course, if you summon a spirit with the appropriate skill, then there is no problem.

Peter

Logically speaking, one can say that a possessing spirit can fire a gun because it can pull the trigger. It can also move the gun if a mechanism exists for that, such as it being in a turret, but such a spirit can't actually make a roll. I can order my spirit to suppress a corridor, and the sec guards will run for cover, but if any of them are actually caught out there, apparently they cannot be hurt.

Personally, I will urge a house-rule that critters with Sapience can default.

And yes, grant pertinent skills to your summoned spirits whenever possible.

I like the Sapience idea.

Peter

At the OP. Download/Purchase Digital Grimoire. There are more Possession rules and clarifications there. It also has a rundown on Possessing a person/object.

Good to know. Thanks.